ThePortForum.com

AHB wrote:I should also clarify that Warre make both styles. The one with minimal intervention is labelled as "bottle matured" and is usually bottled 4 years after the vintage and released after a further 2-6 years of bottle age.

I think I recall seeing the 2003 vintage in Waitrose recently. In 8 years time the 2011 vintage is likely to be well worth buying judging by the quality of the filtered version I had a couple of days ago.

uncle tom wrote:I came across a modestly priced offering of the unfortunately named Q. Revolta LBV recently - the blurb didn't say if it was filtered or not, and the image wasn't clear enough to read the small print on the label, but the bottle appeared to have a driven cork.

Have only previously come across this brand in Vinologia - no idea where the actual Quinta is..

Portugal Vineyards wrote:The Quinta da Revolta is a farm located in Campanhã, in Oporto, Portugal. The Quinta da Revolta was built between the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and owes its curious name for a possible rebellion that took place there around that time.

Like many others in the area, was the summer home of one of the great families of the Port, the Viscounts of Balsemão, owners of a magnificent palace in the city center. In 1851, the viscounts aforaram the property to his brother, José Pinto de Sousa Coutinho Target of Balsemão to later sell to the capitalist Porto José Duarte de Oliveira. In turn, in 1918, was bought by Alfredo Moreira da Silva, horticulturist, in whose family still remains.The farmhouse is on two floors, plant in "L", surrounded by boxwood gardens and the chapel to the house footprint. Access to the farmyard is done through a gate surmounted by the coat of arms of the Viscounts of Balsemão (Target, Brandão and Azevedo, with crown of viscount). The house is simple, modest, although large. In the chapel dedicated to Our Lady of Conception, the highlights are the elements of the interior tiles.

DRT wrote:

uncle tom wrote:I came across a modestly priced offering of the unfortunately named Q. Revolta LBV recently - the blurb didn't say if it was filtered or not, and the image wasn't clear enough to read the small print on the label, but the bottle appeared to have a driven cork.

Have only previously come across this brand in Vinologia - no idea where the actual Quinta is..

Portugal Vineyards wrote:The Quinta da Revolta is a farm located in Campanhã, in Oporto, Portugal. The Quinta da Revolta was built between the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and owes its curious name for a possible rebellion that took place there around that time.

Like many others in the area, was the summer home of one of the great families of the Port, the Viscounts of Balsemão, owners of a magnificent palace in the city center. In 1851, the viscounts aforaram the property to his brother, José Pinto de Sousa Coutinho Target of Balsemão to later sell to the capitalist Porto José Duarte de Oliveira. In turn, in 1918, was bought by Alfredo Moreira da Silva, horticulturist, in whose family still remains.The farmhouse is on two floors, plant in "L", surrounded by boxwood gardens and the chapel to the house footprint. Access to the farmyard is done through a gate surmounted by the coat of arms of the Viscounts of Balsemão (Target, Brandão and Azevedo, with crown of viscount). The house is simple, modest, although large. In the chapel dedicated to Our Lady of Conception, the highlights are the elements of the interior tiles.

It seems that Quinta da Revolta is a brand name rather than being a vineyard in the Douro. I'm not sure how they got that one past the IVDP.

uncle tom wrote:Inspired by this thread, I have today received some Offley LBV - it's the 2010

Packed in pretty individual cardboard cartons that were probably not cheap, the bottles have driven corks.

Beyond that there is no mention of filtration on the label, but it says it may be enjoyed straight away or after 'some' years in bottle.

- This is not very informative..

that LBV port is vintage port bottled later than the 3 year window and should be treated no differently than vintage port

uncle tom wrote:

that LBV port is vintage port bottled later than the 3 year window and should be treated no differently than vintage port

So can I take it that this wine is as unfiltered as a vintage port?

It should be, but it has also had 3 additional years dropping sediment into the lees so will not have the same amount of solid matter suspended in the liquid when bottled as VP would.

uncle tom wrote:

It should be, but it has also had 3 additional years dropping sediment into the lees so will not have the same amount of solid matter suspended in the liquid when bottled as VP would.

There are two issues here.

Removing sediment that has physically dropped during those three years is not a major issue IMO. Removing particulates that are small enough to remain in suspension however is much more worrisome - it appears to define the point at which a wine's ability to age becomes compromised.

uncle tom wrote:The IVDP created the 'Bottle matured' category for bottle aged LBV in 2002 (I think) but aside from Warre, who's duel offering can easily confuse, there seem to be very few takers for this category, with most unfiltered LBVs being sold straight after bottling.

I'm not sure even whether 'bottle matured' LBV has to be unfiltered, and add to that the use of T stoppers on some unfiltered LBVs and the emergence of the term 'soft filtered' on others, the whole LBV market is turning into a chaotic mess, that serves neither the producers nor the consumers well.

There needs to be clarity on the filtration front, with a clear definition as to the maximum degree to which an unfiltered port can be strained of solids, whilst retaining the descriptors 'unfiltered' or 'bottle matured' - and perhaps the use of T stoppers should be mandatory on filtered LBV and forbidden on unfiltered, to afford a further clear distinction.

AHB wrote:But Luis is one of the main reasons why LBV quality has gone up so much over the last few years The Sogrape brand LBVs are astonishing quality and value for money at the moment and are where I recommend starting a port collection to everyone and anyone - relatively cheap but with 2-3 decades of cellaring potential.

DRT wrote:

uncle tom wrote:

It should be, but it has also had 3 additional years dropping sediment into the lees so will not have the same amount of solid matter suspended in the liquid when bottled as VP would.

There are two issues here.

Removing sediment that has physically dropped during those three years is not a major issue IMO. Removing particulates that are small enough to remain in suspension however is much more worrisome - it appears to define the point at which a wine's ability to age becomes compromised.

Or, in other words, we are making the same point.

Properly unfilterd LBV will still have the ability to age, but will not have the aging potential that it would have had if it had been bottled as VP after two years rather than four to six years.

These are not "issues", they are merely facts

LGTrotter wrote:

DRT wrote:

uncle tom wrote:

It should be, but it has also had 3 additional years dropping sediment into the lees so will not have the same amount of solid matter suspended in the liquid when bottled as VP would.

There are two issues here.

Removing sediment that has physically dropped during those three years is not a major issue IMO. Removing particulates that are small enough to remain in suspension however is much more worrisome - it appears to define the point at which a wine's ability to age becomes compromised.

Or, in other words, we are making the same point.

Properly unfilterd LBV will still have the ability to age, but will not have the aging potential that it would have had if it had been bottled as VP after two years rather than four to six years.

These are not "issues", they are merely facts

Why would exta time in the pipe compromise the wine's capacity to age? I assume that some doubt exists for Tom to italicise the word "appears". If it is a doubt it is one I would share, as I cannot see why the shedding of another year or three worth of impurities before being confined to a bottle would circumscribe the aging potential. And yet it seems to. It is all a bit of a mystery. And I have wandered from the topic.

Having read this again it seems the the idea is that filtration is the problem, which experience tells me is true.

DRT wrote:I have no scientific evidence to back this up but it must at least be possible that the existence of the sediment in the same vessel as the wine has an influence on how it develops over time. VP is bottled with lots of solids suspended in the liquid that stay trapped in the same container (and occasionally mixed back into the liquid) until it is consumed. Unfiltered LBV has far less of those solids poured into the bottle because those solids are sitting in the bottom of the barrel. For me, that is a material difference that is likely to affect the aging potential of the wine.

Why would exta time in the pipe compromise the wine's capacity to age?

uncle tom wrote:Has Warre changed from late release bottle matured to filtered, or are they running both styles in tandem??