Wednesday October 8, 2008

Organise events to meet up and drink Port.
User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11947
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Post by AHB » 08:39 Mon 28 Apr 2008

Folks,

Given the number of requests that Derek and I have had for help in sourcing bottles, please could you pause in your own attempts to find bottles for the Cockburn tasting.

Anyone who has bottles of Cockburn - from any vintage - which do not already appear on the summary list, please send me a PM and let me know what you have and for how much you would be prepared to sell them to us for use in the tasting. You can see the current list of vintages that we have already acquired or which are being brought by attendees here

I am also very aware that this is turning into a much larger tasting than was perhaps originally planned. We currently have one tunnel and the dining area behind the bar booked for us from 6pm. The intention was for the tunnel to be laid out for the tasting and for the preparations and meal to be taken in the dining area behind the bar. However, with this much notice, it would be very easy to extend the reservation to start when the Crusting Pipe opens at 11:30 and for the tasting to start at, say 1pm to give us 1½ hours to decant and pour the tasting samples.

My recollection of the Croft tasting in Boston was that we ran through all 12 ports in one sitting, starting at around 2pm, and then broke for dinner at about 6pm before revisiting the ports and finishing them off over the 5 hour period from 8pm to 1am.

The Crusting Pipe has the advantage that food is available on hand within kitchen hours, but there is likely to be slightly less time available than there was in Boston - but more people to sip the ports.

Derek and I will be discussing formats for the tasting (flights, breaks, glasses etc) once we are closer to the date and can have a clearer idea of the confirmed line-up. In the meantime, if a 1pm start would cause you a problem, please would you let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Alex
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2555
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Post by Andy Velebil » 13:09 Mon 28 Apr 2008

1pm start is good for me

User avatar
Axel P
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1825
Joined: 08:09 Wed 12 Sep 2007
Location: Langenfeld, near Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Post by Axel P » 15:35 Mon 28 Apr 2008

I will arrive at 1440 at Stansted and probably need 1:30 at least from there. So I will join later, but no problem as long as my port is still there and no one of you nasty guys spit in it.

Axel
worldofport.com
o-port-unidade.com

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 16:04 Mon 28 Apr 2008

I can foresee difficulties arising for Christopher here. We have already persuaded him to leave the sanctuary of London and cross the M25 into Never-never Land on a school night in May. The impact of this on the world economy is as yet unknown.

Now we are asking him to attend a Port tasting during the working day. This could cause more panic in The City than they day someone at Northern Rock said "do you think the Bank of England would give us a loan?" :?

:lol:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11947
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Post by AHB » 08:14 Tue 29 Apr 2008

Unfortunately, the 1950 vintage that DRT and AP had been promised by a retailer is no longer available. Fortunately, it has a reputation as probably being the weakest of the vintages that we were expecting to taste. The current list of vintages here has been updated. Efforts continue to add further vintages to the line up.

I'm impressed with Axel's confidence that he will be able to catch up with the tasting after arriving 3½ hours after we start. I'm also aware that a 1pm start may be difficult for Christopher.

However, at the moment we have 13 vintages and that would not be too many for a 4 hour tasting starting from 7pm when shared between 14 people.

The logistics can become a little more definite (or definate for DRT) once the ports are a little clearer.

Alex
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

Simon Lisle
Taylor’s LBV
Posts: 194
Joined: 16:15 Fri 31 Aug 2007

Post by Simon Lisle » 17:35 Thu 01 May 2008

I have found a bottle of 1947 from a merchant £185 if anyone is interested or we could all chip in.

User avatar
Axel P
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1825
Joined: 08:09 Wed 12 Sep 2007
Location: Langenfeld, near Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Post by Axel P » 07:35 Fri 02 May 2008

I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel
worldofport.com
o-port-unidade.com

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 08:46 Fri 02 May 2008

Simon Lisle wrote:I have found a bottle of 1947 from a merchant £185 if anyone is interested or we could all chip in.
Simon,

I have money from a few people who have not been able to supply bottles. Can you please send me details of the merchant or buy it and I will send you the money. Please ask for a condition report and photo of the bottle before parting with the cash :wink:

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2555
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Post by Andy Velebil » 14:05 Fri 02 May 2008

Axel P wrote:I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel
i checked my cellar and I have no 2000/2003 cockburns. So if hard working organizers, AHB and Derek, also agree then I say bring at least the 2000 and 2003 so we can complete the 3-centuries of Port.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 20:26 Fri 02 May 2008

Axel,

I think I already emailed you on this but could you please bring the 2003 and we can use some of the money we have collected to pay you for it.

Thanks.

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
SushiNorth
Martinez 1985
Posts: 1262
Joined: 07:45 Mon 18 Feb 2008
Location: NJ & NY

Post by SushiNorth » 20:59 Fri 02 May 2008

ADV wrote:
Axel P wrote:I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel
i checked my cellar and I have no 2000/2003 cockburns. So if hard working organizers, AHB and Derek, also agree then I say bring at least the 2000 and 2003 so we can complete the 3-centuries of Port.
I just saw some 2000 Cockburn around for a reasonable price, i'll check the usual haunts to see where. I've got one 94 in my basement, but I'd be sad to part with it unless I knew it could replaced.

(and no, despite Conky's generous suggestion, this reply isn't an indication I intend to cross the puddle for the tasting. You've got a full house as it is! I only wanted to provide a hand sourcing :) )

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 21:09 Fri 02 May 2008

SushiNorth wrote: (and no, despite Conky's generous suggestion, this reply isn't an indication I intend to cross the puddle for the tasting. You've got a full house as it is! I only wanted to provide a hand sourcing :) )
SN,

Thanks for the offer but I fear logistics would become an issue. Julian can describe the pain of carrying single bottles across the pond/puddle better than I. I think we already have offeres of all the vinatges you mention from closer to home.

Thanks again.

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
Axel P
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1825
Joined: 08:09 Wed 12 Sep 2007
Location: Langenfeld, near Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Post by Axel P » 21:29 Tue 06 May 2008

ADV, Miguel Corte Real just emailed me, that Cockburn did not declare a 1924 VP. Could you please check the bottle again?

Miguel will participate in the tasting, too. What a great surprise and an honor!

Axel
worldofport.com
o-port-unidade.com

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 21:33 Tue 06 May 2008

Axel P wrote:Miguel will participate in the tasting, too. What a great surprise and an honor!
Fantastic!!

If everyone attends this will make it a tight fit around the table and slightly smaller tasting samples but, IMO, it is well worth those sacrafices to have Miguel as a guest.

Derek

PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20588
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Cockburn 1924

Post by jdaw1 » 22:31 Tue 06 May 2008

Derek T. wrote:PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=13229#13229]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:
Christies, London, 7th June 2007, lot 306 wrote:Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)
And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:
  • It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1924.
  • It’s a different 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1927.
  • It’s something else.
What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?

Conky
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1770
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007

Post by Conky » 22:31 Tue 06 May 2008

Again, not being up on such things, did everyone else know that Miguel Corte-Real is Cockburn's Viticultural & Commercial Director, so any comments he may choose to divulge about Cockburn's has got to be worth a listen.

Thank goodness for Google.

Conky
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1770
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007

Re: Cockburn 1924

Post by Conky » 22:35 Tue 06 May 2008

jdaw1 wrote:
Derek T. wrote:PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=13229#13229]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:
Christies, London, 7th June 2007, lot 306 wrote:Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)
And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:
  • It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1924.
  • It’s a different 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1927.
  • It’s something else.
What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?
My vote would have to be to keep it in. If, as is unlikely, it is a C24, that would be amazing, but even if it wasn't, it is an intriguing anomaly that will entertain all attending.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Cockburn 1924

Post by DRT » 22:38 Tue 06 May 2008

jdaw1 wrote:
Derek T. wrote:PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=13229#13229]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:
Christies, London, 7th June 2007, lot 306 wrote:Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)
And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:
  • It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1924.
  • It’s a different 1924.
  • It’s Fonseca 1927.
  • It’s something else.
What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?
can I suggest that it is taken to AHBs house so that we can examine the bottle on 20 may and then decide what to do with it? Subject of course to ADV wanting his money back now :wink:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2555
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Post by Andy Velebil » 22:45 Tue 06 May 2008

Lets just wait and see what it is. Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle. We got some time, so I'll wait till AHB examines it later this month.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 22:56 Tue 06 May 2008

ADV wrote:Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle.
So we will open it at the Crusting Pipe on 8th October or The Bell on 9th October. Cool. 88) :lol: :wink:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2555
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Post by Andy Velebil » 03:52 Wed 07 May 2008

Derek T. wrote:
ADV wrote:Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle.
So we will open it at the Crusting Pipe on 8th October or The Bell on 9th October. Cool. 88) :lol: :wink:
Yes Sir 88)

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20588
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

The Cockburn? 1924

Post by jdaw1 » 20:23 Wed 07 May 2008

The Cockburn? 1924: father has visited the cellar on behalf of the team. He reports as follows. No label on bottle of Cockburn? 1924. Centre of capsule says “1924†. Bottom of capsule says “Oporto†. At the top of the capsule the first letter is what looks like a “C†, the rest of the word being missing, and the C being in a smaller typeface than the “Oporto†. Position of the C suggests that the C word is longer than “Croft† (that being the only C?-house that Derek’s list says declared ’24), and consistent with it being “Cockburn†. A torch failed to reveal whatever secrets the cork might hold.

Uploading a picture into email lies outside the specification of this model of vintage-1935 Papa.

What next? Andy: still want to keep it? Others: is it allowed or forbidden.

Andy Velebil
Dow 1980
Posts: 2555
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Post by Andy Velebil » 22:20 Wed 07 May 2008

Yes I'll still keep it. I say we open at the offline and see what it is...unless Alex's post 1935 eyes are a tad better and he can make out what it is.

The only other "C" I can think of is Constantinos...which is actually Crasto (they sold the grapes to Constantinos).

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15261
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Post by DRT » 22:45 Wed 07 May 2008

ADV wrote:Yes I'll still keep it. I say we open at the offline and see what it is...unless Alex's post 1935 eyes are a tad better and he can make out what it is.

The only other "C" I can think of is Constantinos...which is actually Crasto (they sold the grapes to Constantinos).
I have no problem with ADV chosing to open this bottle on 8th October, but, given that:
  1. Cockburn's Viticultural & Commercial Director has said that Cockburn did not produce a VP in 1924
  2. Jdaw's Father has confirmed this is a 1924
  3. we are likely to have around 28 bottles of Cockburn VP to taste
  4. Jdaw's Father said 'the C being in a smaller typeface than the “Oporto†'
  5. Fonseca 1924 contains a lower case c
...I start to wonder whether or not it would be a bit of a waste to have a "surprise" bottle of this age at this event?

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

Conky
Fonseca 1980
Posts: 1770
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007

Post by Conky » 23:02 Wed 07 May 2008

I'd love it to be opened on that night. Great Cockburn's and a mystery that just might be(But probably isn't) a real gem. If it transpires it is Fonseca, wont that be an interesting comparison?

Anyway, Andy decides.

Post Reply