Guess the year
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Guess the year
I am taking the liberty of copying the harvest report of a past vintage from The Vintage Port Site..
Viticultural and Weather Conditions
Early September was wet and cool, but that cleared off by the time picking started on the 17th in the Rio Torto, and Bomfim on the 20th. Graduations were a little low and producers wondered if they hadn’t started too early, but wet weather set in on 1st October for almost a week, so after all it was a good decision, as the best quintas had been fully harvested before then. Harvest weather generally ideal, fine sunny days and cool nights.
Winemaker's Overview
Colour, flavour and ‘nose’ of the finest musts was good and with cool fermentations promises well for the best wines which will certainly be very well balanced. Throughout the Douro grapes were healthy with no traces of podre (rot)! very sound wines have been made and some could well prove to be very good indeed.
..without trawling through - have a guess as to which vintage this was - the answer might surprise you..
Tom
Viticultural and Weather Conditions
Early September was wet and cool, but that cleared off by the time picking started on the 17th in the Rio Torto, and Bomfim on the 20th. Graduations were a little low and producers wondered if they hadn’t started too early, but wet weather set in on 1st October for almost a week, so after all it was a good decision, as the best quintas had been fully harvested before then. Harvest weather generally ideal, fine sunny days and cool nights.
Winemaker's Overview
Colour, flavour and ‘nose’ of the finest musts was good and with cool fermentations promises well for the best wines which will certainly be very well balanced. Throughout the Douro grapes were healthy with no traces of podre (rot)! very sound wines have been made and some could well prove to be very good indeed.
..without trawling through - have a guess as to which vintage this was - the answer might surprise you..
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: Guess the year
hmm
Due to the lack of "hot" or scorching heat that I associate with ripeness and what sounds like alot of wetness, I'd say this was probably a weaker / non declared year.
Since this is bonfim, we can just look at Dow's
So I'd be willing to say that we can rule out all major vintage declarations from dow.
as my weather knowledge of port didn't really start until 2000,
the only wet cool september I recall was in 2004 as the past few vintages I've read nothing but hot 30C weather.
even hazarding a guess back the 90s, removing the declared vintages
91/92, 94, 97 leaves me with 93, 95, 96, 98, 99
the 95s was suppose to be great quality too so I'll leave that off the list which leaves me with 93, 96, 98, 99 as potentials for the 90s.
93 was just so terrible that I can't imagine anything being made, and the comment that this could potentially be decent leaves me to conclude it definitely wasn't 93.
so in the 90s I'm left with 96,98, 99 as potential candidates too.
But from what I know, my most educated guess would be 2004.
Due to the lack of "hot" or scorching heat that I associate with ripeness and what sounds like alot of wetness, I'd say this was probably a weaker / non declared year.
Since this is bonfim, we can just look at Dow's
So I'd be willing to say that we can rule out all major vintage declarations from dow.
as my weather knowledge of port didn't really start until 2000,
the only wet cool september I recall was in 2004 as the past few vintages I've read nothing but hot 30C weather.
even hazarding a guess back the 90s, removing the declared vintages
91/92, 94, 97 leaves me with 93, 95, 96, 98, 99
the 95s was suppose to be great quality too so I'll leave that off the list which leaves me with 93, 96, 98, 99 as potentials for the 90s.
93 was just so terrible that I can't imagine anything being made, and the comment that this could potentially be decent leaves me to conclude it definitely wasn't 93.
so in the 90s I'm left with 96,98, 99 as potential candidates too.
But from what I know, my most educated guess would be 2004.
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz
Re: Guess the year
Total guess one of the years my kids were born, 2004 or 2007
Re: Guess the year
I thought 75 was indeed a hot year but overshadowed by poor picking decisions?DRT wrote:1975
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz
Re: Guess the year
I think 1975 went wrong in 1977 when they used too much inferior juice to make a big vintage.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- uncle tom
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Re: Guess the year
Although the text is not without some concerns, the final summation:
"very sound wines have been made and some could well prove to be very good indeed."
- implies that if not declared, this would have been a decent SQ year.
However, this is the harvest report for 1973 - the last year for which not a single VP was declared, and even LBVs are almost non-existent.
So what went wrong? With the revolution at its height in 1975, one could understand the shippers feeling that any sort of declaration was untimely; but in that event one might expect a raft of LBVs and Colheitas to have emerged subsequently.
Richard Mayson notes that he has never tasted a '73 of any description, and I don't think I have ever seen one offered for sale.
- Most strange..!
Tom
"very sound wines have been made and some could well prove to be very good indeed."
- implies that if not declared, this would have been a decent SQ year.
However, this is the harvest report for 1973 - the last year for which not a single VP was declared, and even LBVs are almost non-existent.
So what went wrong? With the revolution at its height in 1975, one could understand the shippers feeling that any sort of declaration was untimely; but in that event one might expect a raft of LBVs and Colheitas to have emerged subsequently.
Richard Mayson notes that he has never tasted a '73 of any description, and I don't think I have ever seen one offered for sale.
- Most strange..!
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: Guess the year
Hmmm....very interesting.
i think i had a Eufemia white colheita from 1973 at Vinologia last year - can't remember which Eufemia though...and never seen anything else
i think i had a Eufemia white colheita from 1973 at Vinologia last year - can't remember which Eufemia though...and never seen anything else
Rob C.
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Re: Guess the year
Yes, they can't label it as such, but it's from 1973. A few of us had a conversation with one of the owners about how they could descretly put something on the back label to indicate this.RAYC wrote:Hmmm....very interesting.
i think i had a Eufemia white colheita from 1973 at Vinologia last year - can't remember which Eufemia though...and never seen anything else
I've got a vested interest in 1973 as it's my birthyear. To my knowledge I've only seen a 1973 Quinta do Noval LBV and a 1973 Niepoort still in Demi's, but never tasted either. I've never seen a 1973 VP and every producer I've asked (and I've asked a lot) all stated they don't have any VP from this year. But someone, somewhere has to have at least a bottle or two stashed away somewhere in a dark forgotten corner.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Guess the year
I'm sure you're right, and I wouldn't be be surprised if a few pipes in the lodges date from that year as well..But someone, somewhere has to have at least a bottle or two stashed away somewhere in a dark forgotten corner.
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- JacobH
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Re: Guess the year
Although I haven’t look through many, I’ve only seen one bad vintage report, the 1993, published publicly. All the other years, whether good or bad, seem finish in a comment that ‟some good Ports can be made”. I have often wondered why this is. For example, looking at the reports on The Vintage Port Site, and taking three years from about the same time they read:uncle tom wrote:Although the text is not without some concerns, the final summation:
"very sound wines have been made and some could well prove to be very good indeed."
- implies that if not declared, this would have been a decent SQ year.
I think xxxx will produce very good wines in spite of the earlier weather (spring) conditions not being ideal.
While there are still grapes coming into the wineries, it is already clear that some very good wines have been made at the xxxx harvest in the Douro
There are undoubtedly some very good wines made in the first phase of the harvest.
One of these is a general declaration, one could perhaps be called a partial declaration, and the third is probably the worst of the decade. I don’t think anyone could guess which was which from the value-judgement of the wine.
I have been tending towards the conclusion that in any given year, considering the micro-climates in the Douro, there is bound to be one place in each major shipper’s holdings which produce very good, high-quality wine. The question is only whether there is enough to do a full VP blend or whether there is only enough to fill a single pipa for family purposes. Or perhaps there is a subtly to the languages of these reports which I do not quite understand?
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Re: Guess the year
Your last one obviously refers to 2002 where the harvest started off decent then about a week of heavy rain caused havoc and helped turn it into one of the worst in recent memory.
From my own readings and from what many of us have been told, there is some reading between the lines of these vintage reports, especially the older ones. Although sometimes it's quite clearly laid out what a good or poor vintage it was...
Compare 2003
Seems when there is stuff referring to only certain quinta's or grapes picked early or late producing some "decent" or "very good" wines are the key words that mean a not so outstanding year overall.
From my own readings and from what many of us have been told, there is some reading between the lines of these vintage reports, especially the older ones. Although sometimes it's quite clearly laid out what a good or poor vintage it was...
Compare 2003
to 2002It is rare to have such good weather and the grapes in such good condition. Baumés were not too high and acidity levels were normal, both clear proof that we had not had excessive heat.
Yields were very low as is the norm for the Douro. Barroca made well-structured wines, particularly from the meia-encosta vineyards. The Nacional and Touriga Franca performed particularly well, giving wines with lifted aromas, powerful colour and ripe tannins.
Charles Symington
October 2003
Now look at 1971The early made wines, which thankfully are from the best vineyards, escaped the damage done by the rain. However towards the end of the month it was clear that the weather was taking the edge off what could have been a really excellent vintage. There are undoubtedly some very good wines made in the first phase of the harvest.
Charles Symington
17 October 2002
compared to 1970At Bomfim the bunches are still half-green, the normal development for late July. In the Altos the grapes are still completely green. Caseiros (quinta managers) in the Rio Torto, and our own Manuel, say they could not remember development so far behind hand for late August.
Michael D Symington
[late August 1971]
Or this one, short and to the pointt is unlikely that the early high fermentation temperatures will prove to have been dangerously high and it is likely that the 1970 wines will prove to be quite outstandingly good. Their colour is exceptional and very purple and they seem to have plenty of body. Everybody seems delighted with the 1970s and it would surprise nobody if the year produced a Vintage.
James Symington
18th October 1970
And this is perhaps my favorite one as he does a great job making the vintage sound not so bad..Very hot and dry and rain badly required. A little rain fell during the night of 5th-6th but not enough to do much good.
Ronald A Symington
6 August 1965
After the long summer drought the vines are all very dried up.
Michael D Symington
9 September 1965
The quantity generally is larger than last year and at Bomfim which will be finished in a day or two it may well be a record and will be well over the 100 pipes. ! We can consider ourselves very fortunate if the majority of wines turn out fair. We will at any rate have excellent 1954s and 1955s to help out the 1956s.
Ronald A Symington
Early October 1956
Seems when there is stuff referring to only certain quinta's or grapes picked early or late producing some "decent" or "very good" wines are the key words that mean a not so outstanding year overall.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Guess the year
If you go to the VPS' 'Knowledge Base'Or perhaps there is a subtly to the languages of these reports which I do not quite understand?
http://www.thevintageportsite.com/section.php?id=1319
- and read through the reports in order, you do pick up the mood of the wine makers from the tone of the language used - which is where I found '73 to be at odds with the others, given the eventual reputation of the year.
There is also a little bit of code written into many of them, when reference is made to the amount of 'work' that a lagar required. 'required little work' - is code for the wine being unimpressive, while 'required plenty of work' means they were very pleased with the must.
Tom
Last edited by uncle tom on 12:02 Sat 16 Jul 2011, edited 1 time in total.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Guess the year
Following '73 was the vintage that I feel sure was the declaration that never was (thanks to the revolution) - the winemaker's report could hardly be more bullish:
Colour appears to have been excellent everywhere and seldom can a Vintage have been made from such uniformly sound and healthy grapes with not a trace of rot or mould from start to finish.
While it is of course too early to say if the best Quintas have produced a ‘Vintage 1974’, certainly there is nothing to indicate that anything except very fine wines have been made, but what is an absolute certainty is that even ‘middle class’ districts have produced outstandingly good wines, well above average, and the overall 1974 Port Wine Vintage must prove to be one of the best for very many years, and will go a long way to make up for the frankly rather ‘light’ wines of recent vintages.
Michael D Symington
23 October 1974
Contrast that with the rather short and polite report for the year after, which was of course declared:
Musts everywhere showed excellent colour, body and flavour and fermentations were at an excellent 23° to 26° C. The quality of the grapes coming in was uniformly high and the continued hot fine weather increased the graduations.
Some outstanding and maybe even ‘Vintage Worthy’ ports have been produced in the Upper Douro.
Michael D Symington
28 October 1975
Tom
Colour appears to have been excellent everywhere and seldom can a Vintage have been made from such uniformly sound and healthy grapes with not a trace of rot or mould from start to finish.
While it is of course too early to say if the best Quintas have produced a ‘Vintage 1974’, certainly there is nothing to indicate that anything except very fine wines have been made, but what is an absolute certainty is that even ‘middle class’ districts have produced outstandingly good wines, well above average, and the overall 1974 Port Wine Vintage must prove to be one of the best for very many years, and will go a long way to make up for the frankly rather ‘light’ wines of recent vintages.
Michael D Symington
23 October 1974
Contrast that with the rather short and polite report for the year after, which was of course declared:
Musts everywhere showed excellent colour, body and flavour and fermentations were at an excellent 23° to 26° C. The quality of the grapes coming in was uniformly high and the continued hot fine weather increased the graduations.
Some outstanding and maybe even ‘Vintage Worthy’ ports have been produced in the Upper Douro.
Michael D Symington
28 October 1975
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- JacobH
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Re: Guess the year
It would be interesting to see what other shippers made of ’73; was such bullishness widespread or limited to just the Symingtons.
I am surprised that no 1973 seems to exist, though. You would have thought that if it were that good than at least some would have made it out, even if late-bottled in 1976 or turned into colheitas.
I am surprised that no 1973 seems to exist, though. You would have thought that if it were that good than at least some would have made it out, even if late-bottled in 1976 or turned into colheitas.
Re: Guess the year
The revolution took place in April 1974, which, if I am not mistaken, is about the time the 1973 wines should have been brought down from the Douro to VNG. Perhaps something happened then and in the months that followed that disrupted the process so severely that the wines were lost or became unfit for use as vintage dated wines?JacobH wrote:I am surprised that no 1973 seems to exist, though. You would have thought that if it were that good than at least some would have made it out, even if late-bottled in 1976 or turned into colheitas.
There are still people around in the port trade who must know the answer to this.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- JacobH
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Re: Guess the year
That sounds possible. But still, you would expect something to have been made even if they couldn’t get it down from Douro (e.g. a few Douro-baked, late-bottled Vintages or some colheitas) which makes me wonder if it wasn’t so universally good.DRT wrote:The revolution took place in April 1974, which, if I am not mistaken, is about the time the 1973 wines should have been brought down from the Douro to VNG. Perhaps something happened then and in the months that followed that disrupted the process so severely that the wines were lost or became unfit for use as vintage dated wines?JacobH wrote:I am surprised that no 1973 seems to exist, though. You would have thought that if it were that good than at least some would have made it out, even if late-bottled in 1976 or turned into colheitas.
Thinking more generally, if one Port shipper was so worried about the revolution that they drunk their reserve cellar (which I think jdaw1 said happened), it’s interesting they got the 1972 vintage out, since that would have been declared at about the time of the revolution and shipped during it. Unless it was all bottled in 1975.
In any event, it would be more interesting to hear from someone in the industry who was around at that time to talk about what happened.
Re: Guess the year
https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/port ... rod_pt_73/Andy Velebil wrote:Yes, they can't label it as such, but it's from 1973. A few of us had a conversation with one of the owners about how they could descretly put something on the back label to indicate this.RAYC wrote:Hmmm....very interesting.
i think i had a Eufemia white colheita from 1973 at Vinologia last year - can't remember which Eufemia though...and never seen anything else
I've got a vested interest in 1973 as it's my birthyear. To my knowledge I've only seen a 1973 Quinta do Noval LBV and a 1973 Niepoort still in Demi's, but never tasted either. I've never seen a 1973 VP and every producer I've asked (and I've asked a lot) all stated they don't have any VP from this year. But someone, somewhere has to have at least a bottle or two stashed away somewhere in a dark forgotten corner.
A 1973 Colheita
http://www.grandibottiglie.it/cat082_l3.php?n=1
A 1973 Noval LBV
- JacobH
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Re: Guess the year
Wonderful prices from Garrageira National, as always I’d stick with the Quinta / Casa Santa Eufemia white colheitas if I were Andy!smisse wrote: https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/port ... rod_pt_73/
A 1973 Colheita
http://www.grandibottiglie.it/cat082_l3.php?n=1
A 1973 Noval LBV
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Re: Guess the year
Had never seen the RCV Colheita before. I'll have to try and find a bottle of it next time I'm in Portugal...if the price isn't to outrageous that is.JacobH wrote:Wonderful prices from Garrageira National, as always I’d stick with the Quinta / Casa Santa Eufemia white colheitas if I were Andy!smisse wrote: https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/port ... rod_pt_73/
A 1973 Colheita
http://www.grandibottiglie.it/cat082_l3.php?n=1
A 1973 Noval LBV
Re: Guess the year
I believe Quinta Da Roeda made a 1973 vintage.
Might be nice to check this with Croft.
Might be nice to check this with Croft.