Software that makes placemats

Organise events to meet up and drink Port.
User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 14:38 Wed 01 Aug 2012

uncle tom wrote:This looks like a regular A4 tasting sheet to me - I can't see how it could be guillotined to A6..
I think this was to test the concept of the faded circle backgrounds, rather than the A6 format itself.

I was worried tht the backgrounds looked too dark on screen, but printed out they are sufficiently faded that they would not be a distraction from the handwriting.

As an alternative, I would suggest that on each page you could just keep the "G63" motif in big and bold lettering in top left corner and then incorporate the small "Graham 1963" lettering across the top of the page.

Guillotining to A6 will require careful thought about page layout, assuming the pages of the booklet will be double sided (which i think they should be)

Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Rob C.

User avatar
uncle tom
Dow 1980
Posts: 2926
Joined: 23:43 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Near Saffron Walden, England

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 14:54 Wed 01 Aug 2012

Should pages of the booklet be numbered?
That would help the printers make sure they don't screw up..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15253
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 23:46 Wed 01 Aug 2012

RAYC wrote:My take is that this seems to be a lot of effort for no functional benefit over A4 tasting sheets and very little aesthetic benefit. Particularly when 50%+ will never be used.
I think this is the most sensible comment so far in this discussion.

Who are we making these for?

If it is for guests of the type and number that attended our most recent tasting I think they will go largely unused, and if not produced to a very high standard will appear rather naff and not worthy of a keepsake to remember the event. Personally, I would rather that our guests remember us for our Port and our company rather than our prowess at publishing fancy (or naff) tasting note booklets.

If they are being made for large tastings where 12 or 13 out of the 14 attendees are members of TPF they will be of very limited use as most of us either don't take/keep notes or we keep them electronically.

In both scenarios we should also consider how often this software is likely to be used:

>> How many 20+ person, 8-10 guest tastings are we likely to have in the future. I would suggest the answer is close to none.

>> How many TPFers want to carry a book home from a port tasting. I think the answer is probably close to the answer above.

So, is Julian being asked to spend lots of time creating software that will never or almost never be used?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:21 Thu 02 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:I looked at the pages; my comment was "ooh, a Graham's mini-vertical - yes please!"
:-)
uncle tom wrote:This looks like a regular A4 tasting sheet to me - I can't see how it could be guillotined to A6..
RAYC wrote:I think this was to test the concept of the faded circle backgrounds, rather than the A6 format itself.
Correct: that example was just to test the faded replica of the glasses-page circle.
RAYC wrote:I was worried tht the backgrounds looked too dark on screen, but printed out they are sufficiently faded that they would not be a distraction from the handwriting.
Thank you for testing.
RAYC wrote:As an alternative, I would suggest that on each page you could just keep the "G63" motif in big and bold lettering in top left corner and then incorporate the small "Graham 1963" lettering across the top of the page.
So like the ordinary old-fashioned TN sheets, featuring just one port. OK.
RAYC wrote:Guillotining to A6 will require careful thought about page layout, assuming the pages of the booklet will be double sided (which i think they should be)
Some printers’ printers can auto-rearrange pages for guillotining. It is much much easier for me to supply a PDF of A6 pages. Tom, please ask your printer. And I prefer single sided.
RAYC wrote:Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Yes.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:23 Thu 02 Aug 2012

DRT wrote:If it is for guests of the type and number that attended our most recent tasting I think they will go largely unused, and if not produced to a very high standard will appear rather naff and not worthy of a keepsake to remember the event. Personally, I would rather that our guests remember us for our Port and our company rather than our prowess at publishing fancy (or naff) tasting note booklets.
This is a very good argument.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 16:00 Thu 02 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
RAYC wrote:Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Yes.
It is very easy to add parameters
  • /TastingNotesReplaceNameWithPageNum true def
    /TastingNotesPageNumCompoundString [(Page ) {TastingSheetNum 1 add 5 string cvs}] def
which is trivial to code and has a lot of flexibility.

(Note to self: make changes at end of TastingNotesInnerLoop.)

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 22:46 Sat 18 Aug 2012

Done, I think, in that jdawiseman.com/2012/20120818_A6_TN_pages_test.pdf was made using the following parameter changes.

Code: Select all

/TastingNotesPaperType /A6 def

/GlassesOnTastingNotePages [ [ 0 ]  [ 1 ]  [ 2 ]  [ 3 ]  [ 4 ] ] def
/TastingNotesColumnHeadings [ ] def
/TastingNotesColumnRelativeWidths [ ] def
/TastingNotesCirclesBehind true def
/TastingNotesReplaceNameWithPageNum true def


/VoteRecorderPaperType /A4 def

/HeaderCenterText [{TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /TastingNotes ne {(Graham: a small vertical)} if}] def

/HeaderRightText [{TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /TastingNotes eq
	{(Graham: a small vertical)}
	{(www) {-0.092 Kern} (.) {-0.092 Kern} (ThePortForum.com, www) {-0.092 Kern} (.jdawiseman.com)}
	ifelse}
] def

/ExternalLinks [
	(http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=51617#p51617)   (Thread on ThePortForum.com)
	(http://www.jdawiseman.com/2012/20120818_A6_TN_pages_test.pdf)   (Latest version this placemat)
] def
Are the page numbers OK? IS the lightening of the TN pages (no column splits) a good idea?

Arranging multiple A6 pages onto A4 to suit the particular cutting needs of a printer is a task that I am leaving for the printer’s page management software.


This change has had a consequence that might not have been anticipated. The WaterCounts, on the glasses pages, avoid overlapping the name. Previously, for all people the boxes avoided the widest name. I.e., everybody’s boxes were laid out identically. That is no longer true: boxes are now personalised. So ‟Jim” might have fewer wider rows of boxes than ‟Commander James Bond”, who might have shorter rows, but more of them.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 11:32 Sun 19 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:This change has had a consequence that might not have been anticipated. The WaterCounts, on the glasses pages, avoid overlapping the name. Previously, for all people the boxes avoided the widest name. I.e., everybody’s boxes were laid out identically. That is no longer true: boxes are now personalised. So ‟Jim” might have fewer wider rows of boxes than ‟Commander James Bond”, who might have shorter rows, but more of them.
Image Image

Image Image

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15253
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 12:02 Sun 19 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:This change has had a consequence that might not have been anticipated. The WaterCounts, on the glasses pages, avoid overlapping the name. Previously, for all people the boxes avoided the widest name. I.e., everybody’s boxes were laid out identically. That is no longer true: boxes are now personalised. So ‟Jim” might have fewer wider rows of boxes than ‟Commander James Bond”, who might have shorter rows, but more of them.
Good job!

Which tasting is he coming to? Is he bringing Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories, Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 14:30 Mon 20 Aug 2012

Observe that PhilW has used different URLs for the two versions, ‘a’ and ‘b’.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=51640#p51640]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:I have tended to have one name for my placemat files, repeatedly overwritten as updated. You have done versioning. Hmm, a question for elsewhere, but do people need versioning?
Thoughts?

Edit:
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=51650#p51650]Here[/url] PhilW wrote:Habitual due to software releases etc, where source is under version control, but releases (and release candidates) get revision numbers. Not expected to be part of the postscript.

PhilW
Dow 1980
Posts: 2715
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 10:49 Tue 21 Aug 2012

Two suggestions for additional features:

1. Water box formatting
Currently the designer can specify the desired number of water tick boxes, but cannot control the number of bozes per row. In some layouts it would be more aesthetically pleasing to have a 'clump' of boxes rather than a long single line, even if they would fit. Two suggested 'simple' options:
(a) Add a parameter to control the maximum boxes per line, e.g.
/WaterCountTarget 10 def % already provided
/WaterCountRowMax 6 def
(b) Add an optional array parameter to specify the number of bozes per line, e.g.
/WaterCountTarget 10 def % already provided
/WaterCountRows [4 3 2 1] def

2. Packing style selection
Currently the code allows the designer to specify a preferred ordered list of packing styles; User-specified layout can also be used. An additional feature which could be useful in some situations would be the ability to specify on a per-page basis, which of
the list should be used (rather than the program automatically determining this). An example would be a two-page user-specified layout where the style on each page is to be different, e.g.
/PermittedPackingStyles [
[ [2 5] [0 4] [4 4] [2 3] ] % desired layout for glasses page 1
[ [1 1] [0 2] [4 2] [2 1] ] % desired layout for glasses page 2
] def
/EnforcePackingStyles [ 1 2 ] def

n.b. for consistency with other naming, the above variables might perhaps be better renamed as /PackingStylesPermitted and /PackingStylesEnforce

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 10:57 Tue 21 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:Water box formatting
Currently the designer can specify the desired number of water tick boxes, but cannot control the number of bozes per row. In some layouts it would be more aesthetically pleasing to have a 'clump' of boxes rather than a long single line, even if they would fit. Two suggested 'simple' options:
(a) Add a parameter to control the maximum boxes per line, e.g.
/WaterCountTarget 10 def % already provided
/WaterCountRowMax 6 def
(b) Add an optional array parameter to specify the number of bozes per line, e.g.
/WaterCountTarget 10 def % already provided
/WaterCountRows [4 3 2 1] def
Form (b) has two awkwardnesses. First, what if the requested length overlaps a circle. Second, the array needs to be of huge length to cope with all cases. I could avoid this by renaming to /WaterCountMaxRowLengths, with the last item applying to all subsequent rows. Would that be OK? Would this second form be materially more useful than a single integer WaterCountMaxRowLength?

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 11:00 Tue 21 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:Packing style selection
Currently the code allows the designer to specify a preferred ordered list of packing styles; User-specified layout can also be used. An additional feature which could be useful in some situations would be the ability to specify on a per-page basis, which of
the list should be used (rather than the program automatically determining this). An example would be a two-page user-specified layout where the style on each page is to be different, e.g.
/PermittedPackingStyles [
[ [2 5] [0 4] [4 4] [2 3] ] % desired layout for glasses page 1
[ [1 1] [0 2] [4 2] [2 1] ] % desired layout for glasses page 2
] def
/EnforcePackingStyles [ 1 2 ] def

n.b. for consistency with other naming, the above variables might perhaps be better renamed as /PackingStylesPermitted and /PackingStylesEnforce
What about something like

Code: Select all

/PermittedPackingStyles [ {SheetNum 0 eq {/This} {/None} ifelse} ! ]
or even

Code: Select all

/PermittedPackingStyles [ {[/This /That /None] SheetNum get} ! ] def
(where This and That are to be replaced with something else)? (Neither of which need any change to the code.)

PhilW
Dow 1980
Posts: 2715
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 11:23 Tue 21 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:I could avoid this by renaming to /WaterCountMaxRowLengths, with the last item applying to all subsequent rows. Would that be OK? Would this second form be materially more useful than a single integer WaterCountMaxRowLength?
Yes, that sounds good and second form more useful imo.
jdaw1 wrote:What about something like

Code: Select all

/PermittedPackingStyles [ {SheetNum 0 eq {/This} {/None} ifelse} ! ]
Would be fine, so can ignore this one; I tried something similar which was rejected by the parser so thought that might not be allowed for some semantic reason I was missing, but the semantic error was user-based :wink:

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 21:02 Tue 21 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:I could avoid this by renaming to /WaterCountMaxRowLengths, with the last item applying to all subsequent rows. Would that be OK? Would this second form be materially more useful than a single integer WaterCountMaxRowLength?
Yes, that sounds good and second form more useful imo.
+WaterCountMaxRowLengths done.

Easiest way to update your code would be to search for ‟WaterCountMaxRowLengths”, and splice in that line. Then search in the new code for ‟%%%”, copy from there down, and paste into same place in yours. If being pedantic also substitute line 6.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 21:22 Sat 15 Sep 2012

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=46131#p46131]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:I do agree that it would be neater if the two A1s touched. But how should that be expressed that in the parameter?
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=46214#p46214]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:So [ [0 2] [2 2 3 2] [4 2 3 2] [6 2] [0 1] [3 1] [6 1] [0 0] [3 0] [6 0] ] would make the two A1s touch.
Done.
Image

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15253
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 17:41 Sat 22 Sep 2012

On my last trip to Porto and the Douro I purchased a notebook that I intend to use for future trips. I know of others who take the same notebook time after time to use as an immediate source of reference at tastings.

Perhaps it would be good to have the option of a Tasting Summary Sticker that included:

Tasting Name:
Date:
Location:
Attendees:
Wines:

These stickers could then be placed into notebooks in which tasting notes are to be written.

Yes, I know. It's just laziness not to write all of those things directly into the notebook. But not everything produced by the placemats programme is essential, so these would simply be for convenience of those who need them.

Default should be /TastingSummaryStickers = False
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 21:57 Sat 22 Sep 2012

My immediate reaction is not enthusiastic.
DRT wrote:Tasting Name:
Date:
Location:
Attendees:
Wines:
Much of this information isn’t available. Yes, there are headers defined, into which we typically put some of this, but not in a structured way. ‟Tasting Name”, ‟Date”, and ‟Location” will need extra parameters unless reproducing headers is sure to be satisfactory. Attendees are known to the code; as are the ‟Wines” (with the information spread around Circlearrays, Titles, Belowtitles, Abovetitles, and Overtitles). So it seems that this request doesn’t fit the mojo of the rest of the code.

But if others are enthusiastic I’ll reconsider.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15253
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 22:04 Sat 22 Sep 2012

jdaw1 wrote:it seems that this request doesn’t fit the mojo of the rest of the code.
I am unlikely to lose sleep as a result of this suggestion being rejected :)
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 23:29 Tue 25 Sep 2012

In implementing WaterCountMaxRowLengths I forgot to re-include the parameters that control which pages hold water boxes. PhilW remarked on this bug at the Warre versus Fonseca vertical, and in the PM quoted here. It has been remedied, and is regretted.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 20:15 Wed 26 Sep 2012

PhilW, in the PM quoted [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=52243#p52243]here[/url], wrote:
  • Layout was enforced since with minor margin change the default layout was sometimes varying from that intended (rows of 1-2-1-2-1 wanted, default varied between this and 2-2-1-2).
jdaw1, in the [url=http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/placemat/placemat.ps]code[/url], wrote:

Code: Select all

% /PseudoHexagonal trivia: fix the number of glasses at eight, and vary the page's usable Height/Width ratio. At which ratios does the number of rows change?
% 2 -> 3    0.44444444      4 9 div                                                = 4/9
% 3 -> 4    0.68572971      7 sqrt 1 sub 5 mul 12 div                              = (Sqrt(7)-1) * 5/12
% 4 -> 3    0.70562062      35 sqrt 15 sqrt add 2 mul 21 sqrt sub 3 sub 17 div     = ( (Sqrt(35)+Sqrt(15))*2 - Sqrt(21) - 3 ) / 17
% 3 -> 5    1               1                                                      = 1
% 5 -> 4    1.41719214      35 sqrt 15 sqrt sub 2 mul 3 sub 21 sqrt add 4 div      = ( (Sqrt(35)-Sqrt(15))*2 - 3 + Sqrt(21) ) / 4
% 4 -> 5    1.45830052      7 sqrt 1 add 2 mul 5 div                               = (Sqrt(7)+1) * 2/5
% 5 -> 8    2.25            9 4 div                                                = 9/4
Excepting unity these are in pairs of rationalised reciprocals.

So PermittedPackingStyles being [ /PseudoHexagonal ] causes the less elegant four-row arrangement to happen with a height÷width ratio in the narrow range between ½âˆš35 + ¼√21 ”“ ½âˆš15 ”“ ¾ ≈ 1.4172, and â…–(1+√7) ≈ 1.4583.

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 16:51 Wed 17 Oct 2012

http://vintuswines.com/blog/2012/09/ An intersting approach to placemants by Noval - i like!
Rob C.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 20:31 Wed 17 Oct 2012

RAYC wrote:http://vintuswines.com/blog/2012/09/ An intersting approach to placemants by Noval - i like!
I like too.

User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11913
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by AHB » 08:06 Thu 18 Oct 2012

RAYC wrote:http://vintuswines.com/blog/2012/09/ An intersting approach to placemants by Noval - i like!
Round glass bases on a rectangularly divided tasting mat - where the divisions are too small to hold the base of the glass? Hmmm. Not as much to my taste as the current tasting mats we use.
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 20532
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:26 Thu 18 Oct 2012

In [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=52657#p52657]the review of the tasting [i]Mon 15 Oct 2012, The Bung Hole, Delaforce 1958 and friends[/i][/url], jdaw1 wrote:People liked the circle watermarks on the TN sheets. The code has just been changed such that these default to being present.
Image

Post Reply