The 1000 finest wines ever made

[Alex Bridgeman]

One of my Christmas presents was this book, published by the guys who also publish Fine Wine magazine. It's based purely on their opinions and only wines which they have tasted themselves. It's a fun read, and they seem to fully appreciate the privileged position they are in and the phenomenal wines they have been able to taste.

Included in the top 1000 wines are a couple of dozen ports. In the next couple of days I'll post a list of what is included and where in the list each port sits, but I thought I'd give you the chance to at least think through which ports you would expect to see included in the 1000 Finest Wines Ever Made.

Anyone care to predict what they think the ports might be?

[KillerB]

Certainly at least one Fonseca. At a wild guess they will say 1977, whilst I would throw in any one of 1963/66/70/85 against it. They may have gone older but my experience of Fonseca is that I've just named the Wonder Years even though older and younger ones have been lovely.

Probably a NN as well. Don't ask me to pick a year.

[mosesbotbol]

A 1000 bottle wine book with 12 ports? Obviously they are not the right person to write book on wine. That is such a joke, a dozen bottles. This is no Broadbent list that's for sure...

How many ports would they consider on my 1000 bottle list? 20? 30? I think 70 ports would be fitting along with 30 Madeiras.

For vintages it would be '08, '27, '35, '48, '55, '63, and '70. I think you can fill in the blank with several brands for any of those vintages.

Fonseca, Taylor, Nacional, Croft, and Dow will be the brands with Sandeman mixed in.

[mosesbotbol]

Anyone care to predict what they think the ports might be?

1931 Noval
1948 Taylor
1955 Fonseca
1963 Fonseca
1970 Niepoort
1935 Cockburn
1908 Graham
1970 Dow
1967 Nacional

[Glenn E.]

Anyone care to predict what they think the ports might be?

1931 Noval
1945 Croft
1948 Taylor
1955 Fonseca
1963 Fonseca
1963 Noval Nacional
1970 Fonseca
1977 Taylor
1994 Fonseca
1994 Taylor
1994 Noval Nacional
2000 Noval Nacional

Hmm... 4 Fonsecas, 3 Nacionals +1 Noval, 3 Taylors, and a Croft.

[Alex Bridgeman]

The ports included in the 1000 Finest Wines Ever Made list are:

@991 - 1896 Martinez
@889 - 2000 Taylor
@885 - 1944 Hooper
@833 - 1970 Graham
@813 - 1927 Sandeman
@786 - 1942 Niepoort
@783 - 1896 Noval colheita
@691 - 1994 Taylor
@689 - 1952 Niepoort colheita
@649 - 1922 Croft
@579 - 1994 Graham
@553 - 1962 Niepoort colheita
@528 - 2000 Graham
@520 - 1927 Dow
@492 - 1904 Dow
@489 - 1904 Niepoort colheita
@477 - 1934 Niepoort colheita
@476 - 1931 Warre
@426 - 1820 Guilherme
@424 - 1927 Fonseca
@413 - 1975 Noval Nacional
@390 - 1945 Graham
@386 - 1966 Graham
@370 - 1887 Graham
@363 - 1992 Taylor
@362 - 1912 Niepoort colheita
@343 - 1966 Noval
@338 - 1962 Noval Nacional
@326 - 1977 Taylor
@311 - 1908 Cockburn
@303 - 1931 Niepoort garrafeira
@286 - 1927 Cockburn
@285 - 1937 Noval colheita
@259 - 1964 Noval Nacional
@247 - 1896 Cockburn
@222 - 1900 Niepoort colheita
@219 - 1963 Taylor
@217 - 1994 Noval Nacional
@208 - 1997 Noval Nacional
@206 - 1947 Graham
@195 - 1890 Burmester
@134 - 1970 Noval Nacional
@110 - 1927 Niepoort
@ 66 - 1878 Cockburn
@ 12 - 1963 Noval Nacional

and just as a matter of interest, the number 1 position was taken by the Latour 1961.

Personally, I think that this list must be as much a reflection of the ports that the authors have had the chance to drink, as it is a reflection of the best ports ever made. There are ports which I would expect to be on the list, which just don't appear - Fonseca 1963 or 1966, for example. Surely if the authors had drunk either of these regularly, they would have rated them as highly or better than the Taylor or Graham equivalents.

Who knows, but as a list it is quite fun to read through and I can't argue with their highest placed port.

[Axel P]

Interesting, Alex, could you please pass on the full title of the book.

Thanks

Axel

[DRT]

The ports included in the 1000 Finest Wines Ever Made list are:
@833 - 1970 Graham
@691 - 1994 Taylor
@424 - 1927 Fonseca
@413 - 1975 Noval Nacional

Surely the little sub-set of placements I have chosen casts a dark shadow over the relevance of this list?

I agree with Alex, there are too many great VPs missing from this list to make it believable that they have tasted enough to make a definitive list of "the finest ever made". Croft 45, Taylor 48, Noval 31, Nacional 31 and Quevedo Rose to name a few

[Glenn E.]

Surely the little sub-set of placements I have chosen casts a dark shadow over the relevance of this list?

As does this sub-set:

@217 - 1994 Noval Nacional
@208 - 1997 Noval Nacional
@134 - 1970 Noval Nacional

I'm sure the '70 Nacional is good, but better than the '97 which is in turn better than the '94??? Everything I've heard says that the '94 Nacional could some day rival the '63 as the best Nacional ever produced.

Oh well, at least they have the '63 at #12.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Interesting, Alex, could you please pass on the full title of the book.

Thanks

Axel

Axel, the title of the book is exactly the same as the title of the thread - The 1000 finest wines ever made

[Axel P]

Thanks, Alex, I just bought the book online as pdf. Should be downloadable soon. Everyone who likes some details, please let me know.

Best

Axel

[VJR]

Guess what my sister gave me for Xmas...

[uncle tom]

A fun title for a book, but impossible to compile; as there are simply too many wines made in the world.

With well in excess of a 1,000 wines made every year that have serious aspirations to quality, it is impossible for anyone - or even a small team.. - to properly evaluate them all..

I suspect we'd struggle to agree on the best 100 ports - let alone give them a ranking order!

Tom

[Roy Hersh]

Tom, 100 Ports, seriously?

I don't know that any table full of Port lovers could be assembled, and would agree on even 10 Vintage Ports listed in the same order of preference or within the same Top 10 list. That would be a very long discussion over many bottles of Port I'm afraid.



Glenn wrote:

Everything I've heard says that the '94 Nacional could some day rival the '63 as the best Nacional ever produced.

I hear the echo.



Moses wrote:

How many ports would they consider on my 1000 bottle list? 20? 30? I think 70 ports would be fitting along with 30 Madeiras.

50 at a minimum, but we are Port geeks so of course I agree with you. I also agree on the ratio of Port and Madeira too.




Alex,

A fantastic thread and I hope others will join in, as this is really fun to read!

I'd love to know where they put the 1989 Haut Brion, if you don't mind a slight drift -- just for a second, I promise. Thanks.

[Glenn E.]

I don't know that any table full of Port lovers could be assembled, and would agree on even 10 Vintage Ports listed in the same order of preference or within the same Top 10 list. That would be a very long discussion over many bottles of Port I'm afraid.

But it would be fun to try, wouldn't it?

[oscar quevedo]

Definitively Glenn! Maybe we can try to make a list. Each one of us can bring 10 names, not ranked, to the table. Repeated wines would get a higher score. The more a wine is mentioned, higher is the score. The most mentioned would get the first position.

Would this work?

[marc j.]

So where was the '31 Noval Nacional?? Or the '45 Croft?? I do find it an interesting list (the '75 Noval Nacional being listed as #413 really amused me) and of course this is something that would ebb & flow over time. Nevertheless, what struck me was the relatively high number of fairly obscure bottlings on the list.

Marc

[Alex Bridgeman]

So should we do as suggested, and try to make our own list of the 100 best ports ever made as judged when tasting them today?

It would be a bit of fun. I would include:
Nacional 1963
Fonseca 1963
Fonseca 1966
Croft 1945
Croft 1927
Nacional 1994
Noval 1931
Graham 1955
Nacional 2003
Noval 1997
Morgan 1945
Gould Campbell 1977
Fonseca 1948
Taylor 1948
Croft 1948
Croft 2003
Graham 1963
Noval 2003
Nacional 1966
Nacional 1960
Nacional 2000
Sandeman 1963
Vesuvio 1994
Vesuvio 2003

and then I'd need to think a bit harder. What have I missed?

[DRT]

Cockburn 1908
Cockburn 1912
Constantino 1941
Fonseca 1920
Calem Foz 1970
Dow 1980
Fonseca 1985
Vargellas 1987
Taylor 2003

[g-man]

I think the fonseca 03 is better then the taylor 03 though.

[DRT]

I think the fonseca 03 is better then the taylor 03 though.

Rule 1: No arguing about which are better than others until we have 101 on the list

[JacobH]

Hmm...In addition to (most) of the above:
Schofield 1908
Warre 1963
Warre 1970
Smith Woodhouse 1947
Cálem White 1933
Taylor 1955
Malvedos 1987
Vargellas 1965
Vargellas 1964

Vargellas 1987

Rule 1: No arguing about which are better than others until we have 101 on the list

Do we need 101 wines before we start arguing which ones shouldn’t be on the list?

[JacobH]

Incidentally, I make it 44 Ports listed so far

[DRT]

Vargellas 1987

Rule 1: No arguing about which are better than others until we have 101 on the list

Do we need 101 wines before we start arguing which ones shouldn’t be on the list?

Yes. That's Rule 2.

[mosesbotbol]

Is it fair to mention 1995 or newer ports? Would seem the verdict is still out on if they are worth of such a list.