It seems a good time to go to Portugal!

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 20:04 Thu 12 Jul 2007

The Gorgeous Deborah, and her good looking Beau, are off to Portugal from the 6th - 13th September.

We're staying at some 5 star Hotel (Solverde)10mins from the Gaia. Now apart from bragging, the reason I bring this up is the price.
Accomodation (B&B) and flights come in at less than £750 for two! I'd heard the Holiday market was straining, and doing good deals, but I can now confirm its true. Debs is so pleased, she's agreed to do a few days in Gaia and Oporto at the Port Houses. She's even asking about a Duoro Boat trip. Happy days.
If anyone has any tips or places to visit in that general vicinity, please chirp up. I was in the Algarve in May, so I know the unfortunate rip off prices of beer and Port. When you read the reviews of the Hotel we are going to, although they're all generally glowing and positive, it again points out that a pint of beer is over £3 in the Hotel, and £1 in all the nearby Pubs.

Alan

Post by **DRT** » 22:49 Thu 12 Jul 2007

Alan,

I'm sure you will have a great time but I will warn you that there is virtually nothing of interest in VNG for someone who doesn't want to hear about port. You need to ration yourself on the lodge tours if you are to avoid the Gorgeous Deborah drowning you in the Douro

Most of the tours follow the same script. 20-30 minutes round the cellar with a tour guide who tells you what port is, how it's made, and why theirs is better than anyone else's. You are then offered 2 or 3 glasses of basic port to taste. Don't refuse as it may offend.

Like all good theme parks the exit is usually at the other end of a gift shop

Some charge a 2 or 3 Euro entrance fee and then discount that from anything you buy on the way out. Most are free entry.

From my notes of my trip a few years ago I remember Croft as being the most interesting lodge tour. Far less formal than the others and you actually get to see people working, not just a tour of what they want the tourists to see.

Graham's and Taylor's are a bit of a hike up the hill but worth the effort for the views alone. As you would expect from the big boys, they also put on a decent tour and selection of ports for you to taste. My notes from Graham's reveal 7 different ports before 11:0am

Calem is the first lodge you come to when you cross the bridge from Oporto. It's rubbish. Walk straight past it and cross the road. You can then have a nice steak and chips in an outdoor restaurant on the grass bank of the Douro

Sandeman do a good tour, especially if you pay a small fee for the special one which is longer, gives you more info and more samples

Ramos Pinto have a very nice museum that is worth a visit. A taste of the old world.

The Noval shop has strange opening hours but try to get there as they have the best prices I have seen anywhere for Noval and Nacional wines, apart from things like 1963 which get a bit on the high side.

According to the notes I took, Jo thought the tour guide at Taylor's was the best looking of the lot. Debs may like Taylor's

- My vote went to a lovely young lady at Croft. Pure coincidence that this was my favourite tour

Have fun

Derek

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 23:15 Thu 12 Jul 2007

Well done Alan!

Derek already gave some very good tips. If you want to see some smaller lodges next to the big boys, I can recommend Kopke and Krohn. At both, you'll have a chance to taste some decent older colheitas/tawnies (Krohn charges a fee for older colheitas, but at Kopke they were free after showing some interest).

I always like going to the Solar do Vinho do Porto, the port bar of the IVDP. It's in the Parque de Cristal on the Oporto side. The view on the city from there is astonishing, and the ports are good too. First time we were there, StevieCage, LadyR and I enjoyed a wonderful bottle of Cockburn 1983.

Todd P · Post by **Todd P** » 06:43 Fri 13 Jul 2007

One word Alan - PICTURES!

I'd tell you to "have fun" but it would be a waste of typing. I know you will!

Todd

Jay P · Post by **Jay P** » 07:21 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Be sure to check ot Vinologia, just over the double bridge across the river. A great opportunity to try a wide variety of ports.

I thought Sandeman and Ramos Pinto were the most interesting for non port fanatics and, as Derek suggested, Ramos Pinot is very old world and very cool just for the tiles and old advertising pictures they have. If your nice they may even give you a book on their old and suprisingly risque (for the time) posters.

If you want some trademarked trinkets then Grahams would be a good bet.

Jay

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 09:58 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Thanks for your suggestions, keep them coming, if there are any more.

I found this Map of all the Quinta's. (in case your confused, just click on any of the 3 blank segments, and away you go) Interesting site. It seems to be an organisation who may help you organise the Port end of a visit.

I wont be able to go at it in that depth, but interesting all the same.

Alan

Luc · Post by **Luc** » 05:38 Sat 14 Jul 2007

Lucky dog !! Pictures and details . . .

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 06:58 Sat 14 Jul 2007

You have to stop by Avepod and have a few wines with Maria Theresa. She is a great person and has some very interesting wines to taste.

Don't buy anything at Gaia, appart at the lodges. If the Noval shop is closed, ring at the door to the right of the shop. It is their office and employees will be happy to assists you. If you want to buy some Nacional, you better plan with them before because they do not always have them in stock on place.

If you ever get near Pinhao and want to have a lunch or dinner with me, send me a PM I'll be there between the 5th and 18th of September.

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 07:23 Sat 14 Jul 2007

Thanks Fred, and a gracious offer. Were staying in a Hotel between Oporto and Espinho. We're currently weighing up wether to hire a car for the week. If we do and find out a bit more about the geography and feasibility, we might take you up on it. Thanks again.

Alan

Post by **DRT** » 10:00 Sat 14 Jul 2007

Alan,

My advice would be not to drive into the Douro. You will get lost - no doubt about it. AHB and I had a nightmare journey in a taxi going into the Douro last October. It is just not a nice place to have to drive.

If you want a great experience and an oportunity to share some port with Fred you should get the train to Pinhao - stunning views and no drinking and driving inssues to worry about

Derek

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 03:17 Sun 15 Jul 2007

You must have been drinking driving Derek

Going to the Douro is quite easy to drive. You can take the highway up to Peso de Regua, then there is only one road on each side of the river. The tough part is getting out of Porto. There is always construction everywhere and detour that are really not clear!!

But this year I'll not have a car, I'll take the train and the taxi in the Douro.

Post by **DRT** » 09:18 Sun 15 Jul 2007

Fred,

I haven't driven in the Douro. My impression of that experience was formed during a trip in a taxi that can only be described as one of the most horrific experiences of my life. AHB and I were collected at the airport and driven to Quinta do Crasto by the maddest man in Portugal. The highlight of the trip was when he decided to stop in the fast lane of the motorway out of Oporto to make a phone call

He then proceeded to drive us around some very narrow winding roads in the Douro, mostly with Alpine-like drops on one side, whilst looking at us in the back seat and not looking out the front window. I don't think I have ever been so scared as a passenger in a car as I was that day. Luckily there were a couple of dozen glasses of port waiting for me at Crasto to make me feel better

Alan, I would still advise you to take the train and enjoy the scenery - and a few glasses of port

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 12:46 Sun 15 Jul 2007

Having listened to Two wise old Sage's, who know, because they've been there.

I've carefully considered the strength of your respective points, and if the Gorgeous Deborah and I do decide to travel, we have decided this is the suitable form of transport!

Post by **DRT** » 12:55 Sun 15 Jul 2007

Excellent

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 17:21 Sun 15 Jul 2007

Derek, taking a taxi in Portugal is always a challenge, I don't think I would risk one in the Douro, I'd rather drive myself.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 03:41 Mon 16 Jul 2007

Portuguese are in a real hast when they are on the road. They are so much nice people outside the car and get mad very quick inside of it. There is a lot of fatal accident in the Douro because of the speed they drive. I've been in the Douro with a Portuguese driving us and yes it was a bit crazy taking somes curves at 80km/h. You are just praying that no one is coming ahead and that you're not going to slip on some clay that got on the road.

But having take a taxi in the Douro(was very smooth) and being driven by some canadians, I'd say that these are safe roads, it must really depends on the driver.

Maybe I'm suicidal but I'll be taking the taxi during 2 weeks while I'll be in the Douro.

P.S. I'll not post his name but there was a winemaker that got me up the hill of the Quinta on a very wet and slippery day after he had not spit at least 10 wines. He was not even bottering buckling his seatbelt. Up the hill we had more wines... I was a bit feeling seasick while we head down. YES Portuguese are not the best drivers!!

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 13:14 Mon 16 Jul 2007

I must admit, that taxi driver we had was a complete and utter lunatic. So much so that Derek and I seriously considered paying twice the amount to get back from the Douro to the airport as we had paid for the return journey from the Airport to the Douro and back.

The taxi driver didn't even know how to get to the airport in Oporto and had to stop on a couple of occasions to ask for directions. Derek and I had thought that the large signs saying "Aeroporto" would have been a clue, but our driver decided to defy governmental advice and find his own route.

That experience was horrible and was not something that I would want to repeat. If the three days that we spent in the Douro had not been so spectacular the trip would have been a nightmare.

By contrast, the driver of the mini-bus that Roy had hired was superb. He drove smoothly and safely and not particularly quickly - just what was needed after a night full of port and Douro wines.

Alex