The Port Forum Offline #2 - 1st Sep 2007

[KillerB]

15 bottles of Port is enough for 5 people - honest. I think we proved this in Birmingham.

[jdaw1]

Count me for not more than 1½.

[DRT]

15 bottles of Port is enough for 5 people - honest. I think we proved this in Birmingham.

I can't remember - I was asleep

Anyway, we now have 4.9 confirmed attendees, 0.1 who just needs to say "yes, I'm definately coming", one who needs to sort some reasonable travel from the other side of the globe and one who keeps saying no but might still say yes if we keep badgering him for another few weeks.

So, that could be 7. A few more mouths on top of that and we could be requiring more bottles, or have enough dosh to replace some of the low end stuff with 1 or 2 more expensive ones.

Derek

[KillerB]

It is not low end stuff.

We are talking about Fonseca here. It is just young or not such good years, it is by no stretch of the imagination low end.

[DRT]

I was talking relatively.

I hear what you say, but bomething like F75 or F83 is definately low-end compared with F27 or F77. My point is that adding more wallets and dropping F75, 80, 83 and 00(too young) from the line-up may open up the possibility for 1 or 2 more 40+ year old wines to savour.

Derek

[KillerB]

You always need stars to shine in the Cosmos. If every star shone as bright as the Sun we would be blinded.

Philosophy lesson ends here.

[Conky]

That sounds like a man on the Cheeky Vimto's!!!

Make it as grand as we can (and can afford), but we cant really go wrong, can we?

[KillerB]

Yes, we can.

A genuinely top tasting needs good quality wines all the way through... we have that. It needs, at the most, two or three exceptional wines. If you overdo it on ecxceptional wines you will lose the standard.

I have come across people that say "I will not drink a wine under 90 points". This is bow legs, you lose perspective.

I was at the tasting of 63, 66 and 70 of Fonseca, Taylor, Graham and Sandeman, and I can promise you it was getting a bit picky. I was willing to discard Sandeman altogether as not having the 'it' factor.

It's not that I want to cut down the great wines, it's that I want to appreciate the ones that are there.

[Conky]

Fairy Snuff!

I'll cede that point, and it was well made. My only mitigation, is I dont have many of these Special nights and pure greed is kicking in.

Alan

[DRT]

KillerB,

I hear and accept the wisdom of your thinking. You win by a country mile.

I too was seduced into thinking the Sandeman trio, and even some of the other non-F's were in some way "inferior" ports. The truth is that all of what we consumed that night would stand on its own feet and give great pleasure in doing so.

Am I a spolied brat? Yes, I think I am

Derek T.

[jdaw1]

Please sir, may I live in a world in which Fonseca 1980 is low-end stuff — with or without the hyphen?

[DRT]

Yes, off course you can. No hyphen required.

[Conky]

Fingers crossed, in the most ordinary of surroundings, around the time that September dawns...you will be living in a World where its Low-End,

At least for one night!

Alan

[jdaw1]

Flights booked. CO100 EWR→MAN, dep 22:05 Fri 31 Aug arr 09:55 Sat 01 Sep.

How do I get from Manchester airport to chez Conky?

• Somebody will be en route to Conky themselves, at approximately a suitable time, and can collect me: volunteers?
• Public transport? Clues welcomed.
• Car rental — pessimal.

On arrival I’ll be needing a clean-up and two hours sleep. After that, I’m yours.

[jdaw1]

Glasses: with 10ish bottles, and say 6+ people, we’ll need 60+ matching glasses. Conky: do you have? Failing which, should I, as part of my contribution, buy some number of these (or maybe from here)?

[Conky]

All of those issues will be sorted in the next 5 weeks or so. Worst case scenario, I'll pick you up from the Airport, but your right, I think someone maybe able to coincide coming over and pick you up on route.
You can bed down at mine for a few hours and shower,etc.
We'll have to firm up numbers and see how many glasses the participants can muster, and maybe purchase a few more if needed.
Having spent the afternoon playing a 'couldn't get out of it' competitve game of golf, whilst the rain came down like stair rods, whats worrying me more is the weather. There's no problems with it being indoors, but it will be so much nicer, if we can catch a balmy late summer afternoon/ evening. Fingers crossed.

Alan

[KillerB]

I can bring my eight port glasses!

[jdaw1]

Whilst acknowledging that the shortage is of people rather than port, it should be mentioned that there are a few bottles in my collection located 20 miles south of Gatwick. If anyone can be in that neighbourhood before the 1st of September, and is able to transport from there to sunny St. Helens, there would be available Fonseca 1960 1966 1977 1985. Of these only the 1960 isn’t already on the list above.

[jdaw1]

I wasn’t there, but that won’t stop me giving my opinion of the evening.

• A great showing of people;
• many more than none of whom are much better than me at identifying ports blind (perhaps because my tastings are always sighted);
• a considerable quantity of port was consumed;
• resulting in some late-evening confusion (trains, bottles, usual stuff);
• and a complete absence of photos of bottles, liquid, corks, or people.

Am I wrong?

jdaw,

You are now elected as Official Scribe for Offline #2 - that is the most concise and accurate assessment of the evening out of all the posts in this thread

Derek

I am honoured and flattered to be offered a post of such grave responsibility. Though I cannot hope to aspire to the great standards of the Founders, the Ancient Lights of this August Institution, in my own modest way I shall endeavour to do my best† .

†  My best excluding the taking of photos, as the wife will have the camera.

[DRT]

jdaw,

I will be driving to St Helens from Edinburgh in the afternoon which is really the wrong time for me to pick you up at the airport, which I would have been delighted to do if the timing was right.

On glasses, I can supply at least 11. Not identical, but all are port glasses.

Derek

[DRT]

I am honoured and flattered to be offered a post of such grave responsibility. Though I cannot hope to aspire to the great standards of the Founders, the Ancient Lights of this August Institution, in my own modest way I shall endeavour to do my best† .

†  My best excluding the taking of photos, as the wife will have the camera.

Will Mrs Jdaw be joining us as Official Photographer?

[jdaw1]

I will be driving to St Helens from Edinburgh in the afternoon which is really the wrong time for me to pick you up at the airport, which I would have been delighted to do if the timing was right.

Well, thank you for thinking of me. When you’re an hour from Manchester call Conky to find out whether my flight [edit: CO100 EWR→MAN] is horrendously late. If it is, invent a plan with him and leave a message on my UK mobile 07768 95 0123.

On glasses, I can supply at least 11. Not identical, but all are port glasses.

If you’re willing to drink from them, they’re good enough. If not, well, not.

Will Mrs Jdaw be joining us as Official Photographer?

Mrs Wiseman thinks there are better things to do than spend an evening with men drinking port until drunk. How wrong she is.

[DRT]

Well, thank you for thinking of me. When you’re an hour from Manchester call Conky to find out whether my flight is horrendously late. If it is, invent a plan with him and leave a message on my UK mobile 07768 95 0123.

Your number is now on my mobile and I will happily hatch a plan if required.

If you’re willing to drink from them, they’re good enough. If not, well, not.

I have drunk from each of them many times and will happily do so again.

Mrs Wiseman thinks there are better things to do than spend an evening with men drinking port until drunk. How wrong she is.

Not wrong at all

[Conky]

Jdaw1,

your flights coming in at 10ish in the morning? So add half an hour for luggage etc, and thinking about it, its probably too early for someone coming over. I'll fall on my sword and collect you. If you do get delayed, that might actually help. But it can all get firmed up a few weeks before.

Glasses wont be a problem unless you want special ones. I know quite a few licencees, and even if they haven't got them in stock, I'll get them to purchase cheaper glasses, of a Port type, in any quantity from their trade suppliers. Obviously it will be cheaper if we russle up enough through the attendees. I'll have a camera that you've previously seen the results of. Nothing special, but adequate.

Now by all means keep thinking of the little things, but relax, it'll all get sorted. Two weeks before the event, I would like a firmer idea of numbers and Port line-up, the rest will sort its self. You just turn up chilled and looking forward to good Port.

Alan.

[DRT]

I think now that jdaw has gone to the trouble of booking flights it would be good if others would confirm attendance so that we can make some firm plans for wine, glasses and beds.

I think the current list is as follows:

• Corky - definitely
• jdaw - definitely
• KillerB - definitely
• Uncle Tom - definitely maybe
• Jay P. - maybe
• AHB - probably not but maybe
• The Roots - would rather be drinking German beer

Please confirm or update your status ASAP. Anyone not on the list remains more than welcome to join us.

Derek

[jdaw1]

[Edited in error]: Fonseca tasting placemats, and, for absolutely no good reason at all, a psychedelic version.

[DRT]

Excellent

[Alex Bridgeman]

I will be with you - but only in spirit.

I've got so may travel commitments between now and the end of September (including some rugby watching visits to the continent) that I will absolutely not be able to make it to St Helens for TPF Offline #2.

I hope you enjoy yourselves and have a fantastic time enjoying what should be some amazing ports, even the lesser ones

Alex

[jdaw1]

This offline also mentioned here.

[Conky]

I suspect the participants probably know the Fonseca History. But I was certainly hazy, and if you have the time, I found this.
It gives general background information of how Fonseca came to be and how it developed.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

In years to come port enthusiasts will read of the time when a group of the worlds finest and tasters gathered together in a town call St Helens to tackle the greatest line-up of Fonseca's ever known

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

I must say, i tried really hard to get some days off work to make this. I figured it would be a fun surprise to show up with some bottles. I really do want to meet you guys in person and have some fun. But work had other ideas since I am already taking time off work in October. Have no fear, plan "B" is in the works to try and stop off on the back to the states.

[Ghandih]

Aha,

So that wicked man, JDAW, in whose illustrious company several tens of VPs have met a happy death, informed me that some poor unfortunates in St Helens had got themselves into a terrible fix, and faced an evening of more VP than they could possibly manage. I hasten to add that this is not to impute them as amateur drinkers. Oh, no. But VP is a beautiful thing, and 15 bottles between four and three-possible people is going to be wasteful. Even if you drunk the lot, I troth it wouldn’t stay drunk. (this emoticon is called 'oops', but he's looking queasy to me).

Now, my professional line of business is saving the world. It’s a big job, I know that to be true, but someone has to do it. Luckily, there are a few of us at it, so I tend to concentrate on waste management. I get quite wound up by endless media campaigns grumbling about excess packaging; it is a problem, but a much bigger issue is wastefulness. They say that one third of the food we British buy is thrown away untouched, and that is criminal.

[Getting to point soon] So hearing about you chaps trying to shovel 15 bottles of port down four and three-possible necks makes me cross, because I know there will be leftovers. It might be the Fonseca 83 that gets left behind â€‟ I noted its (relative) ranking as low-end â€‟ but there are good folk (I like to include myself among ‘em) who would sit very happily in a corner all evening sipping F83 with a contented look on their faces. AND they’d do the washing up afterwards.

All this leads me to wonder whether I might be able to join the great event (subject to permission from the missus, who may well be keen to come along herself, presenting the issue of dealing with the issue - Isabelle, 18 months old), and do my utmost to help reduce the leftovers. For the good of the planet, you understand. Earlier discussions suggest that attendees might bring along a bottle themselves by way of entrance fee. I could certainly do this (supposing I can find a missing vintage), but I respectfully suggest that increasing both attendees and the port lake will not reduce wastage. Could we come to some other arrangement?

It might all fall through and not work and be rotten, but this is rather exciting. I hope we can make it work.


Ghandhi

[Conky]

Hope it all comes together. Jdaw1 speaks highly of you, but we'll still try to give you a chance!
You know you'll becoming to the Barren Wastelands of the North (Eh? AHB?). Now although I think we're quite cultured up here, I suspect if you use that mode of transport and dress, thats in your Avatar, we may be turning our event into some form of Memorial!
Its nothing personal, the REAL Gandhi would have struggled with his No Violence policy on a Friday night in Liverpool City Centre!

Alan

[jdaw1]

For what little it’s worth, Simon is the right-most man in this picture, which appears in this post.

[jdaw1]

Ghahhnhhhdhhhhihhhhh: if you’ll be passing anywhere near Gatwick betwixt now and 1st September, I could set you the task of collecting a bottle of F60 from my father’s. Just so that we’d have 16 bottles: it’s so much better to have a number that is both n^m and m^n, for integer m and n with m≠n.

Also, FYI,

If ever you fancy roughing it, we'll save you a chair at one of ours. If you can keep a secret, there's not ONE decent Tasting Note surfaced from them. Strange that. Dereks even brought his Leather bound TN's Book, and then just shamefully shook his head when he's tried to read it the following morning.

[Ghandih]

I have a client down in Sussex (Jim Beam, no less), so I might well be able to orchestrate a visit. I'll let you know if it looks like it might work.

I wonder if the evidence so far presented suggests that I might have the most organised tasting notes, given that I'm writing them down in a Black and Red book? It means they're all together, even though the comments get less revealing later on [eg I wrote "T27 hmmm". Thank-you, Ghandih, very helpful.]

I just spend 20 minutes adding my tasting notes on 1985 Martinez, which I thought might interest people. You won't find it on the website, though. I was using Dragon Naturally Speaking software to dictate the notes and many paragraphs in it just closed the window. All lost. Pants. Going to sulk now.

[Conky]

Ghandih,

Martinez 85? Wow. For sentimental reasons as well as taste. Thats my favourite Port. If you thought it was dire, I need a dark room and some pills to get over it. The bottle I had was actually Harveys 85, but that was just the American name for Martinez. See Here for a few verdicts.
If you can remember anything about it, I'd be quite curious. A full tasting note would have been fascinating, but such is life.

Alan[/url]

[KillerB]

I think Ghhhhhhahhhnhhdhhihh is saying that losing the notes was pants not that the Martinez was pants.

[jdaw1]

Feel free to add the M85 note here, noting carefully the correct title format of “1985 Martinez†. You had ten bottles as I recall, I taking two from that case.

Note: this post off-topic. Simon will be starting a new thread in which further posts on the subject can be made.

[Ghandih]

I feel I led us all a bit astray there, sorry about that. Silly computer.

I had hoped the venue might be the less well known St Helens in, err, Cornwall, or something like that, but I'm sure I'll probably be OK. I went to Liverpool once and got home again in one bit, and I've been to Manchester lots of times. Am I allowed to suggest that the two are similar in some way, or is that just classic Southerner ignorance? I'm from Hampshire by birth, and would be willing to say that Portsmouth and Southampton are fairly similar (to folk who don't class themselves as supporters of either team).

The tasting now seems to coincide with an event at the wife's hockey club, but she said there'd be no reason why she couldn't take the littl'un along with her. All in all, that counts as quite a large fraction of the Red Sea moving to one side to allow the (potentially) chosen one to the Promised Land. How exciting!

Any other obvious hurdles?

[DRT]

Earlier discussions suggest that attendees might bring along a bottle themselves by way of entrance fee. I could certainly do this (supposing I can find a missing vintage), but I respectfully suggest that increasing both attendees and the port lake will not reduce wastage. Could we come to some other arrangement?

Ghandhi,

I'm not sure we have enough mouths to contemplate adding further bottles to the line-up as yet, even though it may throw jdaw's formula into some kind of turmoil.

The plan so far has been that we will add up the total cost of the bottles in the line-up and then work out an even contribution from each participant. Those who have supplied the wines will have the cost offset against their contribution with any excess being refunded from the cash contributions of the others.

To ease your planet-saving consience I can confirm that there will be absolutely no waste other than the butts of Conky's cigars

Derek

[jdaw1]

The plan so far has been that we will add up the total cost of the bottles in the line-up and then work out an even contribution from each participant. Those who have supplied the wines will have the cost offset against their contribution with any excess being refunded from the cash contributions of the others.

That’s tickety-boo with me.

[Ghandih]

That seems about as fair as it could possibly be. My concern is that there is such a splendid line up of quality ports, I won't be able to stomp up my share. It all seems a bit vulgar talking about money, but could someone find a fag packet with no writing on the back and do a quick estimation of the total cost of the currently offered ports? This will then enable me to guess at what level of attendees I could join the party (if not already unceremoniously dropped for being so impertinent).

Ghandhhi

PS Like the way you chaps are getting the hang of the aitches. Well done.

[DRT]

Ghhhanhhdhhhhihhhh,

I have a very accurate fag packet that tells me that the cost of the 12 Fonseca vintage listed above is £997, providing they are sourced from Alan, Tom and I as we have already agreed prices privately that beat anything you will buy in a wine merchant.

The cost per person depends on the number of persons. I would say that 6 to 8 people could attend comfortably at 1.5 bottles of Fonseca each. If experience is anything to go buy there would be a few wildcard bottles thrown in for fun to see off the hard core at the end of the night.

If we have 6 people (Alan, Tom, KillerB, jdaw, yourself and I) that works out at £166.17 per person.

The biggest question remaining at this point in time is - "Tom, are you ready to commit to coming along?" - If the answer is "No", I fear we need a new theme

Derek

[Ghandih]

Derek,

Many thanks for the sums. 12 bottles and six people will be tough, and I thought there were 15 bottles at a previous count (not that I'm being greedy - I'm not sure I can manage two myself, but I'm brave enough to try).

Anyway, my notional top whack was £150. You're telling me £167, and I'm probably not going to bail for the sake of £17, but I'd rather not be pushed any higher!

I conclude from this that Tom must come along (agreed?). Beyond that, though, do we need still more folk? Should the nets be thrown out on the other side of the boat, to see what we might drag up?

Cheers,

Ganhdi

[jdaw1]

Should the nets be thrown out on the other side of the boat, to see what we might drag up?

Where do you think you came from?

[DRT]

The £997 covers the 12 Fonseca Vintages, assuming Tom is still coming and happy to supply most of the bottles

Bottles 13 to 15 are Fonseca Guimaraens bottlings from lesser years. Not essential and, to be honest, probably not a good choice in the company of their generally more gifted siblings.

Keeping it simple - we need Tom's participation to put the Fonseca vertical together and more people are still welcome to join in.

Can we please have a show of hands (posts) from those who are still committed to attending. Anyone who is not committing because of the planned line-up and/or cost please shout (by PM if preferred) and things can change. The most important aspect of the evening is to ensure we have 6+ nutters in one place drinking Vintage Port

In jdaw's absence I will raise hands for he and I. I think it's also safe to assume Conky will join in as jdaw and I will be drinking this stuff on his patio. So we have 3 confirmed. More confirmations, please?

Derek

[Jay P]

I think now that jdaw has gone to the trouble of booking flights it would be good if others would confirm attendance so that we can make some firm plans for wine, glasses and beds.

I think the current list is as follows:

• Corky - definitely
• jdaw - definitely
• KillerB - definitely
• Uncle Tom - definitely maybe
• Jay P. - maybe
• AHB - probably not but maybe
• The Roots - would rather be drinking German beer

Please confirm or update your status ASAP. Anyone not on the list remains more than welcome to join us.

Derek

The lineup looks great, the people fantastic, but I think I will need to miss this one due to work. Please toast me (and with the 27, not the 2000!) and enjoy what looks likely to be a night to remember!

Jay

[Conky]

If AHB had of made it, I would have suggested the appropriate dress code would have been...



But it's £30 a shirt, and he's not, so moving on...