Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

What happened?
User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 00:13 Fri 02 Dec 2011

On Wednesday 30th November 2011, in honour of DRT’s presence in London, at The Steak Exchange EC2A 2EH, port was drunk. Links:

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 01:01 Fri 02 Dec 2011

Image

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 12:52 Fri 02 Dec 2011

A really good line-up of fully mature port.

- 1967 has much to recommend it - i have now had very nice bottles of Roeda, Cockburn and Martinez. Not blockbuster stuff, but certainly makes for nice drinking at this particular point in time.

- I am reconsidering my position on Taylor and on 77s! Two examples of the Taylor recently that have been very good indeed. Though i think its drinking very well now, putting me at odds with the table who all thought it needed more time in the cellar.

- There's a place in my cellar for cheap bottles of Cockburn 75 to be opened for pop and pour emergencies. But perhaps i would choose something else to serve to friends at dinner.

- I am yet to be completely blown away by a Warre (save, perhaps, for the 66), though they do seem to be consistent in providing very solid drinking.

- Steak Exchange do a good lemon posset.

Thoughts on Steak Exchange? I still like, it serves good steak with very fine service, and it is a good option to have, but the kitchen aromas did get in the way of the port a bit. Should we broaden our horizons by looking at others in the Davy's chain...? Or others not in the Davy's chain?
Rob C.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 14:06 Fri 02 Dec 2011

This was a very good line-up of ports and an excellent evening. Tasting notes will follow.

I like the food at TSE but the kitchen smells and poor lighting are not ideal. I also think it is an expensive solution to our need to have an appropriate venue to taste port. For me, the main reasons for these evenings are the Port and the company. The food has to be good but it is not essential that it is fancy. If I was going out to find a very nice place to eat a very nice steak I would happily choose to pay the £50-60 per head it takes to do that at TSE. But at 200% of the cost of an average night at TCP I do not think that is good value, especially as the steak isn't the reason for being there.

I actually struggle to find a sound reason for looking for an alternative to TCP. We have always been treated well there, they know us and now know exactly what we need from them. I know that some do not like big tastings there but that is what RAFC is best for.

Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 14:17 Fri 02 Dec 2011

DRT wrote:I actually struggle to find a sound reason for looking for an alternative to TCP.
how about two:
[b]By email to DRT, Crusting Pipe[/b] wrote:Unfortunately there has been a power cut affecting the Crusting Pipe which means that we will be closed for the rest of today, Wednesday 30th November, including this evening.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5121#p43750][b]here[/b][/url][b], AHB - neatly surmising the issue with Crusting Pipe in summer -[/b] wrote:To try and combat the heat and humidity that you can get in the Crusting Pipe in the summer, how about using the Steak Exchange again? They have air conditioning!
Others:
- nice to have variety every now and again
- TCP do not do chips!
Rob C.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 14:21 Fri 02 Dec 2011

The first three are just splitting hairs but you've got me banged to rights on the chips issue :roll:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11456
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by AHB » 14:40 Fri 02 Dec 2011

RAYC wrote:
DRT wrote:
[b]By email to DRT, Crusting Pipe[/b] wrote:Unfortunately there has been a power cut affecting the Crusting Pipe which means that we will be closed for the rest of today, Wednesday 30th November, including this evening.
Quite honestly, I don't see this is any reason why TCP should be closed for us. The walls and floors are made of stone, candles can be used to give light - and would probably be brighter than the normal lighting in the tunnels! The only slight disadvantage that there could possibly be would be the fact that we would have to eat our steaks very rare - or take them home and cook them. Or have steak tartare.

What a bunch of wusses. Bet it was really that they wanted to go on strike to protest about their pension entitlement. Honestly, they should be Clarksoned in front of their families.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 14:48 Fri 02 Dec 2011

AHB wrote:What a bunch of wusses. Bet it was really that they wanted to go on strike to protest about their pension entitlement. Honestly, they should be Clarksoned in front of their families.
The Port Forum Administrators apologise for AHB's gratuitous use of the word Clarksoned in a humorous context. Clearly we do not condone the shooting of lazy, work-shy, "everyone-else-owes-me-a-living" types even when it does interfere with important Port business. We will be speaking to AHB's agent in an attempt to have him issue an equally meaningless and grudged apology in the near future.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11456
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by AHB » 14:54 Fri 02 Dec 2011

Hrumphhh. sorry Lazy, good for nothing, mumble, mumble...
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 15:22 Fri 02 Dec 2011

My favourite article on the subject so far: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 112014617/
Rob C.

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 09:28 Sat 03 Dec 2011

RAYC wrote:Thoughts on Steak Exchange? I still like, it serves good steak
Not the tartare. :-(

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 20:15 Tue 06 Dec 2011

DRT wrote: If I was going out to find a very nice place to eat a very nice steak I would happily choose to pay the £50-60 per head it takes to do that at TSE. But at 200% of the cost of an average night at TCP I do not think that is good value, especially as the steak isn't the reason for being there.
I have been reflecting and do think your criticism of TSE is exaggerating the case slightly:

- Looking back over my receipts, TCP has been coming out recently at £30 - 35, rather than £25-30

- Of the £60 per head bill that we incurred last time at TSE, you must remember that your main course consisted of two pave rump steaks @£17 each (and two of the rest of us had main courses at £30-35+)! Two rump steaks plus a starter and tip at TCP is still a bigger evening than £35.

- looking at TSE's menu, there are plenty of ways to keep costs down broadly to TCP levels (and where one or two want to order more expensive options, a conversation re: bill apportionment can be had).

I agree with the criticism re: atmosphere and kitchen smells, and i'll understand if what you really object to is the need for a tube journey back to the hotel afterwards ( :wink: ), but i must say i would disagree that the difference in price need be any more than £5-10 if the temptation of the wider menu can be resisted!
Rob C.

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 23:19 Tue 06 Dec 2011

I disagree.

The menu at TSE is significantly more expensive than TCP. The £30-35 you mention as the average cost of a night at TCP is probably accurate, but is based on most people having three courses, including the most expensive main course on the menu, and on nights when the £18 for three courses option isn't available. I think I have only ordered three courses at TSE once and have never paid less than £50. The most expensive main course at TSE is £45, with side dishes being at additional cost. The majority of the main courses are in the region of £30-35, making a double-pave not seem so excessive at £34.

The truth of the matter is that when we all get together the last thing any of us is likely to do is to choose to be frugal. When we max out on three courses at TCP it costs about £35. Doing the same thing at TSE would be £60+.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 23:25 Tue 06 Dec 2011

DRT wrote:the last thing any of us is likely to do
There are a lot of candidates. Drink a Malibu & Coke? Seduce the bearded woman? Eat broccoli? (Certain exceptions apply.) Yoga? A colonic cleansing? Fire eating? Important advances in particle physics? Anything tantric? Win a non-physics Nobel Prize? Botany? Recite War & Peace? Write a new and better translation of War & Peace? Obey every law in Leviticus? Support the strikers? Approve of Microsoft’s silly ribbons, or Mac OS Lion’s changing files without the consent of the user? Approve of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers; or of the Bank of England’s implementation of monetary policy? (Version ℵ₃+1,756,000 having been published today.) Decline a pint of good ale?

User avatar
AHB
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1962
Posts: 11456
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by AHB » 11:02 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:Drink a Malibu & Coke? Seduce the bearded woman? Eat broccoli? (Certain exceptions apply.) Yoga? A colonic cleansing? Fire eating? Important advances in particle physics? Anything tantric? Win a non-physics Nobel Prize? Botany? Recite War & Peace? Write a new and better translation of War & Peace? Obey every law in Leviticus? Support the strikers? Approve of Microsoft’s silly ribbons, or Mac OS Lion’s changing files without the consent of the user? Approve of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers; or of the Bank of England’s implementation of monetary policy? (Version ℵ₃+1,756,000 having been published today.) Decline a pint of good ale?
No, I think Derek is much more likely to do any of those things than to be frugal when it comes to eating steak. Only the other day I heard him turn down the offer of a pint of Sovereign Debt.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 11:57 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:or Mac OS Lion’s changing files without the consent of the user?
Some quite excellent rage going on here!
Rob C.

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by RAYC » 12:18 Wed 07 Dec 2011

DRT wrote:I disagree.

The menu at TSE is significantly more expensive than TCP. The £30-35 you mention as the average cost of a night at TCP is probably accurate, but is based on most people having three courses, including the most expensive main course on the menu, and on nights when the £18 for three courses option isn't available. I think I have only ordered three courses at TSE once and have never paid less than £50. The most expensive main course at TSE is £45, with side dishes being at additional cost. The majority of the main courses are in the region of £30-35, making a double-pave not seem so excessive at £34.
I'm going to take you to task on this!

TSE offers 2 courses for £16.95 or 3 courses for £22.50 if you want one of the set menu deals - see here. One of the main options is a 160gr Sirloin with chips.

Assuming you want steak, your sub-£25 options are a 200gr fillet steak for £24.95, a 220gr ribeye for £21.75, a 220gr sirloin for £18.95, or a 200gr Pave rump for £16.95. Your chips or potatoes will add £2.50.

By comparison, the new menu at TCP offers two steaks: a 220gr fillet for £24.75 or a 220gr ribeye for £19.95.

The price of starters is broadly equivalent, as is the price of cheese and dessert.

So there's no reason i can see why an equivalent meal cannot be had at TSE for £5-10 more.
DRT wrote:The truth of the matter is that when we all get together the last thing any of us is likely to do is to choose to be frugal.
I do agree, and the lure of chateaubriand for two is the reason why our meals at TSE have been coming out as more expensive, but this is a different criticism, and is of us, rather than of the restaurant.
Rob C.

Glenn E.
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3349
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by Glenn E. » 20:04 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:Approve of Microsoft’s silly ribbons
I have recently come to understand the ribbon interface, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I now work for Microsoft.

The ribbon interface makes little sense in Word or Excel where, broadly speaking, you're doing one thing when you're using the program. However it really shines when using Microsoft Project 2010 because Project allows project managers to do many different things that are all related to managing projects. Suddenly the ribbon interface not only makes sense, but is extremely useful.

The understanding that I have obtained from Project carries over into Word and Excel, where the interface still seems fundamentally silly. But at least now I understand what it's meant to do and that its apparent silliness comes from the fact that its benefits just aren't necessary in those programs.

Now if only I could convince Microsoft that my office cafeteria's menu should be at least as good as either TCP's or TSE's. Alas, I fear that is not possible.
Glenn Elliott

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 21:48 Wed 07 Dec 2011

RAYC wrote:
DRT wrote:I disagree.

The menu at TSE is significantly more expensive than TCP. The £30-35 you mention as the average cost of a night at TCP is probably accurate, but is based on most people having three courses, including the most expensive main course on the menu, and on nights when the £18 for three courses option isn't available. I think I have only ordered three courses at TSE once and have never paid less than £50. The most expensive main course at TSE is £45, with side dishes being at additional cost. The majority of the main courses are in the region of £30-35, making a double-pave not seem so excessive at £34.
I'm going to take you to task on this!

TSE offers 2 courses for £16.95 or 3 courses for £22.50 if you want one of the set menu deals - see here. One of the main options is a 160gr Sirloin with chips.

Assuming you want steak, your sub-£25 options are a 200gr fillet steak for £24.95, a 220gr ribeye for £21.75, a 220gr sirloin for £18.95, or a 200gr Pave rump for £16.95. Your chips or potatoes will add £2.50.

By comparison, the new menu at TCP offers two steaks: a 220gr fillet for £24.75 or a 220gr ribeye for £19.95.

The price of starters is broadly equivalent, as is the price of cheese and dessert.

So there's no reason i can see why an equivalent meal cannot be had at TSE for £5-10 more.
DRT wrote:The truth of the matter is that when we all get together the last thing any of us is likely to do is to choose to be frugal.
I do agree, and the lure of chateaubriand for two is the reason why our meals at TSE have been coming out as more expensive, but this is a different criticism, and is of us, rather than of the restaurant.
OK. I will concede to all of that.

But the fact remains that my credit card statement says that I spend £30-35 at TCP and £50-60 at TSE. Is my credit card company stealing money from me or is a night at TSE almost twice as expensive than a night at TCP?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 21:54 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:the last thing any of us is likely to do
There are a lot of candidates. Drink a Malibu & Coke? Seduce the bearded woman? Eat broccoli? (Certain exceptions apply.) Yoga? A colonic cleansing? Fire eating? Important advances in particle physics? Anything tantric? Win a non-physics Nobel Prize? Botany? Recite War & Peace? Write a new and better translation of War & Peace? Obey every law in Leviticus? Support the strikers? Approve of Microsoft’s silly ribbons, or Mac OS Lion’s changing files without the consent of the user? Approve of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers; or of the Bank of England’s implementation of monetary policy? (Version ℵ₃+1,756,000 having been published today.) Decline a pint of good ale?
I have done three of these things. If anyone can name all three in a single guess I will order the cheapest steak at TSE the next time we are there.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 22:01 Wed 07 Dec 2011

DRT wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:the last thing any of us is likely to do
There are a lot of candidates. Drink a Malibu & Coke? Seduce the bearded woman? Eat broccoli? (Certain exceptions apply.) Yoga? A colonic cleansing? Fire eating? Important advances in particle physics? Anything tantric? Win a non-physics Nobel Prize? Botany? Recite War & Peace? Write a new and better translation of War & Peace? Obey every law in Leviticus? Support the strikers? Approve of Microsoft’s silly ribbons, or Mac OS Lion’s changing files without the consent of the user? Approve of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers; or of the Bank of England’s implementation of monetary policy? (Version ℵ₃+1,756,000 having been published today.) Decline a pint of good ale?
I have done three of these things. If anyone can name all three in a single guess I will order the cheapest steak at TSE the next time we are there.
• Drink a Malibu & Coke.
• Eat broccoli.
• Decline a pint of good ale.

I note that you have not undertaken to order only one steak, only that one of those you order will be the cheapest.

Glenn E.
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3349
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by Glenn E. » 22:33 Wed 07 Dec 2011

DRT wrote:I have done three of these things. If anyone can name all three in a single guess I will order the cheapest steak at TSE the next time we are there.
You didn't say that our guesses were limited to three items, so my guess is that you have drunk a Malibu & Coke, seduced the bearded woman, eaten broccoli, done Yoga, had a colonic cleansing, eaten fire, done something tantric, done botany, recited War & Peace, written a new and better translation of War & Peace, supported the strikers, approved of Microsoft's silly ribbons, approved of Mac OS Lion's changing files without the consent of the user, approved of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers, approved of the Bank of England's implementation of monetary policy, and declined a pint of good ale.

The astute reader will note that I did not, in fact, include all possibilities. Some of them were just plain silly as pertains to Derek. :wink:

I presume that the cheapest steak at TSE will simply serve as your appetizer, after which you will proceed on to more worthy steaks for dinner.
Glenn Elliott

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 22:53 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:• Drink a Malibu & Coke.
• Eat broccoli.
• Decline a pint of good ale.
I can't believe that you think I would ever have drunk Malibu & Coke. Wrong.
Glenn E. wrote:You didn't say that our guesses were limited to three items, so my guess is that you have drunk a Malibu & Coke, seduced the bearded woman, eaten broccoli, done Yoga, had a colonic cleansing, eaten fire, done something tantric, done botany, recited War & Peace, written a new and better translation of War & Peace, supported the strikers, approved of Microsoft's silly ribbons, approved of Mac OS Lion's changing files without the consent of the user, approved of the auction mechanism used by most sovereign debt managers, approved of the Bank of England's implementation of monetary policy, and declined a pint of good ale.
Ballot paper spoiled and rejected by the returning officer.
jdaw1 wrote:I note that you have not undertaken to order only one steak, only that one of those you order will be the cheapest.
Glenn E. wrote:I presume that the cheapest steak at TSE will simply serve as your appetizer, after which you will proceed on to more worthy steaks for dinner.
It appears that my cunning plan was about as cunning as one of Baldrick's. :roll:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19826
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by jdaw1 » 23:07 Wed 07 Dec 2011

Are we yet off-topic?

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15024
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Wed 30 Nov ’11, Dead Cow & Vintage Port””The Diet of the Gods

Post by DRT » 23:09 Wed 07 Dec 2011

jdaw1 wrote:Are we yet off-topic?
No.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

Post Reply