ThePortForum.com

[Andy Velebil Email · WWW]

I haven't read Suckling's reviews, but lets just say IMO he's a little high on a few of them.

[Axel P Email · WWW]

I tasted a Royal Oporto sample yesterday, which showed more on the elegant than on the massive-tannic style. Extremely well done though.

Axel

[JacobH Email · WWW]

- Taylors will be making mixed cases available through their agents, containing 2 bottles Croft, 2 Fonseca and 2 Taylor. This was being pitched at the gift market but I pointed out that this was also perfect for the poor modern consumer forced to use offsite storage where the storage company would only hold unbroken and unmixed cases. Perfect for having balanced drinking by the case in 20 years time.

I think that's a great idea for any poor modern consumer, even if he or she is storing them onsite. There's no way that I'll be buying 6 of each of those ports on release, but I might be tempted to buy something like this so that I can have a nice selection available without the commitment of half a case of each. It would be nice to see such a thing from Symington, too. Perhaps one bottle of each of their houses, plus a bottle of this Vesuvio Cristal?

I could see it also working for those who drink a lot of wine but not a lot of Port. They might like a selection of Vintage Port without having to acquire a case of one particular brand.

[Axel P Email · WWW]

I haven't read Suckling's reviews, but lets just say IMO he's a little high on a few of them.

I agree, Andy

Axel

[g-man WWW]

Although unconfirmed I was told that I would get a strong support from Noval for my german VP tasting next year. I guess that should mean something, but nothing official yet.

My understanding is that they will declare Noval and Silval but Nacional is not yet decided.

mr. suckling has said that Christian Seely has confimed that no Nacional will be declared this year.

[Andy Velebil Email · WWW]

I haven't read Suckling's reviews, but lets just say IMO he's a little high on a few of them.

I agree, Andy

Axel

Yes, it appears from his article that he tasted these only once each...a "snap shop" tasting if you will. Hard to do a snap shot tasting of such young VP. You can get a broad feeling, but they can change dramatically over 2-3 days, sometimes better, sometimes not. The Croft is one I'll mention that started out a little slow but totally morphed by day 2 and was even better at day 3. It's also hard as many are still in tank and not yet bottled, so there can be some "tanky" notes that you have overlook as those will go away once they are bottled and settle down.

[g-man WWW]

I haven't read Suckling's reviews, but lets just say IMO he's a little high on a few of them.

I agree, Andy

Axel

Yes, it appears from his article that he tasted these only once each...a "snap shop" tasting if you will. Hard to do a snap shot tasting of such young VP. You can get a broad feeling, but they can change dramatically over 2-3 days, sometimes better, sometimes not. The Croft is one I'll mention that started out a little slow but totally morphed by day 2 and was even better at day 3. It's also hard as many are still in tank and not yet bottled, so there can be some "tanky" notes that you have overlook as those will go away once they are bottled and settle down.

to be fair tho, suckling has done this as a full time profession for years. Judging wines from the barrels and sitting down to do 50-100 wines at a time.
I give him the benefit of the doubt as it is his craft and he seems pretty good at it.

[Andy Velebil Email · WWW]

G-man,
Not talking bad about him in any way, I totally respect his Port palate. But for anyone, experienced or not, tasting Vintage Port cask samples is not easy at all. Even Suckling admits to that in his article. It's can be very hard or misleading to try these in only one short window. Generally most reviewers in this setting only spend less than 5 minutes per Port evaluating it. Not a lot of time to really get a sense of where it may or may not go. Still useful? Yes, but can often be very misleading. I used the Croft as an example earlier and it was a perfect example to highlight this. The first day I had it it was tight, yet I could tell something was there, but it wasn't giving up a lot. On days 2 and 3 it blossomed into this awesome VP. That's what I'm talking about, and that one example highlights some potential pit falls with snap shot tastings.

Having had more time to read through Suckling's TN's, there are some I agree with and some i don't, which is to be expected. I will defer to others who've said this....wait until you can read several reviews on these before determining which you want to spend your money on. Taking only one persons point of view may turn out to be the wrong choice, regardless of who the reviewer may be.

[RonnieRoots WWW]

I haven't read Suckling's reviews, but lets just say IMO he's a little high on a few of them.

I agree, Andy

Axel

Yes, it appears from his article that he tasted these only once each...a "snap shop" tasting if you will. Hard to do a snap shot tasting of such young VP. You can get a broad feeling, but they can change dramatically over 2-3 days, sometimes better, sometimes not. The Croft is one I'll mention that started out a little slow but totally morphed by day 2 and was even better at day 3. It's also hard as many are still in tank and not yet bottled, so there can be some "tanky" notes that you have overlook as those will go away once they are bottled and settle down.

to be fair tho, suckling has done this as a full time profession for years. Judging wines from the barrels and sitting down to do 50-100 wines at a time.
I give him the benefit of the doubt as it is his craft and he seems pretty good at it.

Amen. Suckling does a very good job at Vintage Port. My only wish would be that he would be able to give the subject of port more attention in WS. Andy's comment really doesn't do Mr. Suckling's experience and tasting skills justice.

[Andy Velebil Email · WWW]

Understand I am not knocking Suckling at all, I completely respect his Port palate and his experience, so you need to get that out of your heads and stop trying to create something that isn't there. I've often looked to his scores for my own use in selecting a Port that I've not had before, so I do trust him. What you need to understand though is that a snap shot tasting of ANY VP cask sample can be misleading at times...FOR ANY REVIEWER, me included. Until you've had the opportunity to evaluate cask samples this may seem strange. But ask anyone here who's done so and they will tell you how hard it is no matter what your experience, especially when you've only been able spent a few minutes with a cask sample. Look at Julian's notes, even he states he isn't sure how to take notes on them...here is his own words

I can’t do tasting notes of cask samples. Both because I lack the experience of them, and because palate exhaustion set in after approximately one sample.

I know Julian, he has a great palate, he and I have tasted cask samples together, yet even he states how hard it is to review them. So imagine spending probably less than 5 minutes a glass with this type of wine. That's a small window for a wine that is destined to last for 30+ years no matter what you're experience is.

Check out the Wine Advocate forum (Squires Forum) and Neal Martins take on them. Some of the scores are similar and some are very different than Sucklings...so is he wrong and Suckling right? No way, but each had only a snap shot tasting of them so that is to be expected. Just as some of my notes will be different from theirs. But at least for some of them I had extended tasting experiences with them and saw what changes occurred. Some of my notes and scores also changed as a result of extented tastings with them.

Matter of fact lets look at it this way. If I popped a top notch 1970 XYZ Vintage Port, had one small glass right when it was opened, then wrote that this VP was hot, disjointed, and not very good. Everyone would have a melt down and say something like "of course it didn't show well, you should have decanted it for X amount of hours first and seen it's true potential." Same goes here! Instead everyone is running around like Suckling's notes are king just because he was the first to put them on paper (or computer ). Again, not saying they are wrong at all...just take them and any other snap shot tasting for what they are, a quick overview of a wine that may or may not get substantially better with time.

[jdaw1]

I know Julian, he has a great palate,

I also know Julian, and he doesn’t.

But what you say is plausible: five minutes per port for dozens of ports would be difficult with mature soft port—impossible to do well with such youngsters.

[g-man WWW]

I know Julian, he has a great palate,

I also know Julian, and he doesn’t.

But what you say is plausible: five minutes per port for dozens of ports would be difficult with mature soft port—impossible to do well with such youngsters.

I too have seen Julian's Palate and it is quite formidable when it comes to putting down a portly amount of port!

[Andy Velebil Email · WWW]

I know Julian, he has a great palate,

I also know Julian, and he doesn’t.

In that case please send all your bottles to me, I will drink them and let you know how they were

[Axel P Email · WWW]

Hey Derek,

arent No 27 and 35 the same or is there really a Romaniera???

Axel

[DRT]

arent No 27 and 35 the same or is there really a Romaniera???

Thanks, Axel. Now fixed

[jdaw1]

37. Ramos Pinto
38. Ramos Pinot Quinta de Ervamoira

Are we going to concern ourselves with the fact that Ramos Pinto is actually Ramos-Pinto?

(Politely pretending not to notice the other typo.)

[Portman Email]

Besides Suckling and Parker, which other wine critics are worth listening to about Port? Generally I like to read multiple notes on a wine, but unfortunately here in the States Suckling and Parker pretty much corner the market. Stephen Tanzer does a good job with other areas but I dont believe I've ever come across a port note from him. Who else is there? Michael Broadbent? Jancis Robinson? What do you guys use in the UK or those of you elsewhere in Europe?

[jdaw1]

Alex Bridgeman. He’s not speedy about posting online, but when he does, he is thorough.

[Glenn E.]

Besides Suckling and Parker, which other wine critics are worth listening to about Port?

Suckling is good, but I'm not sure I'd say that Parker is worth listening to about Port. I'd easily place Michael Broadbent above Parker when it comes to Port.

I'll second JDAW's recommendation of AHB. Alex's notes are thorough, readable, and spot on.

[AHB]

I am deeply flattered, but I would also recommend Roy's notes. I always find them useful.

Derek and I will post notes on the 2007 ports we've tasted, but we are tasting each of them over a 4 day period to allow them to develop properly. Notes will probably start to appear in a couple of weeks - but I will pop a couple of snapshot tastings of Taylor Fladgate wines in the TN database tonight.

Alex

[ajfeather]

I am deeply flattered, but I would also recommend Roy's notes. I always find them useful.

Derek and I will post notes on the 2007 ports we've tasted, but we are tasting each of them over a 4 day period to allow them to develop properly. Notes will probably start to appear in a couple of weeks - but I will pop a couple of snapshot tastings of Taylor Fladgate wines in the TN database tonight.

Alex

Thank you sir, I was thinking just the same about your notes...very informative!

[Axel P Email · WWW]

I like Mayson a lot, too, but havent heard anything from him about the 07s

Axel

[Axel P Email · WWW]

So I guess Vesuvio Capella should be included, too.

Axel

[jdaw1]

Cappella added; Ramos-Pinto hyphens added.

[Axel P Email · WWW]

Quinta do Infantado is declaring, too.

Axel