1927s in an Oxbridge College Cellar: Advice

[Oxford_Best]

I am fortunate enough to be a fellow at an Oxbridge college, with a rare wine list for the fellows. They have well over a dozen various 1927 ports that are available to purchase from their cellar at silly rates (c. 40 quid a bottle).

I love port, but I'm also a greenhorn when it comes to Ports as old as this, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I have ordered two 1927 Martinezs. 1927 Wares also available. The angel's share on one of the the bottles stretches to just about the base of the spout- what one would expect, I understand. But on the other it is an inch and a half below the spout, and also top of this bottle is also a bit sticky, and left a stain on the box it was packed in. On the other it is bone dry.

My layman intuition tells me that the more diminished bottle with the sticky top is dodgy. Would I be right, or is this sort of thing just the natural variation one would expect with port this old?

Cheers!

[jdaw1]

Hello and welcome to the right place.

You posted twice, presumably not realising that first posts need approval. Sorry, but we had lots of would-be spammers. Duplicate post deleted.

Anyway, 1927 is lovely juice. Much of it is still drinking really well. And Martinez and Warre are good houses, with a fair chance of being very fine. However, though base of neck is really good, 1½″ below that isn’t. As a guesstimate, that bottom-shoulder bottle has a more than three-quarters chance of not being proper Vintage Port.

[flash_uk]

You very lucky fellow indeed! Others here can advise best on bottle health. Maybe You could be tempted to bring one or two bottles along to one of our tasting sessions

[Oxford_Best]

Yes, sorry about the double post! I did not realize initially the posts needed approval.

Thanks for the replies. That's what I thought. I will I think get that dodgy one exchanged. With these ports I will have to go down into the cellar myself with the cellar porter to investigate them, rather
than relying on having them brought up. Wiping the thick dust off them. Any tips for what I should look for to avoid getting a bad one? Presumably not too much of an angel's share, and a dry top?

We also have some 1927 Taylors here, and some 1934 Martinez, 1948 Fonseca, 1958 Averys. Any of these stars?

Yes, I know I am ridiculously lucky to have such a perk- in my first job too. Actually, at the dinners at college there is usually 1985, 1988, or 1991 as standard - and plenty leftover too after the seniors have had their fill and turned in - so my education in this world has begun. The world of tasting sessions may well await!

[jdaw1]

A book is being written about Port Vintages, and drafts of some chapters can be found on PortVintages.com. Your college is mentioned in the Noval chapter, vintage 1931. You should be aware of the precedent.

[DRT]

We also have some 1927 Taylors here, and some 1934 Martinez, 1948 Fonseca, 1958 Averys. Any of these stars?

At that price buy all you can. You will never have another chance to do so.

Warre 1927 retails at around 10 times the price you are being offered. I think low shoulder for 90% discount is a fair bet. It might be wonderful. If it isn't, you have lost not very much and the good level bottles you have bought at the same price provide adequate compensation.

Do you need someone to accompany you into the cellar to advise on bottle condition? If so, I am free that day

[djewesbury]

Can you invite fellow academics to discuss important matters at High Table?

[LGTrotter]

Totes-amaze! Buy as many gallons of the Fonseca 48 as you can fit into a pantechnican, or you could get some members to reprise 'Ocean's eleven' with the Dean in the Andy Garcia role and DRT as Brad Pitt and we'll clear the place in a night! You lucked out when you said yes to that job.

[Oxford_Best]

Wise words...next term's allowance is already full now, I think. I have just had the two 1958 Averys they have brought up- these look in great condition. For £24 each (Yes, I am aware that someone may wish to torture me to make up for how cheap these are!). I also have a Gould Campbell 1983 and Grahams 1985. The 1985 I am drinking and it is gorgeous and fruity- my favourite so far- prefering it to the 1966 and 77 and 91 I have had previously (those are the only other vintages I have had thus far).

Alas my college's cellar is but a very small one, but I don't know how many other port fans there are amongst the fellows. Some colleges - especailly the older larger ones - have ten times the volume in the cellars. But this is a bit like the Duke complaining the King has more land than him.

Yes you can invite fellow academics...normally they don't drink all the port decanted as well. It is left to me as the junior to polish it all off. I did not realise how major a perk this was until now...

[Oxford_Best]

I like that chapter on portvintages.com! My college is indeed mentioned in there...I did not realise Oxbridge colleges have such a reputation amongst vintage port lovers.

[PhilW]

You are a very, very lucky man! Not only are you being given access to purchase at incredibly low prices, but with the addition of knowledge that the conditions in which they have been kept should have been excellent. Simply finding access to such rare bottles in high quality condition is rare enough, never mind at such prices. If you have not already done so, I would ensure that you are able to continue to keep them in such good condition (I assume the college may provide cellaring services for you), and yes, I would certainly avail yourself of the opportunity!

[LGTrotter]

Such was the amazement at your tale that I clean forgot you were after advice. Raised corks (sign of warm storage at some point; this is unlikely to be a problem with the provenance you describe), sticky tops and low levels in the bottle are all things to look out for and avoid if possible.
Having said that this is guidance only, I have found when buying odds and ends that the dodgy looking ones are great and sometimes the good looking ones taste filthy. I also think that 'top shoulder' ain't too bad for a 27.
I am entirely with you on the Graham 85, like lying back in a nice warm bath.

Any chance of a tasting note or two on some of the wines you mention? They would be most welcome.

[jdaw1]

I did not realise Oxbridge colleges have such a reputation amongst vintage port lovers.

My first taste of Port was at my matriculation dinner (Queens’, maths, matric. ’87). I was hooked.

[Oxford_Best]

Thanks for the advice. Yes, tasting notes will be forthcoming when I have developed the knowledge and vocab to explain properly! It is obviously quite rare in the world of vintage port to get someone like me - who likes port a lot, but is nothing even approaching a connoisseur - but yet who has access to ports of such vintages. Normally if one like these vintages enough to buy them, and spend the amounts on them that people do, then one will almost by definition have the knowledge and palette required to appreciate them to the full. But I intend to learn!!

I think I can be pretty sure they have all been well cellared throughout their lifetime, in the college cellar or in some other wholesale cellar before whenever it was the college acquired them, which is likely many years ago. To be honest while I have the job there over the next three years I will ask them to leave them in the cellar marked for me- there's not a lot of point removing them except for initial inspection, showing them to people, and drinking them of course.

They actually have two dozen 1927 Martinezs, I have discovered But I can only buy eight bottles in total a term to keep so there are limits on my purchasing powers, but I can drink as much as I can of whatever they put out at dinner. Interestingly, I have noticed most fellows seem to go for the Claret and the dessert wine, avoiding the port. Which is good for me...

I now feel as though I have won the port Euromillions...

[djewesbury]

We are coming to see you. You are smuggling us in as architectural experts who are studying the gargoyles on your college.

[LGTrotter]

Yes, tasting notes will be forthcoming when I have developed the knowledge and vocab to explain properly!

I think that people are sometimes reluctant to put on notes because they feel they do not have sufficient 'expertise' in writing them. Personally I find notes from 'non experts' as valuable as any other, precisely because they are unburdened by the formulas that can make them feel, well, formulaic. er's are not judgemental about these things, so don't be shy, come on in the water's lovely! I was interested to hear your thoughts about the Avery's 58 as there has been much discussion about the 63.

[jdaw1]

My notes are not better than mediocre, but can still be useful. Don’t be shy.

There is even value in a simple choice between the one-word descriptions Lovely | Middling | Avoid.

[Oxford_Best]

Okay- I am emboldened sufficiently! I am going to open the 1927 Martinez low shoulder very shortly and will write a note for that. I might try and kick up a fuss about the sticky top...and hope they will replace it for free (after I have drunk it)....

Yes, I will probably open one of 1958 Averys within the year, as I am lucky enough to have two.

[DRT]

Has anyone mentioned that you are very welcome to come to a tasting in London?

When I joined this community my experience of Port was similar to your current experience, although my buying options were much more limited. One of the great benefits of being part of this merry band is that your opportunity to taste many more VPs than you otherwise would is greatly increased. If I was brave I would say that it increases exponentially {duck}.

Opening six bottles of VP at home means you taste six VPs. Opening six bottles one at a time at six tastings means you will probably taste five to ten times that number. I think of it as an excellent way to save money

Please do post tasting notes, however brief. "Melons" has been known to convey a number of messages about the state of a Port and a Port taster simultaneously.

[jdaw1]

increases exponentially {duck}.

He knows that this usage needles me, for a reason given earlier in this thread.

maths

But Derek’s point about London tastings is correct.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Actually, I suspect that if you didn't want to travel down to London you might find that an invitation to Oxford or Cambridge would go down well. Many of us live / work / visit not too far from those two cities and would be happy to organise an offline to which you would be most welcome. I know of several restaurants in Oxford who would be only too happy to provide us with a venue for a leisurely dinner and lengthy after-dinner consumption of port in return for a modest contribution towards their overheads.

Don't expect your two bottles of Martinez 1927 to taste the same. The bottle with the low fill might well taste much more tawny (honey, grapefruit, nuts) than the bottle with the higher fill. That is the consequence of a bottle which has seeped and exposed the remaining contents to air; it is likely to still be delicious, just different from the one which hasn't. I recently consumed a bottle of Quinta do Noval 1963 which was down by about 1/3rd, but it was still very enjoyable but nothing like the bottle I had in October last year which had a very good fill.

However, I am delighted that you have fallen on your feet. Your first job and you end up as a fellow at a college which still allows fellows to purchase bottles of mature port at replacement cost. As you say, you have certainly won the port Euromillions. My congratulations and I am delighted that you are going to be able to use the chance to start off your port collection with some really good, mature port.

And Fonseca 1948 is an iconic port but Martinez 1934 is a real rarity which is worth buying while you can.

[LGTrotter]

I knew this would happen. Along comes a man with access to a port cellar beyond the dreams of avarice (but not Tom, obv) and then he vanishes.

It was all just a silly, giddy dream.

C'mon Oxford_best, help me believe in fairys again, post a tasting note.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I did not realise Oxbridge colleges have such a reputation amongst vintage port lovers.

My first taste of Port was at my matriculation dinner (Queens’, maths, matric. ’87). I was hooked.

Do you remember what it was you were served?

[jdaw1]

Do you remember what it was you were served?

No. I was young. But I late learnt that the cellar then had many 1970s from the best shippers, so that must be plausible.