1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Organise events to meet up and drink Port.
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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 23:29 Tue 13 May 2014

You are chief organiser. Please simplify administration by saying “sighted”.

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 23:34 Tue 13 May 2014

jdaw1 wrote:You are chief organiser. Please simplify administration by saying “sighted”.
Sighted :)
There will be enough to do without blinding, and considering the experience a few of us had recently with the 1994 tasting, I doubt we would be able to impart much wisdom upon our guesses with blind!

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 11:55 Wed 14 May 2014

FYI, my previous 1997 horizontal: Sandeman Vau; Quinta da Eira Velha; Offley Boa Vista; Placemats.

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 21:03 Wed 14 May 2014

Well...the line-up for the evening is bouncing around a bit. All the majors are sorted, the last 2 or 3 to make up the 18 are moving around. Surprising that I can't find Offley, Quarles Harris, Churchill or Sandeman. Still searching, but have found some others to stand in.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 00:43 Thu 15 May 2014

flash_uk wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:And please may I edit the first post to add placemats and images thereof?
Of course, and thank you.
Just to help me, I have put the ports into customary alphabetical order (so not all Quintas are with the Q’s), and added placemat images.

I’m endeavouring to obtain the hitherto unobtainable Sandeman and Offley. Endeavouring.

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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 11:48 Fri 16 May 2014

jdaw1 wrote:endeavouring to obtain the hitherto unobtainable Sandeman and Offley.
Stevens Garnier are on task, and optimistic that they will be able to obtain Sandeman, Offley, and Ferreira. (Yes, I know. Yes, I ignored.)

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by idj123 » 13:07 Fri 16 May 2014

As mentioned in my original post re this tasting, I have Ferreira and so am happy to provide if a gap in the 18 requires filling.

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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 15:07 Fri 16 May 2014

idj123 wrote:As mentioned in my original post re this tasting, I have Ferreira and so am happy to provide if a gap in the 18 requires filling.
Ooops. Sandeman and Offley are important though.

First post shows placemats assuming availability of new printing technology: A2.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 16:19 Fri 16 May 2014

Gents,

I have put myself on a self-imposed alcohol ban for the next 5 weeks and will therefore be unable to attend this event.

Please give my seat to someone on the reserve list.

I have just re-visited the first post since the early days of the organisation and am bemused as to why I offered a Croft Roeda 1997 as I have never owned one. I can only assume I spotted one online that I intended buying and then forgot.

I will happily pay someone the cost of a Croft Roeda if anyone has one to hand. If not I will arrange to have one at the tasting in my absence.

If the seats cannot be filled and my ££ are required to avoid extra cost to others please let me know.

Apologies for the withdrawal but there are good reasons for me to do this.

DRT
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 19:05 Fri 16 May 2014

There might be a “JDAW’s +1”.

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djewesbury
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by djewesbury » 20:24 Fri 16 May 2014

Sorry, the dissertation marking is coming in thick and fast and I have neglected this thread somewhat. What can I adopt?
Daniel J.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by PhilW » 20:59 Fri 16 May 2014

DRT wrote:I have put myself on a self-imposed alcohol ban for the next 5 weeks and will therefore be unable to attend this event.
I will happily pay someone the cost of a Croft Roeda if anyone has one to hand. If not I will arrange to have one at the tasting in my absence.
If no attendees have one handy, I have one bottle of CrR97 (the only bottle of '97 I own!) which could be dropped off at TBH on the 3rd June, since I will not be attending the '97 event, provided I knew in advance.

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DRT
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 21:47 Fri 16 May 2014

PhilW wrote:If no attendees have one handy, I have one bottle of CrR97 (the only bottle of '97 I own!) which could be dropped off at TBH on the 3rd June, since I will not be attending the '97 event, provided I knew in advance.
Thank you, Phil, but Tom has just offered to donate a Cr97 to fill the gap.

Thank you, Tom.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 12:00 Sat 17 May 2014

flash_uk and DRT and jdaw1 wrote:Ports likely to be present:
  1. Cockburn — MPM;
  2. Croft Roeda — THRA;
  3. Dow — IDJ;
  4. Ferreira — IDJ or JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  5. Fonseca — DaveRL;
  6. Gould Campbell — MPM;
  7. Graham — CPR1;
  8. Quinta do Infantado — MPM;
  9. Martinez — AHB;
  10. Morgan — MPM;
  11. Quinta do Noval — CMAG;
  12. Offley — maybe JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  13. Quinta do Passadouro — Kindly donated by VintageWineAndPort.co.uk;
  14. Ramos Pinto — IDJ;
  15. Sandeman — maybe JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  16. Sandeman Vau — JDAW;
  17. Smith Woodhouse — MPM;
  18. Taylor — DaveRL;
  19. Quinta do Vesuvio — THRA;
  20. Warre — RDA?
We should divide the Ports into flights, and by a better criterion than alphabetical. Suggestions?

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 14:05 Sat 17 May 2014

jdaw1 wrote:We should divide the Ports into flights, and by a better criterion than alphabetical. Suggestions?
I have an idea but will need to research and test it to determine if it would deliver an even split. Will need to wait until I have access to big screen and keyboard.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 15:36 Sat 17 May 2014

flash_uk wrote:I have an idea but will need to research and test it to determine if it would deliver an even split. Will need to wait until I have access to big screen and keyboard.
An even split not needed. Indeed, splitting into pieces of three to five would facilitate discussion and analysis.

Geography?

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 16:33 Sat 17 May 2014

jdaw1 wrote:
flash_uk wrote:Geography?
Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 17:31 Sat 17 May 2014

flash_uk wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
flash_uk wrote:Geography?
Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...
Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 17:51 Sat 17 May 2014

DRT wrote:
flash_uk wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
flash_uk wrote:Geography?
Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...
Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.
I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste, just a way of splitting 20 ports up that isn't random!

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 18:02 Sat 17 May 2014

flash_uk wrote:I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste
Don't say that to someone in the Douro - you will be tarred and feathered!!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by jdaw1 » 20:01 Sat 17 May 2014

DRT wrote:Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.
Better suggestions welcomed.

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flash_uk
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 20:24 Sat 17 May 2014

DRT wrote:
flash_uk wrote:I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste
Don't say that to someone in the Douro - you will be tarred and feathered!!
Come on, you know what I mean. Maybe I'll make the point more accurate. I wasn't thinking of using a geographic delineation as a means to make any inference on taste.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 23:51 Sat 17 May 2014

jdaw1 wrote:Better suggestions welcomed.
Perhaps group by expectation of greatness*:

Flight 1: Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Noval, Taylor, Warre, Vesuvio.

Flight 2: Ferreira, Gould Campbell, Ramos Pinto, Sandeman, Sandeman Vau**, Smith Woodhouse.

Flight 3: Cockburn, Croft Roeda, Infantado, Martinez, Morgan, Offley, Passadouro.

*expectation based on reputation of VP from each house in the relevant time period - e.g. Cockburn expected to be rubbish.
**possibly should be in flight 3 but sensible to taste alongside the full blend Sandeman.

A very subjective selection but it would give the opportunity to taste each against wines of a similar expected standard and (probably) price point.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by djewesbury » 13:44 Sun 18 May 2014

This is tricky. We would expect Cockburn to be rubbish, but might find the Passadouro very good. Yet it ends up in a group with some wines that can only be expected to show poorly.
Daniel J.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by DRT » 16:14 Sun 18 May 2014

djewesbury wrote:This is tricky. We would expect Cockburn to be rubbish, but might find the Passadouro very good. Yet it ends up in a group with some wines that can only be expected to show poorly.
But isn't this only for the first pass? There would be time to shuffle the pack post-dinner to put the good, the bad and the ugly into their real groups.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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