Latest buy

Anything to do with Port.
User avatar
uncle tom
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3150
Joined: 23:43 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Near Saffron Walden, England

Re: Latest buy

Post by uncle tom » 17:42 Wed 07 Oct 2020

It’s normal, They’re all filled like that. Even the 20 yr Graham’s Jeroboams are filled the same.
Worth a grumble though - it doesn't look very good..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

nac
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 517
Joined: 14:21 Fri 16 Dec 2016
Location: Kent & London
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by nac » 19:01 Wed 07 Oct 2020

uncle tom wrote:
17:42 Wed 07 Oct 2020
It’s normal, They’re all filled like that. Even the 20 yr Graham’s Jeroboams are filled the same.
Worth a grumble though - it doesn't look very good..
I have grumbled to C&B and they've gone away to speak to Symingtons.
I agree - does look a bit rubbish.

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12778
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Latest buy

Post by AHB » 20:02 Wed 07 Oct 2020

You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

Christopher
Quinta do Noval LBV
Posts: 213
Joined: 14:24 Thu 17 Jan 2008
Location: London

Re: Latest buy

Post by Christopher » 20:51 Wed 07 Oct 2020

The Graham 1990 is absolutely superb, I have had a couple of bottles. Lucky you to get a large format bottle!
Congratulations!
I myself have just acquired as a latest buy a Warre 1920

User avatar
JacobH
Dow 1980
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by JacobH » 21:26 Wed 07 Oct 2020

I think AHB Is right. We just aren’t used to seeing the big gap because most large format wines have opaque bottles. All the photos of the 4.5l Graham 10YO tawny look the same or worse. I agree it’s not the best look, though: a needle through the cork to allow a higher fill level without over-pressurising the bottle would be a much better idea, I think.

Look at this selection of Provence rosé for another example. The Methuselah looks rubbish!
external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpeg
external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpeg (27.38 KiB) Viewed 1330 times
Image

nac
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 517
Joined: 14:21 Fri 16 Dec 2016
Location: Kent & London
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by nac » 21:50 Wed 07 Oct 2020

AHB wrote:
20:02 Wed 07 Oct 2020
You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.
Good point, and as my 450cl of the 10yo is the same I suspect you’re right.
Jacob makes an equally good point about large bottles generally being opaque.
Will be interesting to see what response I get back via C&B.

Justin K
Fonseca LBV
Posts: 104
Joined: 19:19 Mon 15 Dec 2008

Re: Latest buy

Post by Justin K » 22:15 Wed 07 Oct 2020

Sandeman 1927 at auction.

User avatar
uncle tom
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3150
Joined: 23:43 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Near Saffron Walden, England

Re: Latest buy

Post by uncle tom » 16:49 Sat 10 Oct 2020

12 x Churchill 2005 unfiltered LBV

Ex. lodge, they threw in delivery to the UK and a rather tasteful corkscrew FOC

Their online ordering platform failed, but when I emailed to point this out, they replied promptly - and on a Sunday!
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12778
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Latest buy

Post by AHB » 17:50 Sat 10 Oct 2020

uncle tom wrote:
16:49 Sat 10 Oct 2020
12 x Churchill 2005 unfiltered LBV

Ex. lodge, they threw in delivery to the UK and a rather tasteful corkscrew FOC

Their online ordering platform failed, but when I emailed to point this out, they replied promptly - and on a Sunday!
Very interesting. I've just bought a bottle of the 2005 VP to open for the 67 Pall Mall Tasting. I should have thought to buy a bottle of the 2005 LBV to taste alongside it. When I compared the Quevedo 2005 VP and LBVs as part of the Quevedo tasting, I was very interested in the differences I found.
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

nac
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 517
Joined: 14:21 Fri 16 Dec 2016
Location: Kent & London
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by nac » 13:11 Fri 16 Oct 2020

nac wrote:
21:50 Wed 07 Oct 2020
AHB wrote:
20:02 Wed 07 Oct 2020
You've got to leave enough space for the air to compress adequately without when the cork goes in, but not leave too little space so as to over-compress the air gap and have the cork pop out. Having a leaking jeroboam would look even more rubbish.

If there are 4.5 litres in the bottle, I'd be happy enough.
Good point, and as my 450cl of the 10yo is the same I suspect you’re right.
Jacob makes an equally good point about large bottles generally being opaque.
Will be interesting to see what response I get back via C&B.
Got a response back via C&B (see below). Last statement is slightly wrong - C&B had three of these that went to private customers...

Graham90SHreply.JPG
Graham90SHreply.JPG (55.22 KiB) Viewed 1221 times

User avatar
JacobH
Dow 1980
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by JacobH » 15:52 Fri 16 Oct 2020

nac wrote:
13:11 Fri 16 Oct 2020
Got a response back via C&B (see below). Last statement is slightly wrong - C&B had three of these that went to private customers...
I recently went to a restaurant in the West End that had a drinks trolley that was topped by a decanting cradle containing a 4.5l bottle of one of the tawnies. I know that decanting cradles are not looked on favourable by most serious wine drinkers but I thought it was quite a fun thing for one of these giant bottles and would also (since the bottle was at an angle) avoid the low-fill-level issue, even when full...
Image

Glenn E.
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3556
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Latest buy

Post by Glenn E. » 23:06 Fri 16 Oct 2020

There are 3 currently available online via wine-searcher, so "exclusive to the on trade" must not mean what they think it means. :lol:

If they weren't $800 - $1000 and would then require shipping to the US, I'd get one. But that's too steep for me for a 30-year old tawny.
Glenn Elliott

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2771
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by Andy Velebil » 23:21 Fri 16 Oct 2020

I was gonna buy one of those 4.5l of their 20 yr tawny for our new house warming party. Figured it would be super cool to pour for guests. Then the Covid drama hit 2-days after we moved in. No party, no bottle, no fun :(

Glenn E.
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3556
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Latest buy

Post by Glenn E. » 19:28 Sat 17 Oct 2020

Andy Velebil wrote:
23:21 Fri 16 Oct 2020
I was gonna buy one of those 4.5l of their 20 yr tawny for our new house warming party. Figured it would be super cool to pour for guests. Then the Covid drama hit 2-days after we moved in. No party, no bottle, no fun :(
I'd have been there for that! :CC3333:
Glenn Elliott

winesecretary
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 538
Joined: 15:35 Mon 13 May 2019

Re: Latest buy

Post by winesecretary » 19:24 Tue 10 Nov 2020

3 x Vesuvio 1992
3 x Niepoort 1983
3 x Smith Woodhouse 1980

These are three of my 'been hanging on to see if I could pick them up at auction' ports but I had a good result on something work-related so bought some port at retail to celebrate.

User avatar
hadge
Fonseca Bin 27
Posts: 56
Joined: 20:08 Thu 17 May 2018
Location: London

Re: Latest buy

Post by hadge » 23:28 Wed 18 Nov 2020

arrived a couple of days ago from Aldi, with a few LBV's
Fletchers 10 year old 4.5l bottle.jpg
Fletchers 10 year old 4.5l bottle.jpg (55.25 KiB) Viewed 359 times

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12778
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Latest buy

Post by AHB » 18:55 Fri 20 Nov 2020

hadge wrote:
23:28 Wed 18 Nov 2020
arrived a couple of days ago from Aldi, with a few LBV's

Fletchers 10 year old 4.5l bottle.jpg
I'm very disappointed you didn't buy a six-pack of the 4.5litre bottles Harry!

Nice looking bottle and a box which my wife would be trying to convert into some sort of bee home before I'd managed to get the bottle out.
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

User avatar
JacobH
Dow 1980
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by JacobH » 12:13 Sun 22 Nov 2020

I’m interested in the history of these tawnies. As discussed above, they are made by Barão de Vilar which was the company set up by the van Zeller family in the mid-to-late 1990s after they sold Quinta do Noval to AXA. I wonder if it is their standard blend since the oddly-shaped decanters are also available under the BdV name and, also, as “Maynard’s Port”, too.

(Incidentally, whilst “Maynard’s” seems to be an alternative name from BdV, named after a family member, and is apparently also used for both VP and organic VP, I wonder if “Fletcher’s” is owned by Aldi since, back in 2002 it was made by Feist (RIP)?)

All of this seems a bit modern for them to be churning out really cheap 40-year-old tawnies.

As far as I can tell, there are two other Barão de Vilar brands: Palmer and Feuerheed. Palmer seems really new and although they have produced some Vintage Port its main offerings are a whole stack of colheitas, including some ancient ones, all of which seem quite competitively priced. Feuerheed is, of course, long established but there is very little information about whether it is more than a brand name online.

I suppose they may be buying the odd pipe here and there, but I would have thought that would not be consummate with having stocks to allow them to sell them so cheaply. Were they therefore bought wholesale from another shipper? Or could they be ex Quinta do Noval and stayed with the van Zeller family after the sale of the vineyard (perhaps as a family reserve rather than a company stock)?

I guess only the van Zellers might have the answer, but that never stopped speculation in the past...
Image

User avatar
Doggett
Warre’s Otima 20 year old Tawny
Posts: 734
Joined: 17:40 Sun 20 Sep 2015
Location: Weymouth
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by Doggett » 13:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020

Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.

User avatar
JacobH
Dow 1980
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by JacobH » 14:03 Sun 22 Nov 2020

Doggett wrote:
13:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020
Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.
Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).
Image

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2771
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by Andy Velebil » 15:49 Sun 22 Nov 2020

JacobH wrote:
Doggett wrote:
13:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020
Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.
Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).
Feist is imported and distributed by Sogevinus’ import arm here in the states. Would lead me to believe it’s owned by Sogevinus.

User avatar
Doggett
Warre’s Otima 20 year old Tawny
Posts: 734
Joined: 17:40 Sun 20 Sep 2015
Location: Weymouth
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by Doggett » 18:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020

It must be historical then, as the reason I mention it is that I was told by a Van Zeller that Feist was one of the brands they owned. I had mistakenly presumed currently, but historically would make more sense within the context of the conversation IIRC

User avatar
JacobH
Dow 1980
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Latest buy

Post by JacobH » 17:40 Mon 23 Nov 2020

Andy Velebil wrote:
15:49 Sun 22 Nov 2020
JacobH wrote:
Doggett wrote:
13:59 Sun 22 Nov 2020
Feist is also either owned or was owned by BdV as far as I am aware.
Is that a recent development? VintagePort.se says it was owned by Barros since the 1950s and then became part of Sogevinus in 2006 (presumably when they also bought Barros).
Feist is imported and distributed by Sogevinus’ import arm here in the states. Would lead me to believe it’s owned by Sogevinus.
I didn’t realise that any of it was still produced. It’s not listed on the Sogevinus website. Perhaps it’s only sold in the states?
Image

Glenn E.
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3556
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Latest buy

Post by Glenn E. » 18:21 Mon 23 Nov 2020

We visited BdV on both the 2018 and 2019 Port Harvest Tours, the former in VNdG and the latter in the Douro Superior. Much of this was explained to us on those visits, but unfortunately I didn't take notes on the history (only the wines) so only have memories.

Aside from BdV itself, Maynard's and Palmer are their 2 main brands now, as I recall. IIRC Palmer is intended to be somewhat more prestigious while Maynard's is intended to be their mainstream brand. But looking through my notes and scores I do not detect any particular differences in either product produced or quality of same.

The one interesting note is that Alvaro let us taste something he called a VVVV which he said (at that time) was going to be released mostly unchanged as a Palmer 40 Year Old. It isn't a BdV wine - it's something they purchased. It is much older that 40 years old, but its profile will fit the category nicely.
Glenn Elliott

Glenn E.
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3556
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Latest buy

Post by Glenn E. » 18:26 Mon 23 Nov 2020

Since I'm here, I just managed to pick up (from auction):

12 x 1985 Smith Woodhouse ($52.50 ea)
2 x 1987 Taylor Vargellas ($93.50 ea)
1 x 1966 Graham ($210)

All good prices for the US (buyer's premium is included above), but probably nothing to brag about in the UK. I've been trying to find TV87 for 10 years since that's our anniversary year, and this is the first time I've been able to actually win.
Glenn Elliott

Post Reply