Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Anything to do with Port.
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Should a 2.25L bottle of port be marketed as a Tregnum or Tappit Hen?

Tappit Hen
4
20%
Tregnum
7
35%
Tappit Hen, but only if a dumpy Pota bottle is used
6
30%
Tappit Hen, but only if the bottle is in the shape of a hen
3
15%
 
Total votes: 20

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uncle tom
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Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by uncle tom » 06:56 Tue 30 Sep 2014

Should we have a referendum on this question?
- Why not..

2.1L bottles being not permitted anymore, should the name 'Tappit Hen' be used for a 2.25L bottle?
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

PhilW
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by PhilW » 08:22 Tue 30 Sep 2014

uncle tom wrote:2.1L bottles being not permitted anymore, should the name 'Tappit Hen' be used for a 2.25L bottle?
I think you need to update the question in the title/first post to match; your rider of "2.1L bottles being not permitted anymore" would change my answer. While it is implicit, provided you know that 2.1L bottles are not longer permitted, without that knowledge your answer could differ, i.e. for me, without that additional fact:
  • Without the rider, as first post "Should a 2.25L bottle of port be marketed as a Tregnum or Tappit Hen?" -> Tregnum,
  • but with the rider, "2.1L bottles being not permitted anymore, should the name 'Tappit Hen' be used for a 2.25L bottle?" -> Yes, providing it is dumpy/pota shaped.

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uncle tom
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by uncle tom » 09:37 Tue 30 Sep 2014

My understanding is that EU rules stipulate that wine bottles (other than miniatures) must be multiples or simple divisions of 75cL.

Spirits though, are still mostly sold in 70cL I notice..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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DRT
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by DRT » 22:30 Tue 30 Sep 2014

So it is now two votes to the "only if shaped like a hen" option. I'm glad I wasn't alone.
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TLW
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by TLW » 23:24 Tue 30 Sep 2014

Goodness. What a diversity of opinion in that poll.

LGTrotter
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by LGTrotter » 21:35 Thu 02 Oct 2014

If tregnum pulls ahead, will it be the winner even if the other 3 tappit hen answers add up to more?

Looks like a romp home 3 lengths clear for tappit hen at the moment.

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djewesbury
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by djewesbury » 23:22 Thu 02 Oct 2014

Suddenly it got interesting. Someone must have swapped their vote :roll:
Daniel J.
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by DaveRL » 08:42 Fri 03 Oct 2014

No exit poll. Vote swapping allowed. Tense.

When is the result, and what are you drinking?

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RAYC
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by RAYC » 11:15 Fri 03 Oct 2014

uncle tom wrote:My understanding is that EU rules stipulate that wine bottles (other than miniatures) must be multiples or simple divisions of 75cL.

Spirits though, are still mostly sold in 70cL I notice..
I think this only applies to wine bottles between 100ml and 1500ml (or 2000ml for spirits)...so larger formats should not be affected by this (of course, this does not preclude the possibility of national legislation regarding larger sizes - eg: US rules about bottles between 3l and 18l needing to step up in intervals of whole litres, prompting the use of 5l "jeroboams")

For still wine, the permitted sizes are: 100, 187, 250, 375, 500, 750, 1000, 1500

For sparking wine: 125, 200, 375, 750, 1500

For "liquer" and "aromatised" wine: 100, 200, 375, 500, 750, 1000, 1500

For spirits: 100, 200, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1500, 1750, 2000

There is also a special category for Jura wines ("yellow" wines) permitting 620ml bottles.

Port falls in the liquer / aromatised wine category i think (I have not actually looked this up, but I currently have a 20cl Churchill white port bottle in my fridge)

Link to EU legislation: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 45&from=EN
Rob C.

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uncle tom
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by uncle tom » 06:16 Sat 04 Oct 2014

So maybe I'm blaming the EU unfairly. Perhaps it is the mysterious 'inter-professional council' (or something similar) that is the obstruction in this instance, and in which event, a rule change might be negotiable..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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jdaw1
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by jdaw1 » 09:40 Sat 04 Oct 2014

uncle tom wrote:My understanding is that EU rules
…with a little cunning and imagination to see the loopholes, do not prohibit any size ≥ 18¾cl (and that might be 5cl, I’d have to check).

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RAYC
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by RAYC » 15:51 Mon 06 Oct 2014

jdaw1 wrote:
uncle tom wrote:My understanding is that EU rules
…with a little cunning and imagination to see the loopholes, do not prohibit any size ≥ 18¾cl (and that might be 5cl, I’d have to check).
I'm finding this statement quite cryptic - any chance you could expound?
Rob C.

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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by jdaw1 » 18:07 Mon 06 Oct 2014

RAYC wrote:I'm finding this statement quite cryptic - any chance you could expound?
From memory, the rules not regulate bottle sizes at all. The rules regulate labels. Labels can’t be bigger than actual bottle size, at least statistically, and must be a size on the list. But by all means, fill a 50l bottle, label it 18l (a legal size), and add words to the back to say that “We’re not allowed to say that this is a 50l bottle. We can say that, before being filled with Port, it could hold 50l of liquid. We can say that we’re paying taxes on 50l of Port. But EU rules — hurray! — don’t allow us to say that it hold 50l, because that would be an illegal size. So we wrote 18l on the front. Brussels, eh?”

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JacobH
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by JacobH » 22:10 Tue 14 Oct 2014

jdaw1 wrote:
RAYC wrote:I'm finding this statement quite cryptic - any chance you could expound?
From memory, the rules not regulate bottle sizes at all. The rules regulate labels. Labels can’t be bigger than actual bottle size, at least statistically, and must be a size on the list. But by all means, fill a 50l bottle, label it 18l (a legal size), and add words to the back to say that “We’re not allowed to say that this is a 50l bottle. We can say that, before being filled with Port, it could hold 50l of liquid. We can say that we’re paying taxes on 50l of Port. But EU rules — hurray! — don’t allow us to say that it hold 50l, because that would be an illegal size. So we wrote 18l on the front. Brussels, eh?”
Do you not come unstuck under the Weights and Measures (Intoxicating Liquor) Order 1988 (SI 1988/2039):
Regulation 4 wrote:4. (1) The intoxicating liquor and other liquids specified in column 1 of Schedule 1 to this Order shall be pre-packed or, in the case of those in Part III of Schedule 1, otherwise made up in a container for sale, only if they are made up in one of the quantities by volume specified in column 2, subject to the exceptions specified in column 3.
Schedule 1, Column 1 wrote:Wine of fresh grapes; grape must with fermentation prevented or arrested by the addition of alcohol, including wine made of unfermented grape juice blended with alcohol, grape must in fermentation or with fermentation arrested otherwise than by the addition of alcohol, of subheadings 2204 21 21 to 2204 21 39 inclusive, 2204 29 21 to 2204 29 39 inclusive and 2204 30 10
Schedule 1, Column 2 wrote:10 cl, 18.7 cl (x), 25 cl, 37.5 cl, 50 cl, 75 cl, 1 L, 1.5 L, 2 L, 3 L, 5 L, 6 L, 9 L, 10 L

(x) for consumption on board aircraft and ships only
There are various exemptions, including for wines bottled before 1st January 1989.
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jdaw1
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by jdaw1 » 23:03 Tue 14 Oct 2014

JacobH wrote:Do you not come unstuck under the Weights and Measures (Intoxicating Liquor) Order 1988 (SI 1988/2039)
If that prohibits something allowed under the Common Customs Tariff, which dominates the other?

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AHB
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Re: Tappit Hen or Tregnum? - Poll

Post by AHB » 12:48 Wed 15 Oct 2014

Are any of the sizes permitted under the CCT not also permitted by the Statutory Instrument Jacob has referenced?
Top Ports in 2019 (so far): Cockburn 1947 and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
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