Placemats UI?

[PhilW]

Julian and I have had several discussions about the possibility of a UI (User Interface) being created as a front-end for the placemats creation postscript file, for non-technical users. The manner in which such a UI would interface to the placemat postscript is a subject for a separate discussion - there are several options, and preferences - and is NOT the purpose of this post. For the purpose of the following question, assume that some suitable interface has been determined, and this is completely hidden from the user.

There are many methods and levels at which such a UI could be created, including simple (minimal features, perhaps just entering people/wines and selecting glass arrangement and page types required) and complex (supporting many more, if not all of the postscript parameters/features), and this could be implemented as a web interface or an executable. While a web interface would perhaps be ideal, I would not be the person to create such (skill sets, plus some technical issues which I'm happy to discuss if someone else would want to take this on).

I could create a simple Windows program in C# which would allow someone to type lists of people/wines into boxes, to save and load these (for later re-use/modification), to select which pages they wish to create, and create them (as postscript and/or as pdf). Such a program if created by myself would be an executable running on Windows only (though I expect would run under Wine on Macs also), released as a standalone executable file (which may/not mean some people might be restricted from running it at work, etc).

Your views on whether it Is worth creating such a program, or not?

[DRT]

I have long been an advocate of this concept. Thank you for stepping forward and for enduring the pain of convincing Julian that it is a good idea (although I suspect he remains unconvinced and is simply allowing it to happen).

A stand-alone executable in Windows would be of no use to me. I use a Mac at home and could not run an unapproved application on my employer's network.

Have you considered creating this in an Excel workbook?

[jdaw1]

There are some problems with the proposal to create a “simple Windows program”.

• This cannot be used on a machine if it cannot be installed on that machine. Many work PCs are locked, the typical user not having admin powers. Many users will not be able to install this on the PCs to which they have access.

• At least some TPFers use Macs at home. Obviously, being the home computer, the user can install software. But not Windows software.

• Non-TPFers, who cannot know that Phil’s hacking skills are white- rather than black-hat, might be unwilling to install stranger’s software on their home computers. And, relatedly, they should not be encouraged to do so.

So I fear that this Windows program of Phil’s, if done, would be little used.

A web interface would have advantages of wider accessibility, and of version control.

Edit: Derek typed faster than me, and has some of the envisaged problems.

[flash_uk]

Sounds like a fine plan. A .exe sounds like an awful lot of pain for the prospective user when the requirement is something relatively straightforward. I would suggest a simple web form to capture user input. The back end can be a simple php script to stitch together user parameters with Julian's code and shoot the whole lot across to one of the various online ps to pdf creators and the pdf will be returned.

[DRT]

Subject to the agreement of the other Admins, a web form solution could be hosted on the same server as TPF.

[PhilW]

Sounds like a fine plan. A .exe sounds like an awful lot of pain for the prospective user when the requirement is something relatively straightforward. I would suggest a simple web form to capture user input. The back end can be a simple php script to stitch together user parameters with Julian's code and shoot the whole lot across to one of the various online ps to pdf creators and the pdf will be returned.

There are a number of issues which make it less simple than might first appear, for a web implementation. These include dynamic length lists for people (names, initials, and left/right) and for wines (name, year, perhaps above/below lines), plus the ability to save/load the data set (so small subsequent modifications do not require full data re-entry) which then probably mandates local storage, access permissions and potentially data protection issues. All are solvable, and for someone who undertakes these regularly, probably straightforward (though this is not me). If we have someone with the skills who would like to take on the web implementation, this would be an ideal option, allowing potential access not just from mac and windows users, but also for tablets etc also.

Derek's suggestion of an excel implementation is an interesting alternative which I had not considered; I am not an excel macro whizz, but for someone who is that might be possible (there would be additional interfacing issues the scope of this discussion though - separate discussion if wanted). This approach might also suffer from the issue of security raised by Julian however - would you trust a downloaded excel with embedded macros from a source you don't know any more than an executable?

[Glenn E.]

I would likely use such software if it were created. My needs are generally far simpler than what Julian's software provides, so a simple interface of some sort would likely be very useful to me.

I would be happy to provide a list of the parameters that I typically need to change, if that would be useful. (I cannot do so from memory, though, so would need time to figure it out again.)

[flash_uk]

There are a number of issues which make it less simple than might first appear, for a web implementation. These include dynamic length lists for people (names, initials, and left/right) and for wines (name, year, perhaps above/below lines), plus the ability to save/load the data set (so small subsequent modifications do not require full data re-entry) which then probably mandates local storage, access permissions and potentially data protection issues.

I hadn't thought of saving/loading data - I suppose the user could be given the option to save data to a parameter file and load data from a parameter file.

Overall, the complexity really depends I think on how much optionality is to be provided for the user. The more choices available, the more complicated the parameter inputs become.

[flash_uk]

Perhaps one way forward would be to start simple. I could have a crack at a web UI that could take user input and then allow the user to save a file with the parameters and also to save a ready-to-go postscript file that the user can then upload to one of the websites that does ps to pdf conversion. No need to host this on theportforum.com - I can host.

[DRT]

This has the potential to become much more complicated than it needs to be.

I see this as a very limited set of parameters, such as:

• 14 boxes into which you can type names of people
• 20(?) boxes into which you can type the names of Ports/Wines
• a series of boxes to contain information about the tasting (where, when, etc?)

Most tastings could be adequately catered for using only those options. Everything else would use the default values already set in the code.

Other than interfacing to the placemat code and pdf converter, the most complicated thing the web form/spreadsheet would need to do is work out how many people and how many wines were coming to the tasting based upon the number of non-blank input boxes.

Those who want/need to decide between page layouts, designs, fonts, etc can use the code as it is used now. I think this interface is for those who (like me) do not care about those things and simply want pieces of paper with circles and names on them.

[DRT]

Flash posted as I typed.

[DRT]

Perhaps one way forward would be to start simple. I could have a crack at a web UI that could take user input and then allow the user to save a file with the parameters and also to save a ready-to-go postscript file that the user can then upload to one of the websites that does ps to pdf conversion. No need to host this on theportforum.com - I can host.

Well done that man.

Advantages of hosting it here is that it could share the style and might attract people here. We are in danger of becoming in-bred if new DNA doesn't visit the island

[flash_uk]

Perhaps one way forward would be to start simple. I could have a crack at a web UI that could take user input and then allow the user to save a file with the parameters and also to save a ready-to-go postscript file that the user can then upload to one of the websites that does ps to pdf conversion. No need to host this on theportforum.com - I can host.

Well done that man.

Advantages of hosting it here is that it could share the style and might attract people here. We are in danger of becoming in-bred if new DNA doesn't visit the island

Yeah would make sense to host on eventually. I was just thinking about initial speed for prototyping. A technical question: do you have any idea if you have control of the php environment for , or is it shared with other sites hosted by the ISP?

[DRT]

A technical question: do you have any idea if you have control of the php environment for , or is it shared with other sites hosted by the ISP?

Various versions of phpBB are available through the host's control panel. I just activate whichever one is needed to run the latest version we are using for the forum.

What information do you need?

[PhilW]

FYI, the following was my potential list of features for the C# version I was considering; this was intended to be a minimal set to provide sufficiently useful functionality.

UI fields:

• Tasting title line (text entry)
• People attending
  • Name (text entry)
  • Initials (text entry)
  • Leftie? (tick box)
• Wines (text entry fields)
  • Producer
  • Year
  • (over-title)
  • (sub-title)
• Output Selection (tick boxes)
  • Page size selection (drop down)
  • Glasses pages (Style, selected as drop-down if box is ticked)
  • Notes pages
  • Pre-pour sheets

UI actions:

• Save parameter set to file
• Load parameter set from file
• Validate parameter set prior to use
• Create and save postscript
• (perhaps) Create and save PDF

[PW edit: added page size]

[PhilW]

Mike - before thinking too far on the back end, I'll forward the email discussion thread where JDAW and I have discussed options for the interfacing between parameter definitions and the postscript; suffice it to say that if the server on which TPF (or your) server is hosted happens to be private and some form of *nix based, it would make the back end much simpler.

[jdaw1]

Mike - before thinking too far on the back end, I'll forward the email discussion thread where JDAW and I have discussed options for the interfacing between parameter definitions and the postscript; suffice it to say that if the server on which TPF (or your) server is hosted happens to be private and some form of *nix based, it would make the back end much simpler.

That correspondence had many dead ends. One of us — me? — should put it as a coherent essay in the software thread.

[flash_uk]

Phil - I think it looks like the ISP hosting will allow php files to be hosted. Sometimes the hosting servers have configs that make life difficult for certain php code to work properly, but the easiest way to find out is to try it out.

Your parameter set above looks good to me - two steps now needed:
1. I write a web page to allow a user to enter the parameters
2. I write some php code to weave the parameters into Julian's placemat.ps

Then folks can give it all a whirl and see what they think.

One thing I should mention. I can write a webpage to do this I think. What is certain though, is that it will be the most grey and unattractive webpage ever seen. I am not adept in any way shape or form at aesthetic design and layout....any volunteers for that?

[jdaw1]

any volunteers for that?

I’ll help. Get it working first.

[flash_uk]

Progress update.

I have written the pages to capture user input. I've even managed to incorporate a modicum of style in the pages. Some final adjustments required to the page formatting which might take me another hour later tonight.

The code to weave it all together will take a little while longer. Maybe tonight, maybe longer.

Edit: and I should have mentioned, I have not yet included any data input validation routines. The pages currently assume the user is competent and isn't entering nonsense data.

[Glenn E.]

The pages currently assume the user is competent and isn't entering nonsense data.

Luckily, software use necessarily precedes the tasting thereby limiting (slightly) nonsense.

[jdaw1]

If the user were to enter “Château Léoville-Barton”, it would be good if the software could convert that to [(Ch) /acircumflex (teau L) /eacute (oville-Barton)]. If I were to supply a table of unicode↔glyphs, would that be difficult?

[DRT]

This has the potential to become much more complicated than it needs to be.

If the user were to enter “Château Léoville-Barton”, it would be good if the software could convert that to [(Ch) /acircumflex (teau L) /eacute (oville-Barton)]. If I were to supply a table of unicode↔glyphs, would that be difficult?

I rest my case.

[jdaw1]

If I were to supply a table of unicode↔glyphs, would that be difficult?

String, (…). All unicode chars in the table are to be substituted with “) ” then the third column of the table then “ (”.

Code: Select all

Chr.	Uni.	/PostScript-Glyph-Name
(	0028	/parenleft
)	0029	/parenright
\	005C	/backslash
¢	00A2	/cent
£	00A3	/sterling
¥	00A5	/yen
§	00A7	/section
®	00AE	/registered
·	00B7	/periodcentered
¼	00BC	/onequarter
½	00BD	/onehalf
¾	00BE	/threequarters
À	00C0	/Agrave
Á	00C1	/Aacute
Â	00C2	/Acircumflex
Ã	00C3	/Atilde
Ä	00C4	/Adieresis
Å	00C5	/Aring
Æ	00C6	/AE
Ç	00C7	/Ccedilla
È	00C8	/Egrave
É	00C9	/Eacute
Ê	00CA	/Ecircumflex
Ë	00CB	/Edieresis
Ì	00CC	/Igrave
Í	00CD	/Iacute
Î	00CE	/Icircumflex
Ï	00CF	/Idieresis
Ñ	00D1	/Ntilde
Ò	00D2	/Ograve
Ó	00D3	/Oacute
Ô	00D4	/Ocircumflex
Õ	00D5	/Otilde
Ö	00D6	/Odieresis
×	00D7	/multiply
Ù	00D9	/Ugrave
Ú	00DA	/Uacute
Û	00DB	/Ucircumflex
Ü	00DC	/Udieresis
Ý	00DD	/Yacute
ß	00DF	/germandbls
à	00E0	/agrave
á	00E1	/aacute
á	00E1	/aacute
â	00E2	/acircumflex
ã	00E3	/atilde
ä	00E4	/adieresis
å	00E5	/aring
æ	00E6	/ae
ç	00E7	/ccedilla
è	00E8	/egrave
é	00E9	/eacute
ê	00EA	/ecircumflex
ë	00EB	/edieresis
ì	00EC	/igrave
í	00ED	/iacute
î	00EE	/icircumflex
ï	00EF	/idieresis
ñ	00F1	/ntilde
ò	00F2	/ograve
ó	00F3	/oacute
ô	00F4	/ocircumflex
õ	00F5	/otilde
ö	00F6	/odieresis
÷	00F7	/divide
ø	00F8	/oslash
ù	00F9	/ugrave
ú	00FA	/uacute
û	00FB	/ucircumflex
ü	00FC	/udieresis
ý	00FD	/yacute
ÿ	00FF	/ydieresis
Ā	0100	/Amacron
ā	0101	/amacron
Ă	0102	/Abreve
ă	0103	/abreve
Ą	0104	/Aogonek
ą	0105	/aogonek
Ć	0106	/Cacute
ć	0107	/cacute
Ĉ	0108	/Ccircumflex
ĉ	0109	/ccircumflex
Ċ	010A	/Cdotaccent
ċ	010B	/cdotaccent
Č	010C	/Ccaron
č	010D	/ccaron
Ď	010E	/Dcaron
ď	010F	/dcaron
Đ	0110	/Dcroat
đ	0111	/dcroat
Ē	0112	/Emacron
ē	0113	/emacron
Ĕ	0114	/Ebreve
ĕ	0115	/ebreve
Ė	0116	/Edot
ė	0117	/edot
Ę	0118	/Eogonek
ę	0119	/eogonek
Ě	011A	/Ecaron
ě	011B	/ecaron
Ĝ	011C	/Gcircumflex
ĝ	011D	/gcircumflex
Ğ	011E	/Gbreve
ğ	011F	/gbreve
Ġ	0120	/Gdotaccent
ġ	0121	/gdotaccent
Ģ	0122	/Gcedilla
ģ	0123	/gcedilla
Ĥ	0124	/Hcircumflex
ĥ	0125	/hcircumflex
Ħ	0126	/Hbar
ħ	0127	/hbar
Ĩ	0128	/Itilde
ĩ	0129	/itilde
Ī	012A	/Imacron
ī	012B	/imacron
Ĭ	012C	/Ibreve
ĭ	012D	/ibreve
Į	012E	/Iogonek
į	012F	/iogonek
İ	0130	/Idot
Ĵ	0134	/Jcircumflex
ĵ	0135	/jcircumflex
Ķ	0136	/Kcedilla
ķ	0137	/kcedilla
Ĺ	0139	/Lacute
ĺ	013A	/lacute
Ļ	013B	/Lcedilla
ļ	013C	/lcedilla
Ľ	013D	/Lcaron
ľ	013E	/lcaron
Ŀ	013F	/Ldot
ŀ	0140	/ldot
Ł	0141	/Lslash
ł	0142	/lslash
Ń	0143	/Nacute
ń	0144	/nacute
Ņ	0145	/Ncedilla
ņ	0146	/ncedilla
Ň	0147	/Ncaron
ň	0148	/ncaron
Ō	014C	/Omacron
ō	014D	/omacron
Ŏ	014E	/Obreve
ŏ	014F	/obreve
Ő	0150	/Ohungarumlaut
ő	0151	/ohungarumlaut
Œ	0152	/OE
œ	0153	/oe
Ŕ	0154	/Racute
ŕ	0155	/racute
Ŗ	0156	/Rcedilla
ŗ	0157	/rcedilla
Ř	0158	/Rcaron
ř	0159	/rcaron
Ś	015A	/Sacute
ś	015B	/sacute
Ŝ	015C	/Scircumflex
ŝ	015D	/scircumflex
Ş	015E	/Scedilla
Ş	015E	/Scommaaccent
ş	015F	/scedilla
ş	015F	/scommaaccent
Š	0160	/Scaron
š	0161	/scaron
Ţ	0162	/Tcommaaccent
ţ	0163	/tcommaaccent
Ť	0164	/Tcaron
ť	0165	/tcaron
Ŧ	0166	/Tbar
ŧ	0167	/tbar
Ũ	0168	/Utilde
ũ	0169	/utilde
Ū	016A	/Umacron
ū	016B	/umacron
Ŭ	016C	/Ubreve
ŭ	016D	/ubreve
Ů	016E	/Uring
ů	016F	/uring
Ű	0170	/Uhungarumlaut
ű	0171	/uhungarumlaut
Ų	0172	/Uogonek
ų	0173	/uogonek
Ŵ	0174	/Wcircumflex
ŵ	0175	/wcircumflex
Ŷ	0176	/Ycircumflex
ŷ	0177	/ycircumflex
Ÿ	0178	/Ydieresis
Ź	0179	/Zacute
ź	017A	/zacute
Ż	017B	/Zdotaccent
ż	017C	/zdotaccent
Ž	017D	/Zcaron
ž	017E	/zcaron
Ǧ	01E6	/Gcaron
ǧ	01E7	/gcaron
Ǻ	01FA	/Aringacute
ǻ	01FB	/aringacute
Ǽ	01FC	/AEacute
ǽ	01FD	/aeacute
α	03B1	/alpha
β	03B2	/beta
γ	03B3	/gamma
δ	03B4	/delta
ε	03B5	/epsilon
ζ	03B6	/zeta
η	03B7	/eta
θ	03B8	/theta
ι	03B9	/iota
κ	03BA	/kappa
λ	03BB	/lambda
μ	03BC	/mu
ν	03BD	/nu
ξ	03BE	/xi
ο	03BF	/omicron
π	03C0	/pi
ρ	03C1	/rho
σ	03C3	/sigma
τ	03C4	/tau
υ	03C5	/upsilon
φ	03C6	/phi
χ	03C7	/chi
ψ	03C8	/psi
ω	03C9	/omega
Ẁ	1E80	/Wgrave
ẁ	1E81	/wgrave
Ẃ	1E82	/Wacute
ẃ	1E83	/wacute
Ẅ	1E84	/Wdieresis
ẅ	1E85	/wdieresis
Ỳ	1EF2	/Ygrave
ỳ	1EF3	/ygrave
–	2013	/endash
—	2014	/emdash
‘	2018	/quoteleft
’	2019	/quoteright
‚	201A	/quotesinglbase
“	201C	/quotedblleft
”	201D	/quotedblright
„	201E	/quotedblbase
†	2020	/dagger
‡	2021	/daggerdbl
•	2022	/bullet
…	2026	/ellipsis
‹	2039	/guilsinglleft
›	203A	/guilsinglright
₩	20A9	/won
₪	20AA	/sheqel
€	20AC	/Euro
™	2122	/trademark
⅓	2153	/onethird
⅔	2154	/twothirds
⅛	215B	/oneeighth
⅜	215C	/threeeighths
⅝	215D	/fiveeighths
⅞	215E	/seveneighths
←	2190	/arrowleft
↑	2191	/arrowup
→	2192	/arrowright
↓	2193	/arrowdown
↔	2194	/arrowboth
⇐	21D0	/arrowdblleft
⇑	21D1	/arrowdblup
⇒	21D2	/arrowdblright
⇓	21D3	/arrowdbldown
⇔	21D4	/arrowdblboth
∈	2208	/element
∉	2209	/notelement
∋	220B	/suchthat
∌	220C	/notcontains
≈	2248	/approxequal
≠	2260	/notequal
≤	2264	/lessequal
≥	2265	/greaterequal
◊	25CA	/lozenge
♠	2660	/spade
♣	2663	/club
♥	2665	/heart
♦	2666	/diamond
fi	FB01	/fi
fl	FB02	/fl

[jdaw1]

I rest my case.

Cálem?
Borges & Irmão?
Casal dos Jordões?
Quinta das Herédias?
Kopke Quinta São Luiz?
Quinta de Vale Meão?
Messias Quinta do Cachão?
Poças?
Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Águias?