Sat 18 Apr 2009, New York: Classic years of T, F, W

[RonnieRoots]

• Classic years of Taylor, Fonseca, Warre:
  • 1948:
    • Taylor;
    • Fonseca (not necessarily available might be reserved for non-NY use);
  • 1963:
    • Taylor;
  • 1966:
    • Warre;
    • Taylor;
    • Fonseca;
  • 1977:
    • Warre;
    • Taylor;
    • Fonseca;
  • 1985:
    • Warre;
    • Fonseca.

Is this still the list of available ports for this evening? Should we start a search to fill in the gaps or are we sticking to these?

[jdaw1]

People:

• Definite, or nearly so:
  • jdaw1;
  • RonnieRoots;
  • SushiNorth;
  • g-man;
  • TBird.
• Maybe perhaps I’d like to, but that means probably won’t:
  • JohninNYC;
  • aldukes.

So that’s 10ish bottles, and 6±1 people. The shortage is of people.

[RonnieRoots]

You can add LadyRoots to the list of definite attendees.

[jdaw1]

People:

• Definite, or nearly so:
  • jdaw1;
  • RonnieRoots;
  • Lady Roots;
  • SushiNorth;
  • g-man;
  • TBird.
• Maybe perhaps I’d like to, but that means probably won’t:
  • JohninNYC;
  • aldukes.

So that’s 10ish bottles, and 7±1 people. The shortage is still of people.

[JacobH]

So that’s 10ish bottles, and 7±1 people. The shortage is still of people.

?!?

Surely for "people" read "port"?

[bman]

Ronnie just flagged this offline to me over on the WS forums (thanks Ronnie! ) and my wife and I would love to attend but I doubt that we'll be able to do so due to family commitments. Still, we will immediately increase the number of lottery tickets we buy each week in the hopes of cashing in big enough to fly there for a quick weekend visit.

Ronnie, M - check out NYC/Ottawa/NYC airfares now, please!

And as long as I'm here, Alex, we miss you over at the WS forums!! - if I promise to visit here more often, will you visit there more too?

[RonnieRoots]

Ronnie, M - check out NYC/Ottawa/NYC airfares now, please!

I did, and they're not looking good. Are you sure your son doesn't need an 'educational' trip to the big city?

[bman]

Sadly, my son will still have a week of his co-op work term left so will not be available (he likes NYC though, as do we all). It seems unlikely that we could attend but one never knows - what is the deadline for putting our names in?

I've sent you a private email in any case.

[g-man]

Sadly, my son will still have a week of his co-op work term left so will not be available (he likes NYC though, as do we all). It seems unlikely that we could attend but one never knows - what is the deadline for putting our names in?

I've sent you a private email in any case.

knowing past events. As long as Jdaw1 is near a computer to be able to print out placemats and ensure we have enough glasses to go round =)

[TBird]

still "IN".

i'll be there, any day of the week!

[RonnieRoots]

I tried to make a calculation of cost per bottle and per person for this tasting, as a few people have asked about this. I don't have a pro-subscription to Wine-Searcher, but used the prices that appear on the regular version, and related them to search results on Vinopedia.com, and a number of English merchants (including Wylie, Seckford, Fine&Rare and several others). This leads to the following result (prices in $, excl. sales tax, but I did include duty in the English prices):

• Taylor 1948: 750
• Fonseca 1948: 1920 (only one address where this could be found)
• Taylor 1963: 190
• Warre 1966: 100
• Taylor 1966: 120
• Fonseca 1966: 130
• Warre 1977: 60
• Taylor 1977: 110
• Fonseca 1977: 115
• Warre 1985: 50
• Fonseca 1985: 72,50

I think it doesn't make sense to include Taylor and Fonseca 1948 in the tasting. Prices of these ports are at a level that will scare possible participants. With the current number of participants, Taylor 1963 could also be skipped, which leaves a tasting of 1966, 1977 and 1985 with a total cost of $ 757,50 to be divided by the participants. Should we attract more than 8 participants, we could include the 1963, bringing the total to $ 947,50.

We should also start a search for Taylor 1985. With a bit of luck, this should be possible to find at $ 60, but given that it has to be sourced within the US... probably a bit more.

Julian, if you see any prices in the list that are inaccurate, please let me know.

[jfacciol]

I can't make this tasting but did want to comment on these prices. They are much too low and reflect UK valuations, not US valuations. It costs quite a pretty penny to ship from the UK to the US (including applicable sales tax).

I would hate to see UK pricing (without shipping and sales tax) become the standard for US tastings.

[RonnieRoots]

As I said, I don't have the pro-version of Wine Searcher, so I had to do some looking around. And my sources are mainly British. Someone with a good view on US prices please fill in. Or we could go for the actual prices that jdaw paid for the bottles, works for me as well.

[Glenn E.]

I do have the pro version of Wine Searcher, and it rarely saves more than a buck or two a bottle in the US. If the wine is very rare... then you might save more with the pro version. But for most bottles, the standard version of Wine Searcher is going to get you close enough for the purpose of pricing a tasting.

I can look these bottles up for you if you'd like, but it will have to be tomorrow as I'm past my limit tonight and might mess 'em up.

[jdaw1]

Looking in Wine-Searcher.com/prof for US prices, ignoring auction estimates, and taking the cheapest price at which there are multiple bottles (except for rare ports, for which I take cheapest):

• Taylor 1948 = $850 (cheapest);
• Fonseca 1948 = $1200 (cheapest, next cheapest at $1500 then $1920);
• Taylor 1963 = $180;
• Warre 1966 = $165;
• Taylor 1966 = $180;
• Fonseca 1966 = $230;
• Warre 1977 = $100;
• Taylor 1977 = $140;
• Fonseca 1977 = $210;
• Warre 1985 = $65;
• Fonseca 1985 = $90.

[jfacciol]

These look much more like US prices except for the 1963 Taylor. On Wine-searcher pro this is a bottle with a raised cork, nothing on the capsule and a new label. In other words, it could be anything. After a couple of these suspect bottles, the next non-auction US price is around $250.00.

[jdaw1]

As corrected by Jay:

Looking in Wine-Searcher.com/prof for US prices, ignoring auction estimates, and taking the cheapest price at which there are multiple bottles (except for rare ports, for which I take cheapest):

• Taylor 1948 = $850 (cheapest);
• Fonseca 1948 = $1200 (cheapest, next cheapest at $1500 then $1920);
• Taylor 1963 = $250;
• Warre 1966 = $165;
• Taylor 1966 = $180;
• Fonseca 1966 = $230;
• Warre 1977 = $100;
• Taylor 1977 = $140;
• Fonseca 1977 = $210;
• Warre 1985 = $65;
• Fonseca 1985 = $90.

[RonnieRoots]

Julian, this is exactly why I PM'd you the list first. Would have been better if you reacted there.

[jdaw1]

But I didn’t have a strong opinion! Yes, it would have been better, but I went with the flow for the Graham vertical, and just didn’t have a strong opinion.

[RonnieRoots]

Alright. They're your ports, so you decide. I'm fine with whatever way costs are calculated.

I will also start a search for Taylor 1985, unless someone else has this in his/her collection.

[SushiNorth]

we're at $170/person before food and not counting 48, and there's still a bottle missing?

[RonnieRoots]

we're at $170/person before food and not counting 48, and there's still a bottle missing?

Well, I think it would make sense to skip the 1963, so that we have a full comparison of Taylor, Fonseca, Warre 1966, 1977, 1985. But for doing that, we would indeed need to find the Taylor 1985. But still, it would bring the cost down somewhat.

[g-man]

were shall we hold this tasting btw ? =)

[jdaw1]

Notwithstanding the work-in-progress called Discussion: Guide to cost sharing of bottles, costs need to be determined. Market value has considerable merit. But, for there is a but, I am likely to move to the old world. That makes me, in some sense, a forced seller. (Not thoroughly forced, but let’s ignore that.) Which should diminish prices.

So what about my using cost price this time being a ‘forced seller’?

• Taylor 1948? Part of a mixed lot:

  Barros Vintage 1947 (1); Barros Vintage 1952 (1); Taylor Vintage 1948, levels: one into neck and one top shoulder; one protruding cork, one torn capsule, one cracked wax capsule (2); Fonseca Vintage 1948, damp stained label (1); Croft Vintage 1977 (1)

  What a motley crew! How about $240 for the top-shoulder T48, and twice that for the into neck?
• Fonseca 1948? I might need this in the UK, so ‟lot withdrawn”.
• Taylor 1963? I overpaid for this one, so back to wine-searcher’s $250.
• Warre 1966 and Fonseca 1966?

  Warres Vintage 1966, levels: bottom neck; damp stained labels, embossed capsules (3); Fonseca Vintage 1966 levels: one into neck, two bottom neck and one very top shoulder, Bottled by Peatling & Cawdron, King's Lynn; Peatling & Cawdron capsules and labels, heavily soiled bottles (4)

  How about $150 for the F66, and $126 for the W66? VFM?
• Taylor 1966? An administrative SNAFU means that I have no record of where I bought this or how much it cost, so stick at $180.
• Warre 1977? A mixed lot of ten different wines, so estimation of a ‘cost price’ just doesn’t work. Say $90?
• Taylor 1977? A different massively-mixed lot, so stick at $140?
• Fonseca 1977? Those mixed lots don’t help: $150?
• Warre 1985? Wine-searcher us too cheap for me to think about this: $65.
• Fonseca 1985? Bought for forgotten-how-much from Benchmark, so stick at $90.

Is that fair? Does that make everybody happy?

[jdaw1]

Separately, as Jeff almost asked, where should this be held? With a new-born and a three-year-old, my apartment will be a no-go.