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1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Posted: 23:50 Sun 03 Nov 2013
by flash_uk
This thread was started by DRT. But DRT has asked flash_uk to take over the planning and arrangement of this tasting. So authorship of the first post has been changed by jdaw1 to allow the new organiser to edit the first post. Yes, the date of this first post is before the date of flash_uk joining ThePortForum.

1997 was widely declared and has now reached an age where it would traditionally have been considered old enough to drink. We do not have much experience of this vintage here but I suspect many of us have cases from various shippers and have no idea how they are maturing. Should we do the Port world a service and taste a representative selection from this vintage?

--------------------end of original post------------------

Date: Monday 16 June 2014
Place: The Bung Hole at 57 High Holborn, London WC1V 6DT, +44 20 7831 8365 (streetmap.co.uk, maps.google.co.uk, bing.com).

Attendees confirmed:
  1. MPM — Cockburn, Gould Campbell, Infantado, Morgan, Smith Woodhouse, Warre;
  2. JDAW — Offley, Sandeman, Sandeman Vau Double Magnum, Sandeman Vau Single;
  3. AWGH = Anthony Habert of Stevens Garnier;
  4. DJ;
  5. IJ (DJ Snr);
  6. THRA — Vesuvio & Croft Roeda;
  7. CPR1 — Graham;
  8. IDJ — Dow, Ferreira & Ramos Pinto;
  9. CMAG — Noval;
  10. AHB — Martinez;
  11. DaveRL — Fonseca & Taylor;
  12. RDA (cedars28).
Waiting list:
  1. AA (RDA Snr).
Ports likely to be present:
  1. Cockburn — MPM;
  2. Croft Roeda — THRA;
  3. Dow — IDJ;
  4. Ferreira — IDJ;
  5. Fonseca — DaveRL;
  6. Gould Campbell — MPM;
  7. Graham — CPR1;
  8. Quinta do Infantado — MPM;
  9. Martinez — AHB;
  10. Morgan — MPM;
  11. Quinta do Noval — CMAG;
  12. Offley — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  13. Quinta do Passadouro — Kindly donated by VintageWineAndPort.co.uk;
  14. Ramos Pinto — IDJ;
  15. Sandeman — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  16. Sandeman Vau, Double Magnum — JDAW;
  17. Sandeman Vau, Single — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  18. Smith Woodhouse — MPM;
  19. Taylor — DaveRL;
  20. Quinta do Vesuvio — THRA;
  21. Warre — MPM


Current draft of the placemats.
Image Image

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 01:19 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by jdaw1
Please include me.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 01:47 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by djewesbury
I misread this as 1977 initially and was confused. I'd happily take part if I can.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 05:40 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by Andy Velebil
If not in a hurry. Would like to join in this tasting. At some point in 2014 I'll be back in the UK.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 05:56 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by TLW
Just tried a 1997 Graham, and it is definitely nowhere near ready. That being said, if I am in London at the time you hold the tasting, will happily contribute a bottle or three from the major houses.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 07:59 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
OK - we have enough interest so I have updated the first post.

I only have the Roeda to hand and do not intend removing cases from storage for this so might pick up some others over the next few months.

Please declare what you have.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 15:18 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by Deleted_User_1
Include me please...I have Fonseca and Barros.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 15:22 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:might pick up some others over the next few months.
If it's generally thought that this is OK for such a young tasting then I will probably do likewise. Will advise.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 15:39 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
Cookie wrote:Include me please...I have Fonseca and Barros.
Done.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 15:40 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:might pick up some others over the next few months.
If it's generally thought that this is OK for such a young tasting then I will probably do likewise. Will advise.
Good boy.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 16:15 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by CPR 1
Count me in please (dates permitting) - I will bring a bottle of Graham

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 16:54 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
CPR 1 wrote:Count me in please (dates permitting) - I will bring a bottle of Graham
First post updated.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 19:34 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by Alex Bridgeman
Depending on when, count me in too - even if only so I can sit in the corner and lecture everyone at the pointlessness of trying to drink Vintage Port at under 21 years of age (new release port excluded). I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 19:37 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by djewesbury
AHB wrote:Depending on when, count me in too - even if only so I can sit ion the corner and lecture everyone at the pointlessness of trying to drink Vintage Port at under 21 years of age (new release port excluded). I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.
Perhaps the thing about 97 will be that it's maturing early. Maybe we'll have to drink up soon..? Worth checking. Just to be on the safe side.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 19:47 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by RAYC
I'm in the AHB camp!

Ramos Pinto was very nice earlier this year and - of the usual big established names - the best "current drinker" from the vintage that i have had (albeit i have not yet had Noval 97). Sandeman 97 was also drinking nicely at BFT 2012, and Taylor 97 surprisingly approachable at BBR Walkaround 2011.

I've made my way through most of these over the last couple of years and don't have a burning desire to repeat, so will leave places at this tasting for others to use. However, happy to join in nearer the time if there's still space and extra people are wanted to enable a broader selection.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 21:55 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by idj123
Please include me-I can put up Dow,Ferreira and QdV

Ian

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 22:51 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
AHB wrote:I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.
You have described the point of this tasting perfectly. There is nothing to be gained in leaving this or any other vintage to sail past its prime drinking window. Periodic evaluation allows as to identify shippers that should be drunk-up sooner rather than later and those who should be left to sleep for a decade or more.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 22:53 Mon 04 Nov 2013
by DRT
RAYC wrote:I'm in the AHB camp!
Excellent. That means that, like AHB, you completely understand the point of doing this. 88)

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 00:12 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by TLW
If able to attend, I can bring any of Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Niepoort, Taylor, or Warre. Could also bring a 1996 Guimarens for comparison.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 09:23 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by Alex Bridgeman
I don't have much 1997 on hand - most of it being in storage until its 21st birthday, of course.

What I do have is Martinez, Vesuvio and Warre. (I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 10:47 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by jdaw1
AHB wrote:(I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)
I have two of the ’97 Vau double magnums to hand, which were at risk of being drunk at Christmas. Derek: if one is wanted for this tasting, speak soon. There could be decanting variations.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 12:29 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by Axel P
My suggestion would be to compare 94 and 97. Dont you think that this might make sense? As the 94s turn 20years next year. Since they are not too expensive even a comparateable tasting should be somewhat reasoneable.

Please put me in

Axel

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 14:32 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by Andy Velebil
I have a variety of 1997's in the cellar to add to this tasting.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 17:20 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by jdaw1
Axel P wrote:My suggestion would be to compare 94 and 97. Dont you think that this might make sense? As the 94s turn 20years next year. Since they are not too expensive even a comparateable tasting should be somewhat reasoneable.
Part of DRT’s stated purpose is to test which shippers, perhaps minor shippers, need to be drunk soon, and which shippers need patience. Including the minor shippers means this event might have 20+ bottles. Doubling that to include the ’94s might be, well, fabulous, but also hard work.

If that is correct DRT to comment then this should be just ’97s. I like the idea of 1994-versus-1997, but on a different day.

Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Posted: 23:56 Tue 05 Nov 2013
by DRT
jdaw1 wrote:
AHB wrote:(I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)
I have two of the ’97 Vau double magnums to hand, which were at risk of being drunk at Christmas. Derek: if one is wanted for this tasting, speak soon. There could be decanting variations.
Yes, please. One decanted into various bottle sizes using various methods of filtration and one decanted into various bottle sizes Audouze.
AHB wrote:I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big
No, it isn't. Please decant freehand into a single container.