The Port Forum Offline #2 - 1st Sep 2007

[jdaw1]

£105 F63: fixed. Please re-examine Fonseca tasting placemats and psychedelic version.

Are you planning to bring the mats and labels with you or do you need someone to print them here in Blighty?

I’d much rather someone could print in the UK. Can anyone print on any paper size between A4 and A3?

Here is my plan for decanting the wines. All wines will be decanted and then returned almost immediately to their original bottle and kept as close to cellar temperature as can be achieved until the arrive at Conky's. The bottles will only be stoppered for 1-2hrs during transportation.

Please feel free to disagree and put forward an alternative for any or all wines:

• F20 - 3 Hours
• F63 - 6 Hours
• F66 - 6 Hours
• F70 - 10 Hours
• F75 - 8 Hours
• F77 - 10 Hours
• F80 - 10 Hours
• F83 - 10 Hours
• F85 - suggest 24 Hours (Conky's)
• F92 - 10 Hours
• F00 - 48 Hours

• 1920: Once upon a time I had a Taylor 1927 that we started immediately after opening. It peaked at 15 minutes (not a very high peak, alas) and within the hour was sugary water. I see no harm in a zero-hour plan for the F20. If it needs more, well, we’ll have the whole evening.
• 1975: I’m amazed that people believe that a vintage as poor as ’75 requires 8 hours. Two, max, and I’d not object to just sixty minutes.
• Several others (’70, ’77, ’80, ’83) I would halve, and the ’85 I’d quarter down to six hours.

But I’m a congenital late decanter.

[DRT]

• 1920: Once upon a time I had a Taylor 1927 that we started immediately after opening. It peaked at 15 minutes (not a very high peak, alas) and within the hour was sugary water. I see no harm in a zero-hour plan for the F20. If it needs more, well, we’ll have the whole evening.

The only reason I planned to open it here was to remove the sediment before the car journey. The bottle is a very light green and I can see some very fine sediment floating around now that it has been disturbed from it's 3 year slumber since re-bottling. If others are happy to take the risk of drinking cloudy stuff then I'm happy to pop it when I get there. Alternatively, I could decant and stopper it 30 seconds before I leave the house?

• 1975: I’m amazed that people believe that a vintage as poor as ’75 requires 8 hours. Two, max, and I’d not object to just sixty minutes.

I think I have had this once before and it was quite hot in the first few hours. I may be wrong. Happy to be guided by those with experience of this one.

• Several others (’70, ’77, ’80, ’83) I would halve, and the ’85 I’d quarter down to six hours.

But I’m a congenital late decanter.[/list]

I will decant these 4 immediately before those from the 60's so will be somewhere between 6 and 7 hours - OK?

I find 1985 impenetrable on the first day but I'm not going to complain if others would prefer a short decant time on this one.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Closely related to this subject, please could I encourage a thorough standard of photography. Labels, front and back, bottle number, capsule, and if appropriate also after capsule opened but before cork drawn, and the cork. See, in an effort at standard setting, the recent TN of Warre 1977.

[DRT]

jdaw,

Life is short and there are some things that end up at the bottom of one's list of priorities for no particular reason other than there are more important things to do on a particular day. Using nothing more than my fingers as an abacus and my previous experience of trying to obtain clear pictures of capsules, corks and labels I have estimated that I would have to find the time and the motivation to take approximately 300 photographs from which we could draw the 60 required to complete the set for the 10 bottles I will be bringing along.

I will endeavour to follow your standard if at all possible but please prepare yourself for a disappointment that will make your coping with the absence of an Eff-Tee-Pee-Majigger feel like a walk in the park.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Labels and capsules can be done the week before.

Also:

encourage

[DRT]

I will endeavour to follow your standard

[Ghandih]

Aha,

So, having only really dug into large quantities of vintage port with jdaw, my experience on decanting times is basically his. I'd certainly support the short time for the 1920 (the 1927 really did get up, yawn then die in about half an hour), and perhaps shorter times for the others, too. I'm intrigued by decanting the 2000 two days beforehand. I've had a few 2000s and they've always tasted impossibly fruity, so this may be just the thing - so I'm not disputing that one.

I begin to wonder whether your version of decanting is the same as mine. I run the port through unbleached coffee filters in funnels, into a decanter. Therefore, my take on the 1920 would be to bring it to Conky's asap (days before would be good), and then decant it lastminute.com before we start tasting. The majority (if not all) of the cloudiness is fielded by the filter paper, though the process is slow.

That's my opinion on decanting. Now dress. Again, in jdaw's presence it's always been black tie, but it's blatantly not critical. I have a personal DJ, too (tends to play lots of 80s music), but will wear smart or casual as the team dictates.

Food and drink. My belly appreciates a degree of lining before a Big Evening like this, with something relatively unspicy preferred, to protect the taste buds for the hard work to follow. Bangers and mash would fit the bill nicely. Baked beans with 'em, perhaps, and a glass of water. I don't feel the need to sink any beers beforehand, but don't begrudge those who do, either.
As regards later snackage, cheese is an excellent idea. Let me know if you'd like me to field this one, as I have port tasting cheese catering experience. (*)

Mats: don't have any legal paper. Could do A3, but so could others, so I don't think I can help here.

Glasses. Don't have any to bring, sadly. If you type 'port tasting glass' into Google, you get Julian's placemats first (?!) then a site that shows the shape of the glasses I think we should be using. I don't know whether that is much of a contribution to the debate, but there you go.

Mrs C. Agree pressie is a very good idea. Suggest we combine funds and get something impressive, just in case we upset her.

Cigars. I've been known to puff when tiddly, but a little one would be fine, because I don't do it properly.

Photos and records of all and sundry: Derek, jdaw is about as pedantic and finicky as you could ever wish (though sadly is neither the most pedantic nor the most finicky person I know), so I'd treat all requests for minute attention to detail with a pinch of reality. Explaining 'reality' to Julian may be tricky, but it could be easier than satisfying all his whims.

Ghandih

(*) Doesn't that sound like the sort of phrase Roy Castle used to use on Record Breakers. Here's Ghandih - he's a
Port Tasting
Cheese Catering
Record Breaker!
...or is that just me?

[jdaw1]

Ignoring the various aspersions cast about my excellent and realistic nature, I’ll instead strongly recommend that the Gandi be left in charge of cheese. His household is full of good cheese and people who know a lot about it.

[DRT]

I'm intrigued by decanting the 2000 two days beforehand. I've had a few 2000s and they've always tasted impossibly fruity, so this may be just the thing - so I'm not disputing that one.

That's the spirit of adventure we need on this type of occassion

I begin to wonder whether your version of decanting is the same as mine. I run the port through unbleached coffee filters in funnels, into a decanter. Therefore, my take on the 1920 would be to bring it to Conky's asap (days before would be good), and then decant it lastminute.com before we start tasting. The majority (if not all) of the cloudiness is fielded by the filter paper, though the process is slow.

Not quite. I use a Screwpull Stainless Steel port funnel which has a very fine mesh that traps all the bad bits. I am happy to bring the 1920 to Conky's and will drive very smoothly to ensure it doesn't get shaken up too much.

That's my opinion on decanting. Now dress. Again, in jdaw's presence it's always been black tie, but it's blatantly not critical. I have a personal DJ, too (tends to play lots of 80s music), but will wear smart or casual as the team dictates.

This team member will be casual, so if you lot opt for the monkey suits I'll look like the Goalie

Food and drink. My belly appreciates a degree of lining before a Big Evening like this, with something relatively unspicy preferred, to protect the taste buds for the hard work to follow. Bangers and mash would fit the bill nicely. Baked beans with 'em, perhaps, and a glass of water.

Good old British grub is fine for me. I still think big steaks on a BBQ would be good. What do you think?

I don't feel the need to sink any beers beforehand, but don't begrudge those who do, either.

I always follow the host in such matters and will therefore join Conky (and probably KillerB) in a beer or two while we get ourselves sorted for the main event.

As regards later snackage, cheese is an excellent idea. Let me know if you'd like me to field this one, as I have port tasting cheese catering experience. (*)

You are now officially known as The Cheese Man and have total responsibility in this regard, although KillerB also lives in a house made of cheese so he will probably bring some too.

Mrs C. Agree pressie is a very good idea. Suggest we combine funds and get something impressive, just in case we upset her.

Experience shows that we are unlikely to upset the lovely Debs anywhere near as much as Alan will in the few hours before we arrive. Alan has advised that less is more and I would suggest that we each bring a small token of appreciation for her hospitality and breakfast cooking skills.

Derek, jdaw is about as pedantic and finicky as you could ever wish

I find this almost impossible to believe

(*) Doesn't that sound like the sort of phrase Roy Castle used to use on Record Breakers. Here's Ghandih - he's a
Port Tasting
Cheese Catering
Record Breaker!
...or is that just me?

Surely it would be:

He's a...

Port Tasting
Sausage Eating
Cigar Puffing
Cheese Catering
Record Breaker!


Derek

[Conky]

Gandhi,

I'm not a great cheese fiend, but I do love a cracker or two, with Port, but with MILD cheese for me. The rotting corpse, or sweaty sock stuff makes me...

Fellow F Planners,

I'll get us half a dozen steaks. If the weathers good, a barby flavour will be fun.
I lean towards longer decanting, but I'm completely convinced by Julian on the F20. I can well appreciate it might be like a MayFly. One good hour and its done its stuff. I dont think I've ever had an older one, so it'll be of interest, even if its like dishwater!
Casual dress it is, unless KillerB wades in late with a DJ request. I'll be surprised if he does.
An regarding Deb, honestly, she's a good egg. If one of you gets a bouquet (She does like yellow roses) and you all chip in, she'll be happy. Like Derek said, its more important to dig me in the ribs, when I start Lording it when I'm drunk. I'm the worlds worst at, "Deb, while your there can you bring in 12 drinks and a buffet?" Avoiding that will ensure a humongus plate of well cooked dead animals the following morning.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Conky, if you’re still on for collecting me from the airport, we could cope with flowers on the return journey. And I need to visit Orange briefly: apparently there are stores at Lagrange Arcade, Unit 10 12 Lagrange Arcade, St Helens, WA10 1BN and at Unit 26 Church Street, St. Helens, WA10 1BD. If we could pause near one of those (which have suspiciously similar addresses), it would be a two-birds-one-stone scenario.

[Conky]

No problems.

Northern Industrial, impoverished, St.Helens Town Centre may come as a bit of a shock, but I'll be there to hold your hand.

[Ghandih]

All,

Thank-you for the promotion to purveyor of cheeses. I will not let you down.

Conky,you may rest assured that the choice of cheeses will not hum the place out so that port cannot be detected. At a previous tasting of jdaw's, we learnt the hard way that Stinking Bishop was not the way forward. I'd explain now but it'd spoil a good story, which will no doubt improve depending on how long we can delay its narration on the night...


Ghandih

[DRT]

You now have a special rank in recognition of your new position

Derek

[Conky]

F Planners,

Although I was hoping to borrow or rent, these glasses proved awkward by their rarity. I've been given a phone number of a Catering company, who apparently say they have Port tasting glasses, as described by my Lincencee mate.
If I confirm they are the right ones during the call tomorrow, its 48 for £40. Does that sound fair, and should I get them?

Alan

[DRT]

It seems an ok price provided they are really port glasses. Majestic also hire glasses and they should know what a port glass is. Is there one near you?

Derek

[Conky]

There's one in Warrington. I'll phone them first. A bit of a hike, so they'd have to be significantly cheaper to justify the petrol.

[jdaw1]

These are great glasses for drinking port. And you buy rather than rent: I’ll certainly chip in, but afterwards you’ll own them. A dozen glasses each. Would it be fair if I were to pay half the cost of my dozen, others doing likewise (or paying the whole cost, and keeping the glasses)?

[Conky]

So instead of £40 for adequate glasses, we pay £152 for great ones.
I've already got half a dozen, but I'd have around 20, if everyone else agreed, and we cut you some slack because of your 'visitor' status.
So I'd end up paying around £40 on my own, for extra glasses I'd hardly ever use. Instead of £8 for some glasses I'd hardly ever use.

Julian, your not a Financial Advisor, over in the States, are you?

Alan

[RonnieRoots]

Conky, you could try arranging some glasses through the trade department of the Portuguese Embassy. We did this once for a tasting and they provided us with the official port glasses for a tasting once. We were with a group of about 20 people (but we only needed one or two glasses a person). Another thing you could do is contact the British importer of Fonseca, tell them you're going to do a extensive Fonseca tasting, will write about it on internet, and ask them if they can give you support in one or the other way.

[DRT]

The total number of port glasses already available is 13+8+6=27, so we already have almost half of the glasses we need. I could content myself with 5 glasses for the evening as I see no need to have all 11 ports sitting in glass in front of me at any point in time.

Do we really need more glasses? If the consensus is yes, can we please pay £8 each (providing they are port glasses) rather than £40 each?

Conky, when you go to VNG in a few weeks time (lucky git ) you will be able to buy port glasses at the visitors centres for about 2 euro per glass

Derek

[DRT]

TPF Offline #2 Checklist

• Fonseca 1920 - on Death Row, decant 15 minutes before serving
• Fonseca 1963 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1966 - on Death Row, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1970 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1975 - on Death Row, decant at T-4 Hours
• Fonseca 1977 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1980 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1983 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1985 - Conky to advise status and decanting time
• Fonseca 1992 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-10 Hours
• Fonseca 2000 - on Death Row, decant at T-24 Hours
• Tatsing Mats Production - Jdaws Task (completed)
• Tasting Mat Delivery - Task to be allocated
• Glasses (27 available) - group to decide if more required
• Accomodation - all doss down at Conky's - Derek & Ghandih to bring sleeping bags
• Steaks & BBQ - Conky's Task
• Cheese - Ghandih's Task
• Cigars - Derek's Task
• Camera - Derek's Task
• Laptop with 3G/Wireless and http://www.flickr.com account - Derek's Task
• Collecting jdaw from Airport - Alan's Task
• Visiting Orange with jdaw - Alan's Task
• Lovely Debs Prezzie - Each guest to bring small token of appreciation, including Conky
• Breakfast - Lovely Debs Task

Derek

[Conky]

That sounds like the F Plan!

I was thinking of decanting the 85 around lunchtime, using Jdaw1's filter. Which gives it 4-6 hours-ish. Does that sound ok?

And Debs got 6 numbers AND the Bonus ball when she met me. So wont my presence be enough of a present?
No? Ok, I'll get me coat...

Alan

[DRT]

That sounds like the F Plan!

That's because that what it is

I was thinking of decanting the 85 around lunchtime, using Jdaw1's filter. Which gives it 4-6 hours-ish. Does that sound ok?

No. My experience of this wine (3 bottles in last 12 months) is that it does not change significantly until after 24 hours. It is an enormous big black beast of a wine. On opening it will pull your cheeks together and make you teeth squeak, and go purple. It will be the same story at 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 18 and 24 hours. That said - it tastes great (but it tastes even better about half way through day 2

And Debs got 6 numbers AND the Bonus ball when she met me. So wont my presence be enough of a present?

No

Derek

[Conky]

Ok, I'll decant the night before. I'll then filter it properly after Jdaw1's arrived.

[DRT]

I have just realised that KillerB does not have an official F-Plan Task. I therefore declare him Assistant Cheese Man

Derek

[jdaw1]

• I will print the tasting mats.
• Conky: I’ll pay for a dozen glasses for me, which afterwards might fall into the possession of Ghandhi. Please order and I’ll refund on arrival.

[RonnieRoots]

I have just realised that KillerB does not have an official F-Plan Task. I therefore declare him Assistant Cheese Man

That's a task well suited for the 4k bloke.

[jdaw1]

Dress code: since the DJ has been nixed, I’m thinking of getting t-shirts, with printed upon them, this picture (caution: graphic wider than your screen). The typefaces match, and the design is meant to echo, that of the placemats.

Is there passionate disagreement?

[Conky]

We'd look a right set of lemons! But I'm up for it. Can you get XXXL? I'm not small!

(One of the reasons I dont mind looking a prize pumpkin, is I've just found out the adjoining neighbours go on their Jollys that day, so noise or bad dress code, will not come back to haunt me! )

Alan

[jdaw1]

XXXL: if that’s what it is called. Or PM me your weight and I’ll tell that to the t-shirt man. Alex B is trim; I’m fifteen stone; Ghhhhhandi is only an edge lighter than me; others? Mixed male sizes?

What size is Debs? (Debs? Deborah? Please instruct.)

At a subsequent tasting with informal dress, you’ll wear the F shirt with pride.

Edit: it’s probably too late for complaints, I’m off to order shirts. One XXXL, three my size (prob XL), two one size down (prob L), and one M for Debs.

[DRT]

Edit: it’s probably too late for complaints, I’m off to order shirts. One XXXL, three my size (prob XL), two one size down (prob L), and one M for Debs.

Alan and I will have to take turns using the XXXL one

Derek

[DRT]

TPF Offline #2 Checklist Update

• Fonseca 1920 - on Death Row, decant 15 minutes before serving
• Fonseca 1963 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1966 - on Death Row, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1970 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1975 - on Death Row, decant at T-4 Hours
• Fonseca 1977 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1980 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1983 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1985 - on Death Row, decant at T-24hrs
• Fonseca 1992 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-10 Hours
• Fonseca 2000 - on Death Row, decant at T-24 Hours
• Tatsing Mats Production - Jdaws Task (completed)
• Tasting Mat Delivery - Jdaw's Task
• T-shirts - Jdaw's Task
• Glasses (39 available) - group to decide if more required
• Accomodation - all doss down at Conky's - Derek & Ghandih to bring sleeping bags
• Steaks & BBQ - Conky's Task
• Cheese - Ghandih's Task
• Cheese assistance - KillerB's Task
• Cigars - Derek's Task
• Camera - Derek's Task
• Laptop with 3G/Wireless and http://www.flickr.com account - Derek's Task
• Collecting Jdaw from Airport - Alan's Task
• Visiting Orange with jdaw - Alan's Task
• Lovely Debs Prezzie - Each guest to bring small token of appreciation, including Conky
• Breakfast - Lovely Debs Task

Derek

[Conky]

Spoke to the glasses bloke. Sent him a Email link to show what we wanted. He says they seem to be the same. I'll go and see on Tuesday, and if they are I'll buy 2dozen. Thats hardly any expense and then we'll all have 10 each. I think we should have a 'full placemat', with the opportunity to revisit which ever one you want as the conversation develops. (Can I say, I'm begining to really look forward to it, now its getting close)

Are you sure we have at least 30 already? We need 50 and a couple of spares, to be safe.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Man said t-shirts would take four days. Four hours later he calls me to say they’re done. Collected; and paperwork printed.

May I say, I too am looking forward to this? My taste buds are tingling at the thought of Fonseca from 1963, 1970, 1977 and 1985. And the other years. In fact, I might have to decant something as a warm-up: an athlete of my calibre stays in the best possible form though constant training. Blood, sweat, tears, and vintage port.

Edit: please could my status of “Tasting Mat & T-shirt Man† be changed to “Eagerly anticipating†?

Edit edit: by phone the wife and I have declared it to be an emergency. Decanting in progress.

[DRT]

please could my status of “Tasting Mat & T-shirt Man† be changed to “Eagerly anticipating†?

Done

[DRT]

Are you sure we have at least 30 already? We need 50 and a couple of spares, to be safe.

From previous posts I believe that you have 6, KillerB has 8 and I have 13. Jdaw asked you to buy 12 which means we have 39. If you buy another dozen we will have 51. We have 11 wines and 5 people, so we need 4 more to make up the set.

How much is it for 12 glasses?

Derek

[Conky]

He was saying they were on offer, because no one ever bought them He said £8 something plus vat. I think Julian wanted the fancy expensive ones. Apologies, but I've ignored that one. He's actually linked us to wine glasses. The Port ones are 4 ouncers, and were on another page.
So I'll need 3 dozen. Leave it with me. It'll get a bit panicky on Tuesday, if they are the WRONG sort.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

I would suggest you take one of you own port glasses with you to compare. There are lots of examples of glasses which are the same shape as the ones you have but much smaller and not suitable for a tasting.

Is he really asking £8 per dozen to buy or is this to hire?

Derek

[jdaw1]

Is there a picture online of said glasses?

[Conky]

No, there's no pictures. Its a firm called Kitchequip, but I cant find the glass section. I sent him the IVDP link of those glasses with the slight indent in the stem. He replied that those glasses were 4 ounce glasses, like the ones he's selling. He then said people show interest, but then think they are too small for wine. I strongly suspect we've found the right ones.
And yes £8 plus vat. I think he said £9.50 a dozen, but cant be sure. They could be a steal, but I'll only know on Tuesday. He said he only ever bought 4 dozen, and could never shift them.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

If they are as described then I am happy to take 12 for £9.50.

In fact, if they are as described I would suggest you buy all 48 and if KillerB doesn't want 12 I will take 24

Derek

[Conky]

Bloody Hell!

So we've gone all round the houses, considered all our options, double checked and re-affirmed.

And we're now back were we started. 3 or 4 dozen at low cost, to be split up the morning after! ARGHH!!!

Alan

[DRT]

I was under the impression that the £40 was a hire cost. Getting to keep enough port glasses to hold a tasting for <£20 is nt what I had expected.

Derek

[jdaw1]

suggest you buy all 48

Presumably that is conditional on timely delivery.

[Conky]

suggest you buy all 48

Presumably that is conditional on timely delivery.

Come on Jdaw1, keep up. Thats why I said I'm going to see them on Tuesday to confirm they are the right ones. If they are, they'll be bought there and then, and transported home.

I suspect that's the effect of that dodgy Noval Nacional you've just had? Derek brought my only experience of Nacional to an Off-Line once, and it was as you described. That was an 87 as well? Shame.

Alan

[Conky]

Just thinking, although there's lots of years we wont be trying, through price or rarity. Aren't we missing the 94? I accept its on the young side, and possibly a touch of infanticide, but wouldn't that have been better than the 2000?
I'm begining to suspect 94 is going to be a 5 star year as it develops. That a discussion for 'Port Topics' but whats the thoughts? If we have to do a youngster, and this is one of the occassions were I agree. The comparison will be fascinating, shouldn't it be 94?

Alan

[DRT]

I had the same thoughts myself but the problem is finding a source at this stage in the game.

Derek

[Ghandih]

Blimey! Postings here are accelerating fast. I think I'm still cheesy, I need a sleeping bag and a pressie, and something is happening with the glasses. If some are bought that I have to pay for and own afterwards, and the price is of the order previously mentioned, that's fine by me.

Am also rather very excited.

[Conky]

On Wine Searcher. Bibendum in London has two bottles for £73. And Derek was there all last week! Arghh!!!

Just out of interest, Crush Wines and Spirits have a half bottle for £60, in New York???

I'm very happy with what we've got, I am just getting a little greedy.

Alan