Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Anything to do with Port.
CaliforniaBrad
Quinta do Noval LBV
Posts: 232
Joined: 01:11 Thu 04 Jul 2013

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by CaliforniaBrad »

Glenn E. wrote:The explanation is beyond my capabilities while typing on a phone. The Silval question has a very complicated answer.
IIRC, Andy had an eloquent explanation when the topic came up at a tasting at one point. Perhaps he could share?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT »

The answer to "The Silval Question" is a combination of territory and brand. As far as I recall Quinta do Silval once belonged to and was considered to be part of Quinta do Noval. That is no longer the case and part of the Quinta is now owned by the Magalhães family who use it as a hotel and also produce some dry wines. Around the time that Axa bought Noval their was a dispute over the use of the Silval brand. The outcome was that Noval could only use the word "Silval" and the Magalhães family could not sell wine or Port under the name "Quinta do Silval". In some respects both sides lost the fight.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
JacobH
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3300
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by JacobH »

DRT wrote:The answer to "The Silval Question" is a combination of territory and brand. As far as I recall Quinta do Silval once belonged to and was considered to be part of Quinta do Noval. That is no longer the case and part of the Quinta is now owned by the Magalhães family who use it as a hotel and also produce some dry wines. Around the time that Axa bought Noval their was a dispute over the use of the Silval brand. The outcome was that Noval could only use the word "Silval" and the Magalhães family could not sell wine or Port under the name "Quinta do Silval". In some respects both sides lost the fight.
Thanks for this: I had no idea it was so complex! I suppose at least the current proprietors of Quinta do Silval get some benefit in terms of free advertising from the far more widely available Noval products.

Do you know if the Noval Silval was ever a proper SQVP from that Quinta? All the bottle labels I can see on Google say just “Silval”.
Image
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT »

JacobH wrote:Do you know if the Noval Silval was ever a proper SQVP from that Quinta? All the bottle labels I can see on Google say just “Silval”.
Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
JacobH
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3300
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by JacobH »

DRT wrote:Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
Thanks: that all makes perfect sense now. Glad to see that boundary disputes are just as pointless in Portugal as they are in England. You would have thought the simplest thing would have been to find a new name for the second-label Port if they’d only released it twice. A bit like Niepoort’s premium Port switching from Pisca to Bioma after one release.

Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question. With the expansion that has taken place at most major Quintas (going all the way back to the merger of the two Vargellas and beyond), I’m not sure anyone would bat an eyelid if Noval had bought Silval outright and extended the borders of Noval to include it!
Image
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT »

JacobH wrote:Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question.
Indeed.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3707
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by LGTrotter »

The 96 Smith Woodhouse Quinta Magdalena is nice and as the 88 is a bit gone over then it might be worth pressing on with the 96. And if we can keep this thread going long enough then eventually something will be worth drinking.
User avatar
mosesbotbol
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 598
Joined: 19:54 Wed 18 Jul 2007
Location: Boston, USA

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by mosesbotbol »

1994 Dow and 1991 Croft are the two that first come to mind that could be properly enjoyed today. I would hold off if you have other stuff to drink.
F1 | Welsh Corgi | Did Someone Mention Port?
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

mosesbotbol wrote:1994 Dow and 1991 Croft are the two that first come to mind that could be properly enjoyed today. I would hold off if you have other stuff to drink.
Interesting. I had a Dow 1994 a couple of months ago and thought it was still very tight and closed.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
WS1
Cruz 1989
Posts: 1058
Joined: 23:08 Wed 04 Feb 2009
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by WS1 »

90 Malvedos (well stored and when with not a lot of VA)
98 Fonseca Guimarens
91 Morgan
"Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough"
Mark Twain
User avatar
AW77
Morgan 1991
Posts: 1113
Joined: 20:20 Wed 25 Sep 2013
Location: Cologne, Germany

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by AW77 »

96 Fonseca Guimarens
The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt know thy Port
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DRT »

Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by Andy Velebil »

JacobH wrote:
DRT wrote:Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval was produced from the 1983 and 1984 vintages. I have no idea whether or not these were true SQVPs in the sense of being from grapes entirely grown within Quinta do Silval but if they were I suspect those grapes grew in the part of that quinta that now forms part of Quinta do Noval and not the part owned by the Magalhães family. The first release of Noval Silval was 1987, so perhaps the dispute about brand was earlier than Axa's involvement.
Thanks: that all makes perfect sense now. Glad to see that boundary disputes are just as pointless in Portugal as they are in England. You would have thought the simplest thing would have been to find a new name for the second-label Port if they’d only released it twice. A bit like Niepoort’s premium Port switching from Pisca to Bioma after one release.

Whether any SQVP is a true SQVP is always a difficult question. With the expansion that has taken place at most major Quintas (going all the way back to the merger of the two Vargellas and beyond), I’m not sure anyone would bat an eyelid if Noval had bought Silval outright and extended the borders of Noval to include it!
DRT would be correct. From what I've been told the old 1980's Quinta do Silval came from the (now) Noval part of their Quinta. That part is below the main road which cuts through the Quinta. That area is also where the Quinta do Marco vineyard is as well (Noval also released a QdN/QdM in the mid 1980's). Confusing at best, which is why I suspect it only happened a couple times.

Though I believe the dispute was a bit more complicated than we've laid it out. And I'm sure collectively we've probably got some details wrong. But I think we're kinda close. LOL.
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by djewesbury »

DRT wrote:Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
How I've missed your bad influence. 3 bottles on their way to me from Portugal (for the price of 2 if I'd ordered them in the UK).
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by Andy Velebil »

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:Those of you who know me know that I am not entirely in the tawny camp, but the Noval Colheita 1997 is quite stunning. Try to find a reason to buy/taste it. You won't regret doing so.
How I've missed your bad influence. 3 bottles on their way to me from Portugal (for the price of 2 if I'd ordered them in the UK).
You've done well. It is indeed a wonderful Colheita
DaveRL
Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
Posts: 512
Joined: 15:04 Tue 18 Mar 2014
Location: London

Re: Is anything from the '90s worth opening today?

Post by DaveRL »

1994 Taylor LBV. On the lighter side.
Post Reply