2011 Declarations

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djewesbury
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by djewesbury »

RAYC wrote:Is pH level irrelevant as a measure in terms of the acidity of a wine?
Do you mean in terms of whether there is a perceptible difference between 4.05 and 4.35, for instance?
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RAYC
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by RAYC »

djewesbury wrote:
RAYC wrote:Is pH level irrelevant as a measure in terms of the acidity of a wine?
Do you mean in terms of whether there is a perceptible difference between 4.05 and 4.35, for instance?
Are these measurements (4.05 and 4.35) of pH level, or of grams per litre? If the latter, does pH level correlate? GCSE chemistry was a long time ago, so i am lost.

And does it make a difference what type of acid (tartaric / malic / citric)?
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g-man
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Re: 2011 Declarations

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RAYC wrote:Is pH level irrelevant as a measure in terms of the acidity of a wine?
http://www.grapes.msu.edu/pdf/Aromatic% ... tcolor.pdf

slide 19 is pretty interesting.

the perceived level of acidity can be changed with the addition of sugar.

also very interesting

http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistr ... lu_en.html

glutamic acid (the acid component accociated with MSG) has a ph 3.22
doesn't really percieve as sour, rather it does lower the ph of a solution.
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RAYC
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by RAYC »

Uncorked have published their pricing on the Symington 2011.

Roriz pricing looks ambitious!! :lol:
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g-man
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by g-man »

RAYC wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
RAYC wrote:Is pH level irrelevant as a measure in terms of the acidity of a wine?
Do you mean in terms of whether there is a perceptible difference between 4.05 and 4.35, for instance?
Are these measurements (4.05 and 4.35) of pH level, or of grams per litre? If the latter, does pH level correlate? GCSE chemistry was a long time ago, so i am lost.

And does it make a difference what type of acid (tartaric / malic / citric)?
btw to your question, ph level is entirely relevant to measure the acidity of a wine.

the types of acid simply makes up the mixture that would potentially lower or raise pH.

Tartaric acid is the lowest of the bunch and is usually used in wine making to stabilize a wine to keep out microbial bugs.
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RAYC
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by RAYC »

Will have to read up!

So what kind of picture of acidity does the quote of "grams per litre" (as published for Symington 2011s) give us in the absence of also giving pH levels?
Last edited by RAYC on 16:37 Mon 22 Apr 2013, edited 1 time in total.
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djewesbury
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by djewesbury »

RAYC wrote:GCSE chemistry was a long time ago
... at least you did it...
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Uncorked have published their pricing on the Symington 2011
If those prices are mainstream, then they look a little ambitious (Roriz is clearly a typo)

They are, roughly, last price plus RPI; but since then, the wine investment market has caught a severe cold...
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by g-man »

RAYC wrote:Will have to read up!

So what kind of picture of acidity does the quote of "grams per litre" (as published for Symington 2011s) give us in the absence of also giving pH levels?
I believe it gives you only the Total Acidity measured in grams per litre.

I think it means in a 750ml bottle

there are say 4.3 g/l of total acids
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

I believe it gives you only the Total Acidity measured in grams per litre.

I think it means in a 750ml bottle

there are say 4.3 g/l of total acids
I've never quite got my head round this one - all acids are not the same, so it must be referenced to a specific acid, or the figure won't mean much.

Whatever, I'm not really interested in acidity or sugar content, it's what it tastes like that matters... :tpf:
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djewesbury
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by djewesbury »

uncle tom wrote: it's what it tastes like that matters... :tpf:
i was beginning to think i was the only one.. you can put the label on upside down as far as i'm concerned...
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Re: 2011 Declarations

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djewesbury wrote:you can put the label on upside down as far as i'm concerned...
EU rules, dear fellow. Or the IVDP’s.
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by g-man »

jdaw1 wrote:
djewesbury wrote:you can put the label on upside down as far as i'm concerned...
EU rules, dear fellow. Or the IVDP’s.
us customs too.

can't ship it in without the certificate of label approval =)
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djewesbury
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by djewesbury »

g-man wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
djewesbury wrote:you can put the label on upside down as far as i'm concerned...
EU rules, dear fellow. Or the IVDP’s.
us customs too.

can't ship it in without the certificate of label approval =)
i give up. i'm off to the cellar to deface everything down there....
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by DRT »

Do any or all of these values change over time as a VP ages in bottle?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
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g-man
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Re: 2011 Declarations

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DRT wrote:Do any or all of these values change over time as a VP ages in bottle?
that sounds like a great question for the SFE!

I'd be very curious to see this too,

my assumption is yes because of Adrian's response re: the Taylor Scion that due to various evaporations they were able to determine the age by just measuring the ppb of Lead.

But what about in bottle where if the bottle were properly stored there's no ullage, if the port will truly get "denser"
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

It's the 23rd...

Taylor
VVV
Fonseca
Croft

All declaring

No word on Skeffington at this point..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by jdaw1 »

Updated.

Good website work by the Syms and TFP, and by almost nobody else. Sigh.

No Quarles Harris. No Gould Campbell. No Martinez. No Skeffington. Is this the end of the no-terroir ports?

Any news on Noval Nacional?
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

No Quarles Harris. No Gould Campbell. No Martinez. No Skeffington. Is this the end of the no-terroir ports?
Or will they appear later? What will Tesco own brand VP be in fifteen years time..?

Either way, enough houses declaring to call this a general declaration, which it makes it the first '1' year to be generally declared in the two centuries since the system began..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by PhilW »

Either way, enough houses declaring to call this a general declaration, which it makes it the first '1' year to be generally declared in the two centuries since the system began..
I guess 1931 had too few declaring to count as 'general' and 1991 was split 1991/2.

It is interesting looking at the number of times (or % of times) in which years ending with each digit are declared, to see if there might be any decision bias; The following is a rough count of general declarations for the last century (1901-2000, or 1900-1999, whichever you prefer) for years ending with each digit, with split declarations counted as a half - there might be argument about a few of the years as to whether they were 'general' or not, but the idea holds:

xxx0 5
xxx1 0.5
xxx2 1
xxx3 1
xxx4 2
xxx5 4
xxx6 1
xxx7 3.5
xxx8 1.5
xxx9 0


Overall therefore, it seems far more likely to declare in years ending in 5 and 0.. possible decision bias, though I'm sure the case could be argued for this being a coincidence, especially with 7 also have a decent count. Ok, so lets have a look at the 19th century instead:

xxx0 5
xxx1 2
xxx2 1
xxx3 3
xxx4 3
xxx5 2
xxx6 1
xxx7 3
xxx8 3
xxx9 0


These totals use TPF's list of declared years, as I do not know whether any of them were/were not general declarations. Again, years ending in zero are substantially ahead, though 5's do not feature so prominently. Interestingly again no years ending in 9 declared in this century either.
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RAYC
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by RAYC »

Should the first post be updated to nest Delaforce and Royal Oporto under RCV?
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

The maths of probability was never my strong suit.

Anyone able to work out the probability of this distribution occurring randomly?
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Should the first post be updated to nest Delaforce and Royal Oporto under RCV?
Probably..

(main list omits NN - btw..)
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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jdaw1
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by jdaw1 »

uncle tom wrote:(main list omits NN - btw..)
Has NN declared? The QuintaDoNoval.com website is useless. Expensive glitz, not updated with relevant content.
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uncle tom
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Re: 2011 Declarations

Post by uncle tom »

Has NN declared?
Yes - Rute confirmed to me.

No immediate plans to market it though, and she hinted that the regular Noval may be late on parade.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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