Wine and Covid

[CPR 1]

An interesting article my local wine shop directed me to;

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2022/ ... udy-finds/

Does the logic hold true for Port?

[SushiNorth]

I certainly won't miss another excuse to open a bottle, but correlation is not causation. Wine tends to be more popular amongst those with higher education, and vaccines tend to be more popular amongst those with higher education. Just as likely a scenario...

[PhilW]

Indeed, without more detail could easily be correlation; perhaps people tend to drink wine in the company of less people than they drink beer with, on average; etc.
Interesting, but am awful lot more detail wanted from the study on their data and analysis methods.

[jdaw1]

It is very simple to judge such studies.

• If conclusion reached is desirable to the reader, then the study is definitely true and perhaps worthy of a Medicine Nobel Prize.

• If conclusion reached is undesirable to the reader, the the study is flawed because it ignores a confounding correlation.

[flash_uk]

I certainly won't miss another excuse to open a bottle, but correlation is not causation. Wine tends to be more popular amongst those with higher education, and vaccines tend to be more popular amongst those with higher education. Just as likely a scenario...

Except that vaccines for Covid don’t prevent infection, so vaccine status not relevant when examining infections…

[PhilW]

It is very simple to judge such studies.

• If conclusion reached is desirable to the reader, then the study is definitely true and perhaps worthy of a Medicine Nobel Prize.

• If conclusion reached is undesirable to the reader, the the study is flawed because it ignores a confounding correlation.

On which basis I should have simply accepted the premise instead of querying the validity.
Sadly it seems that a large majority of people will believe what is said simply because they want it to be true, and only ever challenge statements in opposition rather than all supporting and opposing claims equally. Which is what you were saying, so I'll shut up now.

[PhilW]

Except that vaccines for Covid don’t prevent infection, so vaccine status not relevant when examining infections…

Interesting point Mike; I hadn't appreciated that vaccines in general are intended to prevent disease and do not necessarily protect against infection (some do, some don't, apparently). This is also a great example of a scientifically valid statement which will be leapt upon by the antivax community and used to imply that vaccines for Covid don't prevent and/or reduce symptomatic illness, which is of course if not what is being said, and would be completely refuted by the scientific studies. I wonder whether the linked news article was being as specifically accurate; I would suggest it would have been useful of them to clarify (asymptomatic) infection vs disease/symptoms/illness. As you imply however, another reason to question exactly what is being stated, and the exact evidence being used to draw the conclusion.

[SushiNorth]

Except that vaccines for Covid don’t prevent infection, so vaccine status not relevant when examining infections…

Interesting point Mike; I hadn't appreciated that vaccines in general are intended to prevent disease and do not necessarily protect against infection (some do, some don't, apparently). This is also a great example of a scientifically valid statement which will be leapt upon by the antivax community and used to imply that vaccines for Covid don't prevent and/or reduce symptomatic illness, which is of course if not what is being said, and would be completely refuted by the scientific studies. I wonder whether the linked news article was being as specifically accurate; I would suggest it would have been useful of them to clarify (asymptomatic) infection vs disease/symptoms/illness. As you imply however, another reason to question exactly what is being stated, and the exact evidence being used to draw the conclusion.

Agreed, my interpretation was that they likely meant "reduced chance of symptomatic infection" rather than "alternative for plexiglass"

I had a long talk with my kids to help them understand the difference between masks and vaccines. The former blocks/reduces viral load to the point where casual immune response can cope, the latter increases the body's readiness to respond. I've always thought of alcohol as an inhibitor of proper immune system response, and abstained for a while after vaccination to ensure the body could learn what it needed to.

Meanwhile, numbers in NJ are finally dropping and a storm is on the horizon. There's always Port in a storm here

[uncle tom]

I recall, eighteen months ago, it being observed that there had never previously been an effective vaccine against any corona type virus.

The confidence in finding a vaccine therefore seemed a tad optimistic.

Then the first trial results appeared, and they were hailed, unequivocally, as being able to substantially reduce infection risk.

But then they didn't really deliver that and the narrative changed to 'but they only reduce severity' - which was emphatically not what we were told when they were launched.

I've gone with the flow and have been triple jabbed - I've not knowingly had the bug, but several of those close to me have, despite vaccination.

It seems to me that that the powers-that-be have been more than a little disingenuous over the past two years.

We still don't seem to have an effective vaccine against a corona type virus - but I have studiously kept taking the liquid medicine - which might, just possibly, have given me more protection than anything stuck in my arm..

[flash_uk]

I recall, eighteen months ago, it being observed that there had never previously been an effective vaccine against any corona type virus.

The confidence in finding a vaccine therefore seemed a tad optimistic.

Then the first trial results appeared, and they were hailed, unequivocally, as being able to substantially reduce infection risk.

But then they didn't really deliver that and the narrative changed to 'but they only reduce severity' - which was emphatically not what we were told when they were launched.

I've gone with the flow and have been triple jabbed - I've not knowingly had the bug, but several of those close to me have, despite vaccination.

It seems to me that that the powers-that-be have been more than a little disingenuous over the past two years.

We still don't seem to have an effective vaccine against a corona type virus - but I have studiously kept taking the liquid medicine - which might, just possibly, have given me more protection than anything stuck in my arm..

I am 73.8% of the way through a blog on this very topic, Tom, which I will happily share with anyone who is interested in reading it (if I ever get the damn thing finished!).

[Andy Velebil]

We still don't seem to have an effective vaccine against a corona type virus - but I have studiously kept taking the liquid medicine - which might, just possibly, have given me more protection than anything stuck in my arm..

As did I and it worked for over a year, until Dec 20th, 2021. Then it must have been the low octane liquid medicine the previous week that failed me. Therefor, I declare with scientific certainty, and if one person here agrees its been peer-reviewed as well, that one should only drink liquid medicine whose content is 19% or greater ABV.