Bordeaux Recommendations

[DRT]

I woke up this morning to find that the elves had left this in my back garden. Will report back...

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Excuse: I found out at the weekend that this is made by the same people who make Beaucaillou. At £140 IB I decided to buy 2 cases. One is winging its way to Seckfords, this one will be sacrificed in the name of science.

[mosesbotbol]

Consider some old Italian standby like Chianti (Monsato, Selvapiana, or Rufinon Ducale Reserva), Barbarossa, or Barolo. All wines with long aging potential and many deals to be found.

Beyond that, there's always Musar, but prices are rising very quickly. Older vintages are become super rare and/or VERY pricey.

[Alex Bridgeman]

...this one will be sacrificed in the name of science.

Noooo!!!!! Don't do that. That's the equivalent of drinking 2000 Taylor. You'll be drinking a very good wine while it tastes like unbalanced muck. If you want something to drink today then buy the Wine Society's Claret or Exhibition Paulliac. Both are a little older and were made with slightly less tannin so are more approachable.

Far better to put this one into Seckfords alongside the other and get it out in 10 years when it stands a chance of having softened and show some of the complexity that it will achieve.

By comparison, I am drinking St Julien from 1983 at the moment and thinking that is about the right age.

And apologies for not having posted recommendations yet - busy day clothes shopping with SWMBO

[DRT]

...this one will be sacrificed in the name of science.

Noooo!!!!! Don't do that. That's the equivalent of drinking 2000 Taylor. You'll be drinking a very good wine while it tastes like unbalanced muck. If you want something to drink today then buy the Wine Society's Claret or Exhibition Paulliac. Both are a little older and were made with slightly less tannin so are more approachable.

Far better to put this one into Seckfords alongside the other and get it out in 10 years when it stands a chance of having softened and show some of the complexity that it will achieve.

Fine advice indeed.

If I had opened one this evening I would no doubt agree with you wholeheartedly, noting that it was still very tannic but with lots of structure and dense fruit that might be ready to show its best in a decade or so. Presumably the weight and texture would have been impressive for a wine at this price point and my thought would have strayed towards wondering why one would pay twice as much for its older sibling. All speculation of course given that I always heed AHB's advice.

Now then, where is that rule on the HMRC website about returning a case to bond with only one bottle missing?

[djewesbury]

Oops. Well now you've got a bottle space in that case for something else. For ten years.

[LGTrotter]

I think that the 09s, especially at this level are fantastic right now, you've got another box beyond immediate reach, tuck in. Alex is right that it will keep fine and improve, but I find it hard to resist them. I've even had one of my Grand puy Lacoste and had to hide the rest. Yum.

[djewesbury]

£140 a case IB is bonkers. Do you mind divulging where?

[DRT]

I think that the 09s, especially at this level are fantastic right now, you've got another box beyond immediate reach, tuck in. Alex is right that it will keep fine and improve, but I find it hard to resist them. I've even had one of my Grand puy Lacoste and had to hide the rest. Yum.

I like this advice. It has validated my good decision making.

In seven days from now I might have another one.

Back on the salad and Highland Spring for now...

[DRT]

£140 a case IB is bonkers. Do you mind divulging where?

http://www.en-primeur.co.uk

I divulged the source a few days ago in the "Port for sale" thread.

Strangely, between this afternoon and now all of the cases of Lalande Borie 2009 have gone.

Well done chaps

[djewesbury]

Too slow off the mark! I'll keep a sharper eye in future.

[AW77]

Today I realized that one wine region is missing in your past (Rioja, Chianti and Bordeaux) and present (Bordeaux) efforts: Douro reds. Why did you exclude them so far? You know your port, so knowing your Douro reds would be a piece of cake.

[LGTrotter]

Today I realized that one wine region is missing in your past (Rioja, Chianti and Bordeaux) and present (Bordeaux) efforts: Douro reds. Why did you exclude them so far? You know your port, so knowing your Douro reds would be a piece of cake.

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

[AW77]

Today I realized that one wine region is missing in your past (Rioja, Chianti and Bordeaux) and present (Bordeaux) efforts: Douro reds. Why did you exclude them so far? You know your port, so knowing your Douro reds would be a piece of cake.

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

You as an ardent port drinker could put some sugar cubes in your glass if that suits your palate better.

[LGTrotter]

Today I realized that one wine region is missing in your past (Rioja, Chianti and Bordeaux) and present (Bordeaux) efforts: Douro reds. Why did you exclude them so far? You know your port, so knowing your Douro reds would be a piece of cake.

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

You as an ardent port drinker could put some sugar cubes in your glass if that suits your palate better.

Lumpen, gawky, awkward. All the things that forty years, sugar and brandy can make into something sublime.

[DRT]

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

Agreed. *ducks even lower*

If I want 15% fruit-bomb beasts I can buy Auzzie stuff for £7-£10. If I want finesse I can buy French. I don't need tannic monsters from the Douro that need 30 years in bottle that are as weak as 14-15% - that is what Port is for.

[DRT]

Our posts crossed, Owen. We don't seem to disagree.

[LGTrotter]

And another thing;

my usual haunt of Burgundy

This is a definite, go get burgundy, spend the money, waste it not infrequently, but get it. They will break your heart.

Flash, where are you? Derek needs burgundy advice.

[DRT]

And another thing;

my usual haunt of Burgundy

This is a definite, go get burgundy, spend the money, waste it not infrequently, but get it. They will break your heart.

List what in need and I will seek them out.

[LGTrotter]

I think burgundy might be the last wine worth buying en primeur. The usual suspects (UK merchants) do this, good vintages are at a bit of a premium but much less so than in claret.
There are definite styles according whereabouts on the line of vineyards you are. Most important is who makes it. Growers and merchants tend to make wines to a particular style and this is very much down to personal taste. I used to like just big fat wines from Gevery and Nuits, I still do, but the ones which made me go wow were Roumier's Chambolle wines and some Lafarge Volnays. I was worried about suggesting names that are now preposterously expensive but as you are planning to retire with 5000 bottles of assorted plonk then sod you, not that I'm jealous or anything like that.
But really it is another one for an expert and going to tastings in town. Again this is offered by most of the London merchants around en primeur time, if you've ever bought anything off Justerini's they used to do an OK free one. I've only ever had one Domaine Romanee Conti wine, you could sell two cases of your 66 Fonseca and get a half decent bottle to try. But there's a fifty fifty chance it would be dud (see Rudy Kurwinian vs state). And there are some truly terrible wastes of money in burgundy.

[Alex Bridgeman]

In seven days from now I might have another one.

Back on the salad and Highland Spring for now...

You can't have long left of your 5 week dry spell. Your blood pressure has dropped impressively but still needs to come down further. Another reason to send Seckfords a box of 11 bottles for storage, with a note apologising for the breakage of one.

And I'll remind everyone on the Forum that you publicly asked for help in your efforts to be around for many years to enjoy retirement and drink through your cellar. We all should encourage you to get back on the wagon of salad and spring water for the remainder of your 5 week self-imposed ban on alcohol.

[DRT]

I'll remind everyone on the Forum that you publicly asked for help in your efforts to be around for many years to enjoy retirement and drink through your cellar. We all should encourage you to get back on the wagon of salad and spring water for the remainder of your 5 week self-imposed ban on alcohol.

Thank you. Back on it now with a bowl of summer berries and natural yoghurt.

I think burgundy might be the last wine worth buying en primeur … there's a fifty fifty chance it would be dud (see Rudy Kurwinian vs state). And there are some truly terrible wastes of money in burgundy.

This has not encouraged me to leave the confines of Bordeaux.

[DRT]

A general thank you to all who have contributed sound advice, which is very much appreciated.

Despite the nudges I have decided to stick to the knitting and focus on building a stock of good quality claret. Other stuff can and will follow at a later date.

Please feel free to list recommendations for good quality Bordeaux in the £15-£50 (IB) per bottle price range in this thread. Young or old, well known or not.

[LGTrotter]

My apologies for rambling in my cups last night about burgundy, I would also point out that it doesn't keep as well, the entry level wines can be a bit underwhelming and it is more difficult to sell on, anyhoo...

The usual suspects for sellable reliable Cru bourgeois are; Chasse spleen, poujeaux, sociando mallet, Gloria (these last two are a little pricier), others I have tried and been less impressed with are Liversan, Cissac (some older ones have been nice), Fourcas Dupre, the Fourcas Hosten has been nice in good years, in fact I would tend to look for classic years of all the above. Second wines in 2009 are very good but like the little girl in the story when they are bad ( in poorer years) they are horrid. In terms of value on reflection Alex is probably right that the 96s look ok at present. I know very little about right bank wines but if you like them they tend to be a bit dearer. There are some very good wines coming out of Lalande de pomerol and other satellite appellations, but again I don't know enough to make specific recommendations.

[LGTrotter]

With the dearer wines I have tended to try a few different ones and get some different vintages of the ones I liked. I took recommendations from other people initially and was not disappointed. They included; leoville barton, grand puy lacoste, brane cantenac (not the older vintages of this), Lynch bages (but this has got pricey), domaine de chevalier (but try some Grave as they are different and don't suit everyone). The ones I found I liked from my own taste are Giscours, Beychevelle, both of the pichons (again pricey but very good especially the Baron at the moment). I think you can be less shy about off vintages the higher up the ladder you go, but this is relative, don't go for absolute stinkers (84, 87, 91, 92 spring to mind). Fashion seems to have a big influence on price so if possible find wines that aren't. Taste as much as you can.

[DRT]

Thanks for the recommendations, Owen, some of which are new to me.

I might have to find a ticket to a large trade fair sometime soon