Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Anything to do with Port.
CaliforniaBrad
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by CaliforniaBrad » 20:42 Sat 27 Sep 2014

Glenn E. wrote:The explanation is beyond my capabilities while typing on a phone. The Silval question has a very complicated answer.
IIRC, Andy had an eloquent explanation when the topic came up at a tasting at one point. Perhaps he could share?


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DRT
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT » 21:05 Sat 27 Sep 2014

The answer to "The Silval Question" is a combination of territory and brand. As far as I recall Quinta do Silval once belonged to and was considered to be part of Quinta do Noval. That is no longer the case and part of the Quinta is now owned by the Magalhães family who use it as a hotel and also produce some dry wines. Around the time that Axa bought Noval their was a dispute over the use of the Silval brand. The outcome was that Noval could only use the word "Silval" and the Magalhães family could not sell wine or Port under the name "Quinta do Silval". In some respects both sides lost the fight.
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JacobH
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by JacobH » 21:42 Sat 27 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:The answer to "The Silval Question" is a combination of territory and brand. As far as I recall Quinta do Silval once belonged to and was considered to be part of Quinta do Noval. That is no longer the case and part of the Quinta is now owned by the Magalhães family who use it as a hotel and also produce some dry wines. Around the time that Axa bought Noval their was a dispute over the use of the Silval brand. The outcome was that Noval could only use the word "Silval" and the Magalhães family could not sell wine or Port under the name "Quinta do Silval". In some respects both sides lost the fight.
Thanks for this: I had no idea it was so complex! I suppose at least the current proprietors of Quinta do Silval get some benefit in terms of free advertising from the far more widely available Noval products.

Do you know if the Noval Silval was ever a proper SQVP from that Quinta? All the bottle labels I can see on Google say just “Silval”.
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DRT
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT » 23:45 Sat 27 Sep 2014

JacobH wrote:Do you know if the Noval Silval was ever a proper SQVP from that Quinta? All the bottle labels I can see on Google say just “Silval”.
Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
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JacobH
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by JacobH » 11:05 Sun 28 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
Thanks: that all makes perfect sense now. Glad to see that boundary disputes are just as pointless in Portugal as they are in England. You would have thought the simplest thing would have been to find a new name for the second-label Port if they’d only released it twice. A bit like Niepoort’s premium Port switching from Pisca to Bioma after one release.

Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question. With the expansion that has taken place at most major Quintas (going all the way back to the merger of the two Vargellas and beyond), I’m not sure anyone would bat an eyelid if Noval had bought Silval outright and extended the borders of Noval to include it!
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DRT
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT » 13:30 Sun 28 Sep 2014

JacobH wrote:Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question.
Indeed.
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LGTrotter
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by LGTrotter » 11:30 Mon 29 Sep 2014

The 96 Smith Woodhouse Quinta Magdalena is nice and as the 88 is a bit gone over then it might be worth pressing on with the 96. And if we can keep this thread going long enough then eventually something will be worth drinking.

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mosesbotbol
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by mosesbotbol » 18:54 Mon 29 Sep 2014

1994 Dow and 1991 Croft are the two that first come to mind that could be properly enjoyed today. I would hold off if you have other stuff to drink.
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AHB
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by AHB » 22:31 Mon 29 Sep 2014

mosesbotbol wrote:1994 Dow and 1991 Croft are the two that first come to mind that could be properly enjoyed today. I would hold off if you have other stuff to drink.
Interesting. I had a Dow 1994 a couple of months ago and thought it was still very tight and closed.
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WS1
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by WS1 » 10:13 Tue 30 Sep 2014

90 Malvedos (well stored and when with not a lot of VA)
98 Fonseca Guimarens
91 Morgan
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AW77
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by AW77 » 20:41 Tue 30 Sep 2014

96 Fonseca Guimarens
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DRT
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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT » 22:26 Tue 30 Sep 2014

Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by Andy Velebil » 13:31 Wed 01 Oct 2014

JacobH wrote:
DRT wrote:Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
Thanks: that all makes perfect sense now. Glad to see that boundary disputes are just as pointless in Portugal as they are in England. You would have thought the simplest thing would have been to find a new name for the second-label Port if they’d only released it twice. A bit like Niepoort’s premium Port switching from Pisca to Bioma after one release.

Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question. With the expansion that has taken place at most major Quintas (going all the way back to the merger of the two Vargellas and beyond), I’m not sure anyone would bat an eyelid if Noval had bought Silval outright and extended the borders of Noval to include it!
DRT would be correct. From what I've been told the old 1980's Quinta do Silval came from the (now) Noval part of their Quinta. That part is below the main road which cuts through the Quinta. That area is also where the Quinta do Marco vineyard is as well (Noval also released a QdN/QdM in the mid 1980's). Confusing at best, which is why I suspect it only happened a couple times.

Though I believe the dispute was a bit more complicated than we've laid it out. And I'm sure collectively we've probably got some details wrong. But I think we're kinda close. LOL.

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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by djewesbury » 23:42 Thu 02 Oct 2014

DRT wrote:Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
How I've missed your bad influence. 3 bottles on their way to me from Portugal (for the price of 2 if I'd ordered them in the UK).
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by Andy Velebil » 13:34 Fri 03 Oct 2014

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
How I've missed your bad influence. 3 bottles on their way to me from Portugal (for the price of 2 if I'd ordered them in the UK).
You've done well. It is indeed a wonderful Colheita

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Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DaveRL » 21:31 Fri 03 Oct 2014

1994 Taylor LBV. On the lighter side.

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