Software that makes placemats

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Glenn E.
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 17:11 Tue 21 May 2013

For the record, I have been following the /PermittedPackingStyles discussion and am happy with the direction it has taken. I've just been busy and so haven't been online in time to make relevant comments.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 18:09 Tue 21 May 2013

Glenn E. wrote:/DodrantPerimeter?
As I don’t understand this, even with Google’s help, no.

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djewesbury
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 18:30 Tue 21 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:/DodrantPerimeter?
As I don’t understand this, even with Google’s help, no.
‟They are of divers heights, as of 12, 13, or 14 dodrants, the dodrant being a measure of 9 inches; and some say that an elephant is bigger than three wild oxen or buffaloes.”
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 21:52 Tue 21 May 2013

Failing cogent objection, I propose to name /Arch the base style of which the following are canonical examples.
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
There is also a need to name the sub-parameter controlling the number of things in the centre. Candidates include /ExtraCircles and /ExtraGlasses.

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djewesbury
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Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 21:55 Tue 21 May 2013

I like these. What about /CentreCircles? Perhaps the Americans won't like that..
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Glenn E.
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 23:33 Tue 21 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:/DodrantPerimeter?
As I don’t understand this, even with Google’s help, no.
‟They are of divers heights, as of 12, 13, or 14 dodrants, the dodrant being a measure of 9 inches; and some say that an elephant is bigger than three wild oxen or buffaloes.”
If Wikipedia is to be believed, dodrant is the Latin prefix for 3/4 in the same way that semi is the prefix for 1/2.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 23:51 Tue 21 May 2013

Glenn E. wrote:If Wikipedia is to be believed, dodrant is the Latin prefix for 3/4 in the same way that semi is the prefix for 1/2.
Fantastic. But an ellipse occupies ¼π ≈ 0.785398163397448309615660845819875721049292349843776455243736148076954101571552249657 ≠ ¾ of its bounding rectangle.

So no.

Separately, for every other base style the radius can be found analytically. But not for /Arch, which requires an interval-bisection iteration, and in a loop within that, a more complicated iteration. Given the limits of PostScript’s single-precision arithmetic, I think that the chosen radius is probably correct (that is, maximal) to within 0.01 points ≈ 0.035 mm.

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djewesbury
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 00:13 Wed 22 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:If Wikipedia is to be believed, dodrant is the Latin prefix for 3/4 in the same way that semi is the prefix for 1/2.
Fantastic. But an ellipse occupies ¼π ≈ 0.785398163397448309615660845819875721049292349843776455243736148076954101571552249657 ≠ ¾ of its bounding rectangle.

So no.

Separately, for every other base style the radius can be found analytically. But not for /Arch, which requires an interval-bisection iteration, and in a loop within that, a more complicated iteration. Given the limits of PostScript’s single-precision arithmetic, I think that the chosen radius is probably correct (that is, maximal) to within 0.01 points ≈ 0.035 mm.
:shock:
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 09:11 Wed 22 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:Failing cogent objection, I propose to name /Arch the base style of which the following are canonical examples.
There is also a need to name the sub-parameter controlling the number of things in the centre. Candidates include /ExtraCircles and /ExtraGlasses.
Another option for that style: /HalfElipse.

/ExtraCircles not liked, 'Circles' seems the wrong term here; /ExtraGlasses ok or ExtraGlasses<Position> might be better, to allow variants dependent on layout to put an extra group at the defined position, which could either be relative to page e.g. ExtraGlassesCentre or ExtraGlassesTopLeft or ExtraGlassesBottomCentre or relative to design e.g. /ExtraGlassesAtLocus (guessing the former would prove more useful).

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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:37 Wed 22 May 2013

PhilW wrote:Another option for that style: /HalfElipse.
jdaw1, on Mon 20 May, wrote:The under-development pattern currently known as /SemiEllipse
Preferences? We have /Arch, /HalfEllipse and /SemiEllipse. The centres of the circles do indeed lie on an ellipse, forcing equations to be solved iteratively, but nonetheless the architectural /Arch appeals most to me. But I would defer to others’ strong counter-preferences.
PhilW wrote:/ExtraCircles not liked, 'Circles' seems the wrong term here; /ExtraGlasses ok or ExtraGlasses<Position> might be better
Currently only two base styles allow extras, and both at the same position. So /ExtraGlasses is currently winning.

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djewesbury
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Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 09:45 Wed 22 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:Preferences? We have /Arch, /HalfEllipse and /SemiEllipse. The centres of the circles do indeed lie on an ellipse, forcing equations to be solved iteratively, but nonetheless the architectural /Arch appeals most to me. But I would defer to others’ strong counter-preferences.
/Arch. Shorter is better. It's also immediately obvious.
jdaw1 wrote:Currently only two base styles allow extras, and both at the same position. So /ExtraGlasses is currently winning.
I like.
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 09:51 Wed 22 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:Preferences? We have /Arch, /HalfEllipse and /SemiEllipse.
Personally prefer /SemiEllipse but not unhappy with any.
jdaw1 wrote:
PhilW wrote:/ExtraCircles not liked, 'Circles' seems the wrong term here; /ExtraGlasses ok or ExtraGlasses<Position> might be better
Currently only two base styles allow extras, and both at the same position. So /ExtraGlasses is currently winning.
ok

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 14:40 Wed 22 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:‟Pretentious? Qui, moi?” was not a criticism. But, for my taste, ‟/Lintel” is currently winning. Maybe it should be /PostsAndLintel, but brevity is desired.
Alternative: /Goalposts

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djewesbury
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 14:45 Wed 22 May 2013

PhilW wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:‟Pretentious? Qui, moi?” was not a criticism. But, for my taste, ‟/Lintel” is currently winning. Maybe it should be /PostsAndLintel, but brevity is desired.
Alternative: /Goalposts
/AssociationFootballGoalposts?
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 15:04 Wed 22 May 2013

You can't deny that /Portal would be quite appropriate..
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 08:46 Thu 23 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:You can't deny that /Portal would be quite appropriate..
It might encourage one Quinta to use the software, at the price of discouraging others.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 23:28 Thu 23 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:If Wikipedia is to be believed, dodrant is the Latin prefix for 3/4 in the same way that semi is the prefix for 1/2.
Fantastic. But an ellipse occupies ¼π ≈ 0.785398163397448309615660845819875721049292349843776455243736148076954101571552249657 ≠ ¾ of its bounding rectangle.

So no.
?
jdaw1 wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:the incorrect name /PseudoHexagonal will be changed to /Diamonds, as shorter and more accurate.
/Gaia is also a nonsensical name. Please suggest a name for the class of styles of which the following are canonical examples.
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
/Arch is my favorite for the other packing style under discussion. But /DodrantPerimeter was meant to replace /Gaia, which was deemed nonsensical. It does, however, fail the length test vs /Gaia.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 23:37 Thu 23 May 2013

Glenn E. wrote:/Arch is my favorite for the other packing style under discussion.
/Arch is decided for the likes of
Image



Glenn E. wrote:But /DodrantPerimeter was meant to replace /Gaia, which was deemed nonsensical.
Please explain why /DodrantPerimeter is better than the current favourite, /PostsAndLintel, for the likes of
Image

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 23:53 Thu 23 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:But /DodrantPerimeter was meant to replace /Gaia, which was deemed nonsensical.
Please explain why /DodrantPerimeter is better than the current favourite, /PostsAndLintel, for the likes of
Image
Neither better nor worse; different. One type of esoterica or another.

Though we probably ought to be attempting to standardize all of the names. If /Arch, then /PostsAndLintel. If /SemiElipse, then /DodrantPerimeter. But in either case, other styles might also need renaming.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 08:36 Fri 24 May 2013

Glenn E. wrote:other styles might also need renaming.
Current state of naming: /RectangularDislocation, /Diamonds, /RectangularAlternateNudge, /Adjusted5, /PostsAndLintel, /Arch, /SquareGrid, /TopRow, /MiddleRow, and /BottomRow.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 17:29 Fri 24 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:other styles might also need renaming.
Current state of naming: /RectangularDislocation, /Diamonds, /RectangularAlternateNudge, /Adjusted5, /PostsAndLintel, /Arch, /SquareGrid, /TopRow, /MiddleRow, and /BottomRow.
Of these, only Diamonds, Arch, PostsAndLintel, and SquareGrid are sufficiently descriptive to me. And that assumes that SquareGrid does what I think it sounds like it does.
TopRow, BottomRow, and MiddleRow might also be sufficiently descriptive if they are describing the placement of a single row of glasses on the sheet. The fact that I am not sure indicates, at least to me, that the naming in general isn't sufficiently descriptive.

Diamonds, Arch, and PostsAndLintel are evocative. SquareGrid, TopRow, BottomRow, and MiddleRow are purely descriptive. The remainder are likely attempts to be purely descriptive, but for me are just confusing.

Renaming the first three to OffsetRows, SemiElipse, and Perimeter would make them purely descriptive. (Avoiding the admittedly esoteric use of dodrant- in the process.) I'm insufficiently creative at the moment to come up with evocative names for the other 4 and don't understand the remainder sufficiently to make any suggestions at all.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 17:41 Fri 24 May 2013

The Chirality of /Diamonds

Some of the /Diamonds arrangements (formerly /PseudoHexagonal) have chirality, that is, they exist in left- and right-handed versions. E.g., this six-glass arrangement is different when reflected.
Image Image
Which should be the default, and which the /Mirror version?

Other examples:
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image
Image Image

However, if both the number of rows and the number of columns are odd, there is no chirality:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

There is a current rule. When there is chirality, two corners have circles tight into them, and two don’t. My current rule says that the bottom-right corner doesn’t. The thinking was that this might, slightly, reduce the likelihood of a right-hander knocking over that bottom-right glass, which I imagined might be the most vulnerable.

Do any readers have a superior alternative specification of the non-/Mirror default?

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djewesbury
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 17:51 Fri 24 May 2013

I always have a slight problem with very tightly-stacked placemats, which is that the first drink of the flight is the furthest away.. Perhaps this is why I'm pleased to see the new /Arch and /PostsAndLintel designs, which give clear access to every glass. Given that /Diamonds exists and will undoubtedly be required at some time, however, I agree that the bottom right corner should be kept clear for right-handers.
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Glenn E.
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by Glenn E. » 17:57 Fri 24 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:The Chirality of /Diamonds

Some of the /Diamonds arrangements (formerly /PseudoHexagonal) have chirality, that is, they exist in left- and right-handed versions. E.g., this six-glass arrangement is different when reflected.
Image Image
Which should be the default, and which the /Mirror version?
To me, the example on the left is clearly the primary and the example on the right is the mirror.

But the clarity fails when the other examples are perused. I need more time to ponder a solution, though my first impulse is to say that putting a glass as close to the top left corner of the sheet is primary.
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djewesbury
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by djewesbury » 18:03 Fri 24 May 2013

Glenn E. wrote:putting a glass as close to the top left corner of the sheet is primary.
This does seem to make sense at first, but then picture yourself reaching for that first glass at the back of the mat.. It's something delicious, perhaps poured from a Fonseca 1970 mag that you'll be comparing with other formats.. Oh no, your sleeve has just caught the last glass - the Dow 1950! Oh well, it is a pretty colour on the placemat..
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