Software that makes placemats

Organise events to meet up and drink Port.
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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:06 Mon 30 Jul 2012

Uncle Tom has suggested another feature for the software, on which comment would be welcomed.

At some tastings there can be insufficjent table space for the TN sheets. So, for very formal tastings, such as the Olympic tasting, there should be A6 tasting booklets, properly bound. Much of this is easily acomodated: /TastingNotesPaperType /A6 def already works; and /GlassesOnTastingNotePages [ GlassesOnSheets {{[ exch ]} forall} forall ] def would put one port on each of the A6 tasting-note sheets.

So, questions:

• Would each tasting booklet require a cover sheet? Saying what?

• With one wine per A6 sheet, I think the pages should be less cluttered. The column titles (currently ‟Times”, ‟Eye”, ‟Nose”, ‟Mouth”, ‟Score”) can be zapped with /TastingNotesColumnHeadings [] def and /TastingNotesColumnRelativeWidths [] def, which would also remove the vertical dashed lines. Would there be any other changes to the required page layout?

• With one wine per A6 sheet, should each sheet have a copy of the glasses tasting circle. Small, or A6-fillingly big? It might be tricky to have that faded, but if possible, should it be faded? (Technical question in comp.lang.postscript.)

• Other suggestions.

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DRT
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 10:29 Mon 30 Jul 2012

jdaw1 wrote:At some tastings there can be insufficjent table space for the TN sheets. So, for very formal tastings, such as the Olympic tasting, there should be A6 tasting booklets, properly bound.
Given our habit of late changes to line-ups, attendance, etc I think the logistics of having these bound will prove to be extremely challenging.

As an alternative, we could purchase a relatively large batch of these and simply produce a sticker that could be applied to the front cover with the name and date of the tasting, perhaps with a second sticker listing the wines and attendees that could be placed inside the front cover as a title page?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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jdaw1
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 10:46 Mon 30 Jul 2012

DRT wrote:Given our habit of late changes to line-ups, attendance, etc I think the logistics of having these bound will prove to be extremely challenging.
If the binding is expensive per unit, agreed. But if it the the first item that costs most, each subsequent being relatively cheap, we could have some binders for un-named people, much as we currently do with TN sheets.
DRT wrote:with a second sticker listing the wines and attendees that could be placed inside the front cover as a title page?
Much less smart, as the pages would not be named with wines.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 11:26 Mon 30 Jul 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:Given our habit of late changes to line-ups, attendance, etc I think the logistics of having these bound will prove to be extremely challenging.
If the binding is expensive per unit, agreed. But if it the the first item that costs most, each subsequent being relatively cheap, we could have some binders for un-named people, much as we currently do with TN sheets.
Your response doesn't address my point, which is logistics, not cost.

A printer will require a significant amount of time to print, bind and deliver these to us. That time scale will be impacted by what is meant by "properly bound". My suggestion was intended to circumvent those difficulties, not to save money.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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RAYC
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 11:33 Mon 30 Jul 2012

binding is a bit OTT in my opinion. Printing in booklet form can be done on most printers, and A6 is small enough to be stapled.

However, I must say i do not find the space on the sheets, or the A4 format, to be a problem.

I would say tht TN sheets are better printed on standard A4 rather than heavy gsm cartridge paper - allows them to be folded and put in jacket for return home!

However, i did think the use of cartridge paper for placemats was very good, and i must admit i prefer the use of A3 to 2xA4.

Other suggestions? clipboards...?
Rob C.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 12:49 Mon 30 Jul 2012

RAYC wrote:I would say tht TN sheets are better printed on standard A4 rather than heavy gsm cartridge paper - allows them to be folded and put in jacket for return home!
Seconded.
RAYC wrote:However, i did think the use of cartridge paper for placemats was very good, and i must admit i prefer the use of A3 to 2xA4.
Agreed, except that DRT’s comment applies also to this.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 12:50 Mon 30 Jul 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
RAYC wrote:However, i did think the use of cartridge paper for placemats was very good, and i must admit i prefer the use of A3 to 2xA4.
Agreed, except that DRT’s comment applies also to this.
I can probably print A3 myself on similar quality paper. Happy to give a trial run for the next tasting. (when is the next tasting, btw....?)
Rob C.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 13:04 Mon 30 Jul 2012

RAYC wrote:I can probably print A3 myself on similar quality paper. Happy to give a trial run for the next tasting. (when is the next tasting, btw....?)
All good, and happily not needing any enhancements to the placemat code.

I think we need Tom to enlarge upon his suggestion.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 14:31 Tue 31 Jul 2012

Technicals
jdaw1 wrote:• With one wine per A6 sheet, should each sheet have a copy of the glasses tasting circle. Small, or A6-fillingly big? It might be tricky to have that faded, but if possible, should it be faded? (Technical question in comp.lang.postscript.)
Happily settransfer can fade the circles, as illustrated by the following code.

Code: Select all

%!

/SquaresForm
<<
	/FormType 1
	/BBox [ 0 0 60 60 ]
	/Matrix matrix identmatrix
	/PaintProc
	{
		pop
		0    setgray  0 dup 60 dup rectfill
		0.5  setgray 12 dup 36 dup rectfill
		0.75 setgray 24 dup 12 dup rectfill
	}
>> def  % /SquaresForm

<< /PageSize [84 228] >> setpagedevice

12 12 translate
SquaresForm execform

0 72 translate
gsave
{/null exec 0.2 mul 0.8 add} dup 0 currenttransfer put settransfer
SquaresForm execform
grestore

0 72 translate
SquaresForm execform

showpage 
(Works in Adobe Distiller; works in GhostScript; but settransfer ignored by Apple Preview. So good in the important two of the three.)


Forthcoming Placemat Feature
This suggests a more general feature, a boolean TastingNotePagesBackgroundCircles, and a real TastingNotePagesBackgroundCirclesFadingFactor, being both >0 and ≤1, and defaulting to 0.2. These would produce, on the TN pages, a diagonal stripe of circles, tightly fitted” , one for each wine on that TN page. If there’s only one wine ‟tightly fitted” would typically be the width of the page.

”  Tightly fitted? What if there are two pages of TNs, one holding five ports, one holding six? Should the circles be compelled to be the same size? I say not, as they are so faint, and as one typically sees only one TN page at a time.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 16:42 Tue 31 Jul 2012

Spiral binding is quite cheap to have done, and works better with a small format than other binding methods, as the pages are easier to lay flat.

Customising them to each participant would be a bit of a struggle, but customising them to the event would be quite simple.

Easiest way would be for each page to be printed four up on an A4 sheet. These can then be stacked and guillotined, and the sets offered up to the spiral binder, which punches and stitches in a single action.

I am also told by my printers that for an A6 booklet, placing the comb on the long side is much to be preferred.

I would suggest that the front cover be colour printed on 250 gsm card, the inner pages on 120 gsm white paper, with the last page on plain white card.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 17:16 Tue 31 Jul 2012

uncle tom wrote:Easiest way would be for each page to be printed four up on an A4 sheet.
Easiest for me would be to print to A6. Would that be difficult for the printers?
uncle tom wrote:I would suggest that the front cover be colour printed on 250 gsm card
Saying what? One or two lines of tasting title; name of person; that’s it? For simplicity of collation the person name could be omitted from the internal pages.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 17:29 Tue 31 Jul 2012

My take is that this seems to be a lot of effort for no functional benefit over A4 tasting sheets and very little aesthetic benefit. Particularly when 50%+ will never be used.

I have previously tried using an A6 booklet for notes before and must admit i prefer the width of an A4 page to scribble on, so would strongly favour retention of A4 tasting note sheets even if A6 option is incorporated.
Rob C.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 17:35 Tue 31 Jul 2012

Easiest for me would be to print to A6. Would that be difficult for the printers?
For short print runs, the printers use laser printers - printing A4 avoids the need to re-config the paper tray, and I'm not sure if the machines can handle paper smaller than A5.
Saying what? One or two lines of tasting title; name of person; that’s it? For simplicity of collation the person name could be omitted from the internal pages.
Title of event, date, venue, logo etc. - the cover could be personalised..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 17:37 Tue 31 Jul 2012

My take is that this seems to be a lot of effort for no functional benefit over A4 tasting sheets
The functional benefit is to overcome the lack of table space for A4 sheets.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 18:04 Tue 31 Jul 2012

uncle tom wrote:
My take is that this seems to be a lot of effort for no functional benefit over A4 tasting sheets
The functional benefit is to overcome the lack of table space for A4 sheets.
The few tastings where this has been a problem, folding an A4 sheet into thirds (or smaller) has done the trick for me.

A4 sheets on regular gsm paper (say, 75gsm) are also to be commended for folding down small for jacket pockets.

For fancy tastings, i can see an aesthetic benefit to an A6 booklet printed with card and bound.
Rob C.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 19:43 Tue 31 Jul 2012

jdaw1 wrote:(Works in Adobe Distiller; works in GhostScript; but settransfer ignored by Apple Preview. So good in the important two of the three.)
Error. Works in Adobe distiller, not in Ghostscript nor in Preview. See PostScript, and output from Adobe Distiller, Ghostscript, and Apple Preview.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 23:47 Tue 31 Jul 2012

Please inspect and comment upon the tasting-note pages in www.jdawiseman.com/2012/20120731_circles_on_TNs.pdf. The idea is that each A6 TN page would be for one port only, and could have this as a faint background.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by PhilW » 13:30 Wed 01 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:Please inspect and comment upon the tasting-note pages in www.jdawiseman.com/2012/20120731_circles_on_TNs.pdf
I looked at the pages; my comment was "ooh, a Graham's mini-vertical - yes please!"
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 13:48 Wed 01 Aug 2012

This looks like a regular A4 tasting sheet to me - I can't see how it could be guillotined to A6..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by RAYC » 14:38 Wed 01 Aug 2012

uncle tom wrote:This looks like a regular A4 tasting sheet to me - I can't see how it could be guillotined to A6..
I think this was to test the concept of the faded circle backgrounds, rather than the A6 format itself.

I was worried tht the backgrounds looked too dark on screen, but printed out they are sufficiently faded that they would not be a distraction from the handwriting.

As an alternative, I would suggest that on each page you could just keep the "G63" motif in big and bold lettering in top left corner and then incorporate the small "Graham 1963" lettering across the top of the page.

Guillotining to A6 will require careful thought about page layout, assuming the pages of the booklet will be double sided (which i think they should be)

Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Rob C.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by uncle tom » 14:54 Wed 01 Aug 2012

Should pages of the booklet be numbered?
That would help the printers make sure they don't screw up..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by DRT » 23:46 Wed 01 Aug 2012

RAYC wrote:My take is that this seems to be a lot of effort for no functional benefit over A4 tasting sheets and very little aesthetic benefit. Particularly when 50%+ will never be used.
I think this is the most sensible comment so far in this discussion.

Who are we making these for?

If it is for guests of the type and number that attended our most recent tasting I think they will go largely unused, and if not produced to a very high standard will appear rather naff and not worthy of a keepsake to remember the event. Personally, I would rather that our guests remember us for our Port and our company rather than our prowess at publishing fancy (or naff) tasting note booklets.

If they are being made for large tastings where 12 or 13 out of the 14 attendees are members of TPF they will be of very limited use as most of us either don't take/keep notes or we keep them electronically.

In both scenarios we should also consider how often this software is likely to be used:

>> How many 20+ person, 8-10 guest tastings are we likely to have in the future. I would suggest the answer is close to none.

>> How many TPFers want to carry a book home from a port tasting. I think the answer is probably close to the answer above.

So, is Julian being asked to spend lots of time creating software that will never or almost never be used?
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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:21 Thu 02 Aug 2012

PhilW wrote:I looked at the pages; my comment was "ooh, a Graham's mini-vertical - yes please!"
:-)
uncle tom wrote:This looks like a regular A4 tasting sheet to me - I can't see how it could be guillotined to A6..
RAYC wrote:I think this was to test the concept of the faded circle backgrounds, rather than the A6 format itself.
Correct: that example was just to test the faded replica of the glasses-page circle.
RAYC wrote:I was worried tht the backgrounds looked too dark on screen, but printed out they are sufficiently faded that they would not be a distraction from the handwriting.
Thank you for testing.
RAYC wrote:As an alternative, I would suggest that on each page you could just keep the "G63" motif in big and bold lettering in top left corner and then incorporate the small "Graham 1963" lettering across the top of the page.
So like the ordinary old-fashioned TN sheets, featuring just one port. OK.
RAYC wrote:Guillotining to A6 will require careful thought about page layout, assuming the pages of the booklet will be double sided (which i think they should be)
Some printers’ printers can auto-rearrange pages for guillotining. It is much much easier for me to supply a PDF of A6 pages. Tom, please ask your printer. And I prefer single sided.
RAYC wrote:Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Yes.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 09:23 Thu 02 Aug 2012

DRT wrote:If it is for guests of the type and number that attended our most recent tasting I think they will go largely unused, and if not produced to a very high standard will appear rather naff and not worthy of a keepsake to remember the event. Personally, I would rather that our guests remember us for our Port and our company rather than our prowess at publishing fancy (or naff) tasting note booklets.
This is a very good argument.

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Re: Software that makes placemats

Post by jdaw1 » 16:00 Thu 02 Aug 2012

jdaw1 wrote:
RAYC wrote:Should pages of the boolet be numbered?
Yes.
It is very easy to add parameters
  • /TastingNotesReplaceNameWithPageNum true def
    /TastingNotesPageNumCompoundString [(Page ) {TastingSheetNum 1 add 5 string cvs}] def
which is trivial to code and has a lot of flexibility.

(Note to self: make changes at end of TastingNotesInnerLoop.)

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