Experiences on WineBid

[slateshalehead]

Does anyone here (likely US forum members) have experience buying from WineBid.com? There's currently a number of VPs from my birth year ('94) that I might want to pick up as a horizontal tasting for a special occasion in the future. I'm new to wine auctions, and the 17% buyers premium plus shipping is slightly off-putting.

As a side note, WineBid has a number of VPs from the 1990s right now, all "obtained by inheritance" - it's a shame they didn't reach out on a site like this to learn about them, or at least sell them!

[Glenn E.]

I've purchased from WineBid many times, and have never had a problem. 17% BP is pretty normal in the US.

As with any auction site, you have to be prudent. They're pretty responsive if you ask questions or want pictures. I even went ahead and purchased some "dodgey" bottles from them once after asking questions and getting pictures, and they've turned out to be excellent value for the money.

[Andy Velebil]

What Glenn has said. Plus...

In the past I've had issues with heat damaged bottles from them. They were not very good at screening bottles they took to sell. They have a new CEO/President/whatever his title is that has been doing a very good job of improving the company. I don't use them a lot as their starting bids, plus BP, plus tax are usually more than retail. So be aware of the add-in prices.

That said, I have found some good deals from time to time. The plus is they will hold until cooler weather for shipping and they will consolidate your bottles so you can save on shipping costs.

[uncle tom]

There's currently a number of VPs from my birth year ('94) that I might want to pick up as a horizontal tasting for a special occasion in the future.

If only I had started buying port in volume when I was 26.. - although I suppose, buying a house was a bit more important then..

Beware of keeping bottles for 'special occasions' though. I have countless times spied, and sometimes bought, sad little stashes of bottles at auction that clearly came from a deceased's house clearance. Good bottles (but in the case of table wines, often past their best) set aside for a special occasion - that never arrived..

[slateshalehead]

There's currently a number of VPs from my birth year ('94) that I might want to pick up as a horizontal tasting for a special occasion in the future.

If only I had started buying port in volume when I was 26.. - although I suppose, buying a house was a bit more important then..

Beware of keeping bottles for 'special occasions' though. I have countless times spied, and sometimes bought, sad little stashes of bottles at auction that clearly came from a deceased's house clearance. Good bottles (but in the case of table wines, often past their best) set aside for a special occasion - that never arrived..

Buying a house is also in the cards, don't you worry about that!

I haven't started buying in volume yet (I don't really know how to do this in the US yet, plus I'm waiting for the house so I have space to lay down!) - the issue I'm facing now is whether it's worth money now to buy individual bottles of the newest vintages at retail when the 1990s vintages at retail sell for sometimes half the price of the 2016s.

[uncle tom]

the issue I'm facing now is whether it's worth money now to buy individual bottles of the newest vintages at retail when the 1990s vintages at retail sell for sometimes half the price of the 2016s.

This is a weird thing that goes back about forty years now. VP at release goes either nowhere in price or actually falls in value until it approaches the age of about 20. If you factor in storage and insurance costs, it's not a clever investment.

After the age of 20 the price eases up, but not very rapidly. It then surges as it approaches 40, plateaus for a few years before surging again as it approaches 50. A further surge takes place at 60.

Strategically, provided the price is right, the best vintage to buy right now is '83

[Andy Velebil]

the issue I'm facing now is whether it's worth money now to buy individual bottles of the newest vintages at retail when the 1990s vintages at retail sell for sometimes half the price of the 2016s.

This is a weird thing that goes back about forty years now. VP at release goes either nowhere in price or actually falls in value until it approaches the age of about 20. If you factor in storage and insurance costs, it's not a clever investment.

After the age of 20 the price eases up, but not very rapidly. It then surges as it approaches 40, plateaus for a few years before surging again as it approaches 50. A further surge takes place at 60.

Strategically, provided the price is right, the best vintage to buy right now is '83

However this most likely won’t be the case any longer. With the current massive reductions in volume being made there won’t be the large supply available 20+ years from now. So while currently you can get 20-30 year old VP for the same price as current releases, I don’t see that continuing going forward.

[uncle tom]

However this most likely won’t be the case any longer. With the current massive reductions in volume being made there won’t be the large supply available 20+ years from now. So while currently you can get 20-30 year old VP for the same price as current releases, I don’t see that continuing going forward.

So far there's little sign of this market starvation strategy bearing fruit. The situation is not as dire as it once was, but release pricing continues to run ahead of the market.

I think it's a very counter-productive strategy. It's making the small producers more prominent in the market place, and the maths doesn't stack up. Selling three times the volume of VP at half the price would be both easier and more profitable.

[winesecretary]

WineBid: alas sadly not really available to us Brits, although I would welcome them extending their platform over here, some of the UK auction house commissions are absolutely confiscatory. About 15 years ago, I once bought some really rare madeira from Winebid in the US, and by the time the UK customs demand for duty actually got to me, UK customs had already shipped it back to the USA for non-payment. WineBid were really extremely good about sorting that out.

Possibly one for a new topic. Since Tom has got on to market starvation strategy - has this ever been confirmed as an actual thing, as opposed possibly to a correlation arising from a change of approach?

Since the 2007 port vintage, which is the first one I tasted EP, I have bought EP only those ports that absolutely wowed me on first tasting. I am happy to have physical possession of wines which I can look forward with happy anticipation to drinking - so I am not bothered whether the price goes up (which is good, because most of it hasn't gone up). Accordingly, I am unbothered/unaffected by market starvation strategy in respect of those wines.

Other ports, especially earlier vintages, it is a question of picking up cases, half cases, and bottles at auction or retail when I have tasted it and thought 'wow, that's good, I need me some more of that'. I particularly like horizontal tastings for this reason- no way I would have bought QDLR 1991 without the 1991 horizontal.

But, as I say: if market starvation strategy really exists. I have yet to collar a port producer over drinks and squeeze the answer out of him, but it seems to me more a quality driven phenomenon - as though port producers are now happier (and able) to produce 1,000-5,000 cases of very good VP at £500/doz, but also are prepared to produce that, sometimes very much smaller, volume whenever the wine merits it (which could be 4 or 5 times a decade); rather than the old way of producing 5,000 - 8,000 cases of good port at £350/doz 3 times a decade. If there is a business reason, it might be as simple as making cashflow more predictable.

[slateshalehead]

What Glenn has said. Plus...

In the past I've had issues with heat damaged bottles from them. They were not very good at screening bottles they took to sell. They have a new CEO/President/whatever his title is that has been doing a very good job of improving the company. I don't use them a lot as their starting bids, plus BP, plus tax are usually more than retail. So be aware of the add-in prices.

That said, I have found some good deals from time to time. The plus is they will hold until cooler weather for shipping and they will consolidate your bottles so you can save on shipping costs.

Definitely hear you on the price versus retail. The one benefit of WineBid for me is that they will ship to Pennsylvania, which most retailers will not do. Until PA becomes less restrictive, it is difficult for me to locate VPs - the state stores generally mark them up 10%-20% over "retail" and will only have a few bottles in a few select stores across the state.

[slateshalehead]

I'd like to hear more on people's thoughts about the market starvation strategy, perhaps in a different thread. From what I've read here and elsewhere, I'm still not entirely clear as to the motivations. It definitely is curious and somewhat frustrating that newer vintages are more expensive than older ones of likely similar quality, especially considering the back-to-back-to-back declarations and the positive remarks coming out about the 2019 and 2002 harvests. There's also the question of how popular VP will be in a decade or two. I'm definitely not in it for the sake of investment (at this point at least), but I do see the sense of securing harder-to-find bottles at lower prices now while they still pop up pretty frequently