21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

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jdaw1
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21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 17:09 Sun 20 Jun 2010

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 18:03 Mon 21 Jun 2010

Looking at the Df, Ni and RO the Df is a pale burgundy colour, the Ni is a very promising deep mahogany and the RO is a surprising mature red - the sort of colour I would expect a mature port to be.
Last edited by AHB on 09:02 Wed 23 Jun 2010, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 18:16 Mon 21 Jun 2010

Thread for 1982 Royal Oporto created, and added to the lists of links.

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by DRT » 21:33 Mon 21 Jun 2010

I think I may have inadvertantly donated an RO82 to the line-up. I hope my port-buddies enjoy it. But if not, I hope they don't send me a sample :?
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 21:35 Mon 21 Jun 2010

DRT wrote:I think I may have inadvertantly donated an RO82 to the line-up. I hope my port-buddies enjoy it. But if not, I hope they don't send me a sample :?
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=36201#p36201]Here[/url] AHB wrote:Unpleasant bottle stink on the nose, very elastic band. Lovely texture, very smooth but also quite acidic on the tongue. Not much fruit in the profile, but there is some juniper and lots of acidity. Big burn on swallowing followed by a very sweet and cloying finish. 82/100.
Derek needs a sample.

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 23:04 Mon 21 Jun 2010

DRT wrote:I think I may have inadvertantly donated an RO82 to the line-up.
This needs further thought. For what possible purpose could DRT own a RO82?
  • A horizontal of 1982? Just like tonight’s, perhaps. And, be truthful, they don’t happen often. This could be the last. Given the general drink now theme of the TNs, it really could be the last. So why inadvertent? (And that ignores the mis-spelling.)
  • A Royal Oporto vertical? Really?! DRT is to attend a Royal Oporto vertical? Why not make it a Royal Oporto and Hutcheson double vertical, so that we both need to be absent for only one tasting rather than two.
  • Drinking pleasure? One can be lucky. Most weeks somebody wins the lottery. But did you really buy a RO82 expecting drinking pleasure? Really? (Did you really expect it to be good enough to earn an AHB score of ‟82/100”?)

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by DRT » 23:15 Mon 21 Jun 2010

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:I think I may have inadvertantly donated an RO82 to the line-up.
This needs further thought. For what possible purpose could DRT own a RO82?
Unless AHB tells us otherwise it seems my tentative enquiry of Davy's wine shop resulted in an RO82 being delivered to TCP in anticipation of me turning up to purchase it. I didn't know it was there until AHB arrived at TCP this evening, at which point I issued the donation instruction. You should note that it was an instruction to drink it: but mostly it was an instruction not to save it to give to me at a later date. It is possible that another attendee organised to have this bottle present. If that is the case I will happily withdraw my claim to the donation.
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 23:30 Mon 21 Jun 2010

DRT wrote:Unless AHB tells us otherwise it seems my tentative enquiry of Davy's wine shop resulted in an RO82 being delivered to TCP in anticipation of me turning up to purchase it. I didn't know it was there until AHB arrived at TCP this evening, at which point I issued the donation instruction. You should note that it was an instruction to drink it: but mostly it was an instruction not to save it to give to me at a later date. It is possible that another attendee organised to have this bottle present. If that is the case I will happily withdraw my claim to the donation.
In which case we humbly retract the foolish slur upon your excellent character, and fully concur with your excellent assessment of the likelihood of RO82 giving drinking pleasure. Our error was the result of foolishness on the part of the journalist author, who is no longer in our employ. We fully agree with your description of the course of events, and prostrate ourselves in abject apology for our unacceptable, perhaps even reckless, lack of integrity and fact checking. We was wrong.

Though you should have known what was going on and instructed keeping the RO on the placemats. Plonker!

(No remark should be passed on my never having worked for Private Eye.)

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by Chris Doty » 10:02 Tue 22 Jun 2010

Many thanks to Wolfgang and Tom for the inspiration, Julian for the placemats, AHB for booking and Jacob for printing (I, as the American, was naturally the most honored guest).

I am pleased (and at least somewhat surprised) to report that as a class, the 1982s appear to be heads and shoulders above the 75s and the 78s that we've had lately. Generally mid-weight, with some composure, spice, and of moderate length, while none were really knockouts in my book, they were quite pleasant for casual, current consumption.

I am comfortable saying that I would put them in the exact same camp as the 1960s, except to say that with the 60 vintage, I felt that there was once more fruit, and we had simply tasted them a little beyond their prime (to my palate). With the 1982s, I feel like these are likely at the top of their drinking windows, with only perhaps one or two seeming likely to benefit with additional time.

Notes to be posted shortly (whenever my boss goes for coffee)

1970s next?!

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by WS1 » 21:05 Tue 22 Jun 2010

The evening as whole was in my eyes a success. The 1982 vintage Ports have come round nicely and are currently at their peak! However in most cases the 1980 and 1983 are stronger and fuller/better ports. On the other hand this vintage is not bad at all for Port and if you value them for what they are price - value for money this is very good indeed.
They are defintely a lot better than 1978 and 1975.

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by JacobH » 17:22 Wed 23 Jun 2010

WS1 wrote:The evening as whole was in my eyes a success. The 1982 vintage Ports have come round nicely and are currently at their peak! However in most cases the 1980 and 1983 are stronger and fuller/better ports. On the other hand this vintage is not bad at all for Port and if you value them for what they are price - value for money this is very good indeed.
They are defintely a lot better than 1978 and 1975.
I would completely agree, although I think the Niepoort and some of the others still have the potential to improve quite a bit in the coming years. That said I wouldn't be unhappy to have a case of any of these (Royal Oporto notwithstanding) in my cellar for their current costs for regular drinking. Many thanks to Wolfgang for organising this and to him and Tom for providing most of the bottles.

Using JDAW1's new scoring sheet, I think wine of the night was the Niepoort (if one conducts the election by 3 points for a 1st choice, 2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd) or a tie between the Niepoort and the Eira Vehla if one conducts the election by STV. :shock:
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by jdaw1 » 17:51 Wed 23 Jun 2010

JacobH wrote:Using JDAW1's new scoring sheet
Maiden usage: please suggest improvements, or state impossibility of same, in the relevant thread. Thanks.

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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by Glenn E. » 20:27 Wed 23 Jun 2010

JacobH wrote:I think wine of the night was the Niepoort (if one conducts the election by 3 points for a 1st choice, 2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd) or a tie between the Niepoort and the Eira Vehla if one conducts the election by STV. :shock:
Yes but FIFA disallowed some of the votes and isn't required to explain their reasoning, so the Royal Oporto won. :wink:
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 12:54 Thu 24 Jun 2010

I was a little nervous at the suggested theme before the event, having drunk very little from this vintage and having a preconception that the vintage is on a par with 1975.

However, having tasted the 8 or so wines we had available, I am really pleased that Wolfgang suggested the theme and that he and Tom were able to pull together a representative sample of ports from 1982.

Overall, I was surprised at how pleasant these were. As others have already remarked, most of these wines are drinking pretty much at their peak today. One or two of them really hit a sweet spot with me with a delightful combination of primary and secondary fruit and plenty of soft tannin and good structure. Even the Delaforce - which was the lightest of them all in colour and is probably on a decline - was lovely to drink.

A very interesting evening and one which I thoroughly enjoyed - rounded off by the usual excellent service from The Crusting Pipe.

Next up, 1970 blind tasting on July 15.
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by JacobH » 13:51 Fri 25 Jun 2010

AHB wrote: Even the Delaforce - which was the lightest of them all in colour and is probably on a decline - was lovely to drink.
It might be worth mentioning that even if others thought the Niepoort or Eira Velha were better, the Delaforce was the quickest bottle to be finished by quite a long way...
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 14:00 Sat 26 Jun 2010

I do recall that Caroline had a particular fondness for the Delaforce. She and I seemed to be passing that bottle between us quite often.
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by DRT » 19:49 Sat 26 Jun 2010

AHB very kindly sent me 5 samples (numbered 1 to 5 with no clue as to which is which) from this tasting and asked me not to read this thread or the TN threads until I posted my thoghts on the samples. Apart from my very early (pre-instruction) posts above I have complied with AHB's instructions.

Here are my TN's from the five samples:
  • Sample 1: Very light colour with some hints of a Hutcheson-like orange-brownness. The nose is of very sweet toffee with lots of spirit. A bit thin in the mouth - very evolved and tawny-like. Not entirely unpleasant but not something I would enjoy drinking. The finish is very hot. I haven't paid much attention to what was in the line-up for this off-line but do know that a Royal Oporto turned up and my guess is that this is it.
  • Sample 2: A nice ruby red. A dusty nose hiding some red fruits. Cranberry juice? A nice smooth mouth-filling Port with good structure, lots of tannin and a very dry finish. I like this but keep getting a sense that it is slightly corked. My guess is Sandeman 82.
  • Sample 3: This smells foul. Lots of VA. The colour is quite dark but more brown than red. Very thick texture but just not nice at all. Damaged? It reminds me of the Niepoort 82 Christopher, Andy and I shared a few weeks ago.
  • Sample 4: A very nice dark ruby colour. A hint of VA on the nose (or is my nose still full of the stink of Samle 3?). Lovely fruity entry with some citrus. Good solid Port. Still some tannins kicking around but I get the feeling this is at its best right now. Croft?
  • Sample 5: Light brownish red colour. Looks very evolved, but not as much as Sample 1. Puff Candy (Cinder Toffee) nose. Mid weight. A smooth entry but then some bitterness. Definitely over the hill but reasonable for drinking now. I have no idea what this is.
From this showing, admittedly not in ideal conditions as the bottles were opened four days ago and the samples have endured a journey via Royal Mail in hot conditions and then 3 days in my fridge, I am not a big fan of 1982. Samples 2 and 4 are Ports that I would probably buy for current drinking at the right price. £20-25 seems enough to me for both of these but they would probably have to be cheaper than that to persuade me to part with my cash. Sample 1 and Sample 5 are not good Ports. Thy are far too evolved for VPs of this age. Sample 3 is hopefully a spoiled bottle. The colour and texture suggest to me that they would be in the same league as 2 and 4 if it wasn't for that awful smell.

A big thanks to AHB for sending me the samples. It was great to have the opportunity to do this and to learn that it's probably best to avoid the 1982 vintage unless I find it at around £15 per bottle :wink:

So, come on AHB, please put me out of my misery and tell me the results of my blind tasting. But please. please, please don't tell me that Sample 1 was wine of the night!!!! :lol:

My WOTF is Sample 2.

Derek
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 08:03 Sun 27 Jun 2010

DRT wrote:AHB very kindly sent me 5 samples (numbered 1 to 5 with no clue as to which is which) from this tasting and asked me not to read this thread or the TN threads until I posted my thoghts on the samples. Apart from my very early (pre-instruction) posts above I have complied with AHB's instructions.

Here are my TN's from the five samples:
  • Sample 1: Very light colour with some hints of a Hutcheson-like orange-brownness. The nose is of very sweet toffee with lots of spirit. A bit thin in the mouth - very evolved and tawny-like. Not entirely unpleasant but not something I would enjoy drinking. The finish is very hot. I haven't paid much attention to what was in the line-up for this off-line but do know that a Royal Oporto turned up and my guess is that this is it.
  • Sample 2: A nice ruby red. A dusty nose hiding some red fruits. Cranberry juice? A nice smooth mouth-filling Port with good structure, lots of tannin and a very dry finish. I like this but keep getting a sense that it is slightly corked. My guess is Sandeman 82.
  • Sample 3: This smells foul. Lots of VA. The colour is quite dark but more brown than red. Very thick texture but just not nice at all. Damaged? It reminds me of the Niepoort 82 Christopher, Andy and I shared a few weeks ago.
  • Sample 4: A very nice dark ruby colour. A hint of VA on the nose (or is my nose still full of the stink of Samle 3?). Lovely fruity entry with some citrus. Good solid Port. Still some tannins kicking around but I get the feeling this is at its best right now. Croft?
  • Sample 5: Light brownish red colour. Looks very evolved, but not as much as Sample 1. Puff Candy (Cinder Toffee) nose. Mid weight. A smooth entry but then some bitterness. Definitely over the hill but reasonable for drinking now. I have no idea what this is.
From this showing, admittedly not in ideal conditions as the bottles were opened four days ago and the samples have endured a journey via Royal Mail in hot conditions and then 3 days in my fridge, I am not a big fan of 1982. Samples 2 and 4 are Ports that I would probably buy for current drinking at the right price. £20-25 seems enough to me for both of these but they would probably have to be cheaper than that to persuade me to part with my cash. Sample 1 and Sample 5 are not good Ports. Thy are far too evolved for VPs of this age. Sample 3 is hopefully a spoiled bottle. The colour and texture suggest to me that they would be in the same league as 2 and 4 if it wasn't for that awful smell.

A big thanks to AHB for sending me the samples. It was great to have the opportunity to do this and to learn that it's probably best to avoid the 1982 vintage unless I find it at around £15 per bottle :wink:

So, come on AHB, please put me out of my misery and tell me the results of my blind tasting. But please. please, please don't tell me that Sample 1 was wine of the night!!!! :lol:

My WOTF is Sample 2.

Derek
Sample 1 was the Delaforce
Sample 2 was the Eira Velha and was our wine of the night
Sample 3 was the Royal Oporto
Sample 4 was the Eira Velha again, because we really couldn't let you off that easily
Sample 5 was the Croft
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 08:41 Sun 27 Jun 2010

Voting for Wine of the Night was:

Churchill - no votes
Croft - second place x 2, third place x 1 = 5 points
Delaforce - first place x 1, third place x 2 = 5 points
Eira Velha - first place x 3, third place x 1 = 10 points
Royal Oporto - no votes
Niepoort - first place x 1, second place x 4, third place x 1 = 12 points
Noval - first place x 1, third place x 1 = 4 points
Sandeman - no votes

It irritated me at the time that the wine of the night could be selected because most people thought it was nearly the best wine of the evening. Perhaps the solution is a weighted points system - 1 point for third favourite, 3 for second favourite and 5 for favourite WOTN? No, that still wouldn't have worked...
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by DRT » 15:33 Sun 27 Jun 2010

AHB wrote:
DRT wrote:
  • Sample 2: A nice ruby red. A dusty nose hiding some red fruits. Cranberry juice? A nice smooth mouth-filling Port with good structure, lots of tannin and a very dry finish. I like this but keep getting a sense that it is slightly corked. My guess is Sandeman 82.
  • Sample 4: A very nice dark ruby colour. A hint of VA on the nose (or is my nose still full of the stink of Samle 3?). Lovely fruity entry with some citrus. Good solid Port. Still some tannins kicking around but I get the feeling this is at its best right now. Croft?
My WOTF is Sample 2.
Sample 2 was the Eira Velha and was our wine of the night
Sample 4 was the Eira Velha again, because we really couldn't let you off that easily
I am so pleased that my two TNs from this same bottle are exactly the same :roll: :lol:
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by AHB » 16:41 Sun 27 Jun 2010

DRT wrote:
AHB wrote:
DRT wrote:
  • Sample 2: A nice ruby red. A dusty nose hiding some red fruits. Cranberry juice? A nice smooth mouth-filling Port with good structure, lots of tannin and a very dry finish. I like this but keep getting a sense that it is slightly corked. My guess is Sandeman 82.
  • Sample 4: A very nice dark ruby colour. A hint of VA on the nose (or is my nose still full of the stink of Samle 3?). Lovely fruity entry with some citrus. Good solid Port. Still some tannins kicking around but I get the feeling this is at its best right now. Croft?
My WOTF is Sample 2.
Sample 2 was the Eira Velha and was our wine of the night
Sample 4 was the Eira Velha again, because we really couldn't let you off that easily
I am so pleased that my two TNs from this same bottle are exactly the same :roll: :lol:
As we know, it happens to all of us. My claim to fame is still being unable to spot which two glasses out of the 10(?) 1980s we tasted were from the same magnum of Fonseca. Mind you, I wasn't the only one...
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by Glenn E. » 17:54 Sun 27 Jun 2010

AHB wrote:Voting for Wine of the Night was:

Churchill - no votes
Croft - second place x 2, third place x 1 = 5 points
Delaforce - first place x 1, third place x 2 = 5 points
Eira Velha - first place x 3, third place x 1 = 10 points
Royal Oporto - no votes
Niepoort - first place x 1, second place x 4, third place x 1 = 12 points
Noval - first place x 1, third place x 1 = 4 points
Sandeman - no votes

It irritated me at the time that the wine of the night could be selected because most people thought it was nearly the best wine of the evening. Perhaps the solution is a weighted points system - 1 point for third favourite, 3 for second favourite and 5 for favourite WOTN? No, that still wouldn't have worked...
A common problem with voting/scoring systems. However, the bolded statement isn't entirely correct. The Niepoort wins based on the fact that everyone thought it was worthy of at least some medal - 6 total votes vs 4 total votes for the Eira Velha. What this tells you is that the Eira Velha was likely somewhat polarizing - some people really liked it while others didn't like it much at all. The Niepoort was consistently considered to be very good or excellent by (apparently) everyone.

The counter-question is this: How would you feel if the WOTN was one that some people didn't even feel deserved a bronze medal?

I used to run tournaments for a game that used a scoring system that I created because of this very conundrum. Other examples of similar systems are the ones used by F1 and NASCAR for their annual series championships.
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by Glenn E. » 18:01 Sun 27 Jun 2010

AHB wrote:My claim to fame is still being unable to spot which two glasses out of the 10(?) 1980s we tasted were from the same magnum of Fonseca. Mind you, I wasn't the only one...
A more memorable result for me was a tasting in which you and Roy both managed to identify 4 out of 7 pairs of Ports. At least I think it was the two of you. Each pair of Ports was a Fonseca and a Taylor from the same year, you knew the year, and all you had to do was pick which was which. Two of the most experienced tasters that I know could do no better (statistically) than a coin flip.

That result laid to rest all of my questions about house style. :lol:
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Re: 21st June 2010, horizontal of 1982

Post by JacobH » 21:35 Tue 29 Jun 2010

AHB wrote:
DRT wrote:
AHB wrote:
DRT wrote:
  • Sample 2: A nice ruby red. A dusty nose hiding some red fruits. Cranberry juice? A nice smooth mouth-filling Port with good structure, lots of tannin and a very dry finish. I like this but keep getting a sense that it is slightly corked. My guess is Sandeman 82.
  • Sample 4: A very nice dark ruby colour. A hint of VA on the nose (or is my nose still full of the stink of Samle 3?). Lovely fruity entry with some citrus. Good solid Port. Still some tannins kicking around but I get the feeling this is at its best right now. Croft?
My WOTF is Sample 2.
Sample 2 was the Eira Velha and was our wine of the night
Sample 4 was the Eira Velha again, because we really couldn't let you off that easily
I am so pleased that my two TNs from this same bottle are exactly the same :roll: :lol:
As we know, it happens to all of us. My claim to fame is still being unable to spot which two glasses out of the 10(?) 1980s we tasted were from the same magnum of Fonseca. Mind you, I wasn't the only one...
I think, all things considered, that’s a pretty good effort from DRT. I hate to think what I’d do in a similar circumstance!
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