Taylor Single Harvest Tawny 1964

[DRT]

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[LGTrotter]

Would you care to elaborate on this albeit very attractive screenshot?

[djewesbury]

Would you care to elaborate on this albeit very attractive screenshot?

A cursory web search has failed to provide much more detail. Where can we buy this and when?

[g-man]

anybody know if this is the krohn rebrand or a new barrel they found?

[LGTrotter]

I was thinking just the same, bet it ain't gonna be cheaper.

[Roy Hersh]

Wiese & Krohn. Adrian mentioned these would be coming soon in limited editions and mentioned they'd appear with the Taylor name associated.

[DRT]

Would you care to elaborate on this albeit very attractive screenshot?

The only information I have is the screenshot.

I think it is fair to say that this new product has not been launched with a flurry of enthusiasm. I wonder why?

[djewesbury]

Would you care to elaborate on this albeit very attractive screenshot?

The only information I have is the screenshot.

I think it is fair to say that this new product has not been launched with a flurry of enthusiasm. I wonder why?

Well it seems not to really have been launched at all yet.. Perhaps a push is planned soon. I've only found one tweet online referring to tasting it.

[DRT]

Wiese & Krohn. Adrian mentioned these would be coming soon in limited editions and mentioned they'd appear with the Taylor name associated.

Is it only me who thinks this is a case of misleading branding?

If what Roy says is true, and it no doubt is, the house of Taylor, Fladgate & Yeatman are about to take credit for the fine work and skill of another shipper. Not only that, but they are riding on the reputation of a shipper that had a better reputation than they have for this style of Port.

Having purchased the company, presumably for the quality of their stocks and vineyards, would it not be more honest for The Fladgate Partnership to use the reputable brand they have acquired rather than have unsuspecting customers believe that Taylor have been hiding this gem under a bushel for the past 49 years?

Buying stocks of wine and then blending it with and marketing it as your own is normal practise and is understandable to the consumer. Buying casks of wine, replacing the label and making people believe you made it is misleading and disingenuous.

This just isn't cricket.

[LGTrotter]

Down with that sort of thing!

[djewesbury]

This is a strong claim; is it so significant...? Maybe there's an explanatory note on the label somewhere... As you say, blended ports such as Quarles Harris or Gould Campbell don't credit the individual growers.

[DRT]

In the fullness of time it might prove interesting to note that on this day Wiese & Krohn 1964 Colhieta Branco is available at £49.99 and the 1966 standard Colhieta at £69.99.

I suspect the "Taylor" 1964 will be closer to £200.

[djewesbury]

In the fullness of time it might prove interesting to note that on this day Wiese & Krohn 1964 Colhieta Branco is available at £49.99 and the 1966 standard Colhieta at £69.99.

I suspect the "Taylor" 1964 will be closer to £200.

Well that's pertinent for sure.. Is the branding of this an attempt to compete directly with Graham's (viz. use of 'Single Harvest' rather than 'Colheita'), in what DRT contends is a slightly unfair manner?

[DRT]

This is a strong claim; is it so significant...? Maybe there's an explanatory note on the label somewhere... As you say, blended ports such as Quarles Harris or Gould Campbell don't credit the individual growers.

Many points to deal with here:

1. Is it significant? I think so.

2. Explanatory note on the label? If there is I partly withdraw my grump.

3. QH/GC - different situation. Taylor has built a reputation as a company who make and sell their own Port, particularly over the past 100 years. QH & GC are ancient shipping companies who have never owned vineyards and have for the past 100 years been used as brands. When you see a bottle of Taylor's port you instinctively believe they made it. Not so for QH & GC, which don't really exist as operating entities.

[DRT]

Is the branding of this an attempt to compete directly with Graham's

Surely not! That is tantamount to the ludicrous suggestion that Vina Velha, Stone Terraces, Bioma and others like them were trying to copy Nacional

[djewesbury]

Is the branding of this an attempt to compete directly with Graham's

Surely not! That is tantamount to the ludicrous suggestion that Vina Velha, Stone Terraces, Bioma and others like them were trying to copy Nacional

Well I think I'll leave this alone and stick with the G82 Single Harvest and the occasional bottle of Kopke 84 Colheita.. Oh and some Niepoort 05 if it's about..

[LGTrotter]

Currently drinking Krohn 2000 Colheita, do you think Taylor will be banging this out for the £9 a bottle I paid. (about the right price)

[RonnieRoots]

In the fullness of time it might prove interesting to note that on this day Wiese & Krohn 1964 Colhieta Branco is available at £49.99 and the 1966 standard Colhieta at £69.99.

I suspect the "Taylor" 1964 will be closer to £200.

Well that's pertinent for sure.. Is the branding of this an attempt to compete directly with Graham's (viz. use of 'Single Harvest' rather than 'Colheita'), in what DRT contends is a slightly unfair manner?

I expect we'll be seeing much more of these "limited" bottlings in the near future. Taylor's purchase of W&K was a clear attempt to jump on that bandwagon. The shippers seem to agree that premiumisation is the way forward for the port business, and it's much easier to release limited release bottlings of colheita than vintage (+ they're kind of fashionable at the moment). Look at the whisky trade and see the future of port. My guess is that the port trade will also put much more focus on the travel retail sector. Port's penetration there is very bad at the moment, and that currently is the sector where a lot of money is made.

[jdaw1]

anybody know if this is the krohn rebrand or a new barrel they found?

The ‘new’ barrel was delightfully mischievous. Scion had an extra century of evaporation: those arguments would be much weaker here.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I think I feel much less strongly about this than DRT. The main reason is that although much of the raw materials and historic effort that has gone into producing this wine came from Wiese & Krohn, if the final blending and bottling decision has come from the team at Taylor then I think it is fair to label and market this as a Taylor product. It is even possible that the blend contains some wines from the Taylor side, even if the majority is from the Krohn side.

Taylor probably has a better marketing presence than Krohn, and will probably be able to use that to generate better prices than if the bottles had been sold under the Krohn name. That makes commercial sense - Taylor Fladgate need to make a return on their investment and if their marketing machine is able to add significant value and profile to the wines in the casks they bought, good for them. That's no different from any large company with good channels to market taking over any other smaller company with less ability to get their products to their potential customers with the deepest pockets.

What I find slightly less tasteful is that the first such wine should be released shortly before the 50th anniversary of the harvest. In my mind that puts Taylor Fladgate in the grey area between spotting a healthy demand for anniversary wines and profiteering by selling wines for more than their fair worth. But there seems to be a pretty efficient market for port these days, with good port selling for high prices and poor port being difficult to sell. If the wines in these bottles are good, they will sell - although I suspect that they will need to be pitched at less than the release price of Scion!

[DRT]

if the final blending and bottling decision has come from the team at Taylor then I think it is fair to label and market this as a Taylor product. It is even possible that the blend contains some wines from the Taylor side, even if the majority is from the Krohn side.

My view was formed from this!

anybody know if this is the krohn rebrand or a new barrel they found?

Wiese & Krohn. Adrian mentioned these would be coming soon in limited editions and mentioned they'd appear with the Taylor name associated.

I might be reading it incorrectly but Roy's reply leads me to think that this is a re-brand of a W&K wine, not a mixture of 1964s from both companies. I might be wrong, in which case I would probably reach a different view.

[Andy Velebil]

At what point are companies, two in particular, going to be like the rest of the Port trade and call these by their rightful name, Colheita's?

Talk about causing confusion for an entire world except one country. Who by now is probably familiar with the term Colheita as it applies to Port.

Just saying....

[marc j.]

I'm in total agreement with DRT on this point. If it is actually a W&K product, then it should be labeled as such. Slapping a Taylor label on wine that had taken W&K over 40 years to produce doesn't seem fair or equitable and is at best dishonest.

[Andy Velebil]

While I understand Alex's point and agree somewhat with it. I am more in agreement with Derek and Marc on this one.

[Andy Velebil]

At what point are companies, two in particular, going to be like the rest of the Port trade and call these by their rightful name, Colheita's?

Talk about causing confusion for an entire world except one country. Who by now is probably familiar with the term Colheita as it applies to Port.

Just saying....

Back to this rant. Even the same producer (SFE) can't agree what to call these. Warre's is called a Colheita and Graham's a Single Year Tawny. What gives?? Maybe it's time the IVDP steps in and regulates this like what they did regarding "Bottle Matured", "Traditional", and "unfiltered" LBV labeling.

http://www.warre.com/section.php?id=1063

http://www.grahams-port.com/section.php?id=1316