The ‘NN question’. Axel has Nacional. I’ve had NN85 thrice (July 2006, March 2007, September 2008) and it has never impressed. Must we have it?jdaw1 wrote:Next task: shippers. The first post has been updated with understanding of what is available. Please could people look at what I think they’ve offered, and add if missing or correct if wrong.
1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Quoting as at top of page.
- Axel P
- Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
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Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I had this a couple of times, too and agree that it is not the best 85.
Let me know which Ports I should be sending.
Axel
Let me know which Ports I should be sending.
Axel
worldofport.com
o-port-unidade.com
o-port-unidade.com
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I say no. If it was a horizontal with a better reputation across the board (1963, 1966, 1970, etc.) I would vote yes, but 1985 is too variable and 1985 NN not worth the money.jdaw1 wrote:Quoting as at top of page.The ‘NN question’. Axel has Nacional. I’ve had NN85 thrice (July 2006, March 2007, September 2008) and it has never impressed. Must we have it?jdaw1 wrote:Next task: shippers. The first post has been updated with understanding of what is available. Please could people look at what I think they’ve offered, and add if missing or correct if wrong.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I can offer Calem, Dow, Feuerheerd, Fonseca, Gould Campbell, Graham, Offley Boa Vista, Taylorjdaw1 wrote:Next task: shippers. The first post has been updated with understanding of what is available. Please could people look at what I think they’ve offered, and add if missing or correct if wrong.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
How many bottles are we planning to open?
We are currently nine men and a lightweight - twenty six bottles (two being man-sized bottles) seems wasteful, especially as some are highly likely to be rubbish.
What is the plan?
We are currently nine men and a lightweight - twenty six bottles (two being man-sized bottles) seems wasteful, especially as some are highly likely to be rubbish.
What is the plan?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
We needed a date, and have one. Next we gather information about who has what. Using that we might perhaps pencil in a provisional tentative list of who is bringing what. About a month ahead of the tasting, when we will hopefully be more confident about how many and who, a more definite assignment can then be made.DRT wrote:What is the plan?
If you need more, assume that if we are n people, the first flight will be n bottles volume, and the second flight about n×1¼ bottles volume.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I'm still in and can offer Dow, Taylor, Fonseca, Calem, Warre, Graham, Smith Woodhouse, Noval and possibily Ramos Pinto.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I may need to adopt since I have not a lot og 85s. For me please no NN since not worth the money. Also they are too variable as all 80s port. Other than that I would vote for separating Portugiese shippers from English shippers. The Portugese shippers being sweeter and less alcoholic and hence in tastings seem a bit handicapped against their English counterparts.
regards
WS1
regards
WS1
"Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough"
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Do you have any 1985s? Do you have any that nobody else, or only a few others, have offered? If so, please offer.WS1 wrote:I may need to adopt since I have not a lot og 85s.
Meanwhile, the state of play is as follows.
We are missing Ferreira, Kopke, Quarles Harris, and depending on IDJ’s “possibly Ramos Pinto”, perhaps that.
- djewesbury
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Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I am not able to supply any of those missing. My 85s are all those we already have.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
The state of play is now as follows.
We are missing Ferreira, Kopke, Quarles Harris, and depending on IDJ’s “possibly Ramos Pinto”, perhaps that. Would it acceptable to substitute Fr K QH with the likes of Andresen Barros Rozès?
We are missing Ferreira, Kopke, Quarles Harris, and depending on IDJ’s “possibly Ramos Pinto”, perhaps that. Would it acceptable to substitute Fr K QH with the likes of Andresen Barros Rozès?
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Nearly three weeks after the date was settled, we have nine people.
For nine people, is twenty-eight bottles volume, split over lunch and evening sessions:
• Paltry?
• Sensible?
• Ambitious?
For nine people, is twenty-eight bottles volume, split over lunch and evening sessions:
• Paltry?
• Sensible?
• Ambitious?
- Alex Bridgeman
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Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Three bottles of port each seems ambitious, even if drunk over an extended time.
However, with a collection of sample bottles, I am sure that I would be able to do my part to ensure that the bottles were all empty by the end of the day.
However, with a collection of sample bottles, I am sure that I would be able to do my part to ensure that the bottles were all empty by the end of the day.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I think we could adequately assess the progress of the 1975 vintage with nine bottles. We could be decadent and do it with 18 or we could be wasteful and do it with 28.jdaw1 wrote:Nearly three weeks after the date was settled, we have nine people.
For nine people, is twenty-eight bottles volume, split over lunch and evening sessions:
• Paltry?
• Sensible?
• Ambitious?
My choice would be 9, perhaps a few more to cover potential duds.
Given our recent experience of G52SHT and D60 would it make more sense to have multiple bottles from big name shippers from different sources rather than lots of less well known and probably unavailable shippers?
Two bottles of Croft, Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Noval and Taylor would give 1.33 bottles per person and useful information about whether or not to buy.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
My pick would be Taylor, Graham. Fonseca, Croft, Dow, Warre, Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse, Ramos Pinto, Calem, Churchill, Martinez, Sandeman, Quarles Harris, Offley. Fifteen bottles, most of which are seen at auction occasionally and so could be purchased if desired. Two sittings still preferred.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
The audience has not been enthusiastic about two sittings, and seems to much prefer not using a day of leave.flash_uk wrote:Two sittings still preferred.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Oops! I thought we were in the 1975 thread.DRT wrote:I think we could adequately assess the progress of the 1975 vintage with nine bottles.jdaw1 wrote:Nearly three weeks after the date was settled, we have nine people.
For nine people, is twenty-eight bottles volume, split over lunch and evening sessions:
• Paltry?
• Sensible?
• Ambitious?
But my general point stands - I think 28 bottles between 9 people for a non-stellar vintage is not a good idea. Mike suggests 15, which I think is probably about right for 1985, and I think one sitting would do the job.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
For the 97 horizontal I believe we had 21 bottles between 12 in one session over three flights and so 16 bottles between 9 ought to be doable (one session, two flights) especially as the 85s are going to be more accessible (from a drinking perspective) than the 97s. With that number we're also likely to get at least one flawed bottle. Of course, ideally, it would be better if we would increase the numbers attending and thus then increase the shippers.
Incidentally, I have checked and unfortunately do not hold any RP 85 but Harvey's can be added to my list.
Incidentally, I have checked and unfortunately do not hold any RP 85 but Harvey's can be added to my list.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
That seems to be a consensus: one flight, sixteen(ish) bottles.
And should either shape include the magnums?
Edit: there are 1985s we have quite often, chiefly Fonseca, but other big shippers as well. Should these be excluded?
DRT wrote:Given our recent experience of G52SHT and D60 would it make more sense to have multiple bottles from big name shippers from different sources rather than lots of less well known and probably unavailable shippers?
Two shapes have been proposed: few shippers but twice each; or many shippers. Reasoning and preference, please.flash_uk wrote:My pick would be Taylor, Graham. Fonseca, Croft, Dow, Warre, Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse, Ramos Pinto, Calem, Churchill, Martinez, Sandeman, Quarles Harris, Offley.
And should either shape include the magnums?
Edit: there are 1985s we have quite often, chiefly Fonseca, but other big shippers as well. Should these be excluded?
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I would prefer to keep it to one bottle per shipper thus allowing us to explore a wider range and get a better feel for the overall vintage, and keep the well known ones in there for some reference points. We have done bottle variation studies before, but this is not the objective of this tasting in my view.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Actually now that I think about it, one is better!jdaw1 wrote:The audience has not been enthusiastic about two sittings, and seems to much prefer not using a day of leave.flash_uk wrote:Two sittings still preferred.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
I would just go for single bottles, and include the well known ones as Charles suggests.jdaw1 wrote:Two shapes have been proposed: few shippers but twice each; or many shippers. Reasoning and preference, please.
And should either shape include the magnums?
Edit: there are 1985s we have quite often, chiefly Fonseca, but other big shippers as well. Should these be excluded?
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
TNs on of 1985 VPs, from the last two years:
• 17 × Taylor;
• 16 × Fonseca;
• 6 × Churchill;
• 6 × Graham;
• 5 × Warre;
• 4 × Dow;
• 2 × Croft;
• 2 × Feuerheerd;
• 2 × Gould Campbell;
• 2 × Martinez;
• 1 × Cálem;
• 1 × Hooper;
• 1 × Niepoort;
• 1 × Offley Boa Vista;
• 1 × Ramos Pinto.
Almost half of our 1985 tasting notes from the last two years are either Fonseca or Taylor.
• 17 × Taylor;
• 16 × Fonseca;
• 6 × Churchill;
• 6 × Graham;
• 5 × Warre;
• 4 × Dow;
• 2 × Croft;
• 2 × Feuerheerd;
• 2 × Gould Campbell;
• 2 × Martinez;
• 1 × Cálem;
• 1 × Hooper;
• 1 × Niepoort;
• 1 × Offley Boa Vista;
• 1 × Ramos Pinto.
Almost half of our 1985 tasting notes from the last two years are either Fonseca or Taylor.
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
Criminal! Your sentence is to correct this ratio:jdaw1 wrote:Almost half of our 1985 tasting notes from the last two years are either Fonseca or Taylor.
jdaw1 wrote:• 17 × Taylor;
• 16 × Fonseca;
• 1 × Hooper;
Glenn Elliott
Re: 1985 horizontal: Wed 25th Nov 2015, B&F
The plan is now nine or so people, about fifteen bottles, no magnums, no duplicates, a mixture of major and minor shippers, in one evening session. Rephrased, the event has been downgraded from a major horizontal to an evening with the boys (girls being welcome, but the statistics suggest unlikely).
Failing cogent disagreement, on Friday I will cancel the lunch-time booking.
Edit: and, that done, I’m going to assert my authority as the new leader. We have tasted a lot of Taylor and Fonseca 1985. A lot. Interest would be increased if these two slots — perhaps by Venezuelan-style inflation becoming three slots — were filled with other shippers.
Failing cogent disagreement, on Friday I will cancel the lunch-time booking.
Edit: and, that done, I’m going to assert my authority as the new leader. We have tasted a lot of Taylor and Fonseca 1985. A lot. Interest would be increased if these two slots — perhaps by Venezuelan-style inflation becoming three slots — were filled with other shippers.