Samples bottles, round two

[jdaw1]

Split from The Port of Belfast, Tuesday 25th June, 6pm, The Galley by jdaw1.

I presume one can get 6 cl bottles easily in a chemist's..?

My purchase of these was discussed in the thread entitled Small bottles to hold tasting samples, the link to the supplier having changed to www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin13g.html. Shipping was expensive (have you experience of that?), so I took delivery in NY.

As we need more, I have just asked www.logpac.com for pricing.

[djewesbury]

Excellent, count me in for some of these once you have a quote.

[PhilW]

I presume one can get 6 cl bottles easily in a chemist's..?

My purchase of these was discussed in the thread entitled Small bottles to hold tasting samples, the link to the supplier having changed to www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin13g.html. Shipping was expensive (have you experience of that?), so I took delivery in NY.

As we need more, I have just asked www.logpac.com for pricing.

I hope you are more successful than I was when I looked at this towards the end of last year:

I logged on to SKS site to place the order today; I'd decided to order 3 bags of 48 to share amongst those who had expressed interest. Unfortunately, it seems they want to charge $200 for shipping...

The main problem being the cost of delivery, since there were not enough people wanting bottles to make the split delivery cost worthwhile; I would still be keen to get some.

[djewesbury]

But a standard pharmaceutical supplier would have them, surely? Perhaps the healthcare supplies places on Henrietta St / Wigmore St would be a good place to ask? If a member, or even one of the admins, lived in London, he could enquire on a day when he was in that direction.

[jdaw1]

Some research needed first: which shop has what at a good price? That’s an online task, so could be offshored.

[djewesbury]

offshored

I will get 's Chinese data farm onto it....

[djewesbury]

1. Could we move these latest messages into a more relevant thread?
2. The data farm has sent the following links for our consideration; all in the UK:

• 105mm high with plastic cap
• 105mm high with child-proof cap (handy for posting?)
• 105mm high with metal cap
• 66mm high, wide neck, jar

The choice is (y)ours.

[jdaw1]

Could we move these latest messages into a more relevant thread?

Above posts split from The Port of Belfast, Tuesday 25th June, 6pm, The Galley by jdaw1.

[jdaw1]

1. Could we move these latest messages into a more relevant thread?
2. The data farm has sent the following links for our consideration; all in the UK:

• 105mm high with plastic cap
• 105mm high with child-proof cap (handy for posting?)
• 105mm high with metal cap
• 66mm high, wide neck, jar

The choice is (y)ours.

Only the last of those has a wide neck, which makes filling much easier. And recall that filling is typically done late in the evening!

Pricing (presumably ex-VAT):
Qty: 1 at £0.35 ⇒ 35p each;
Qty: 50 at £12.16 ⇒ ≈24.3p each;
Qty: 100 at £20.84 ⇒ 20.84p each;
Qty: 250 at £46.30 ⇒ 18.52p each;
Qty: 770 at £133.71 ⇒ ≈17.4p each.

60ml HDPE jar, semi-transparent plastic (allowing product visibility) with lined screw-top black lid.

Provides excellent storage for powders, tablets, granules, health and beauty, pharmaceutical products and more.

Food grade and pharmaceutical grade approved.

[djewesbury]

Provides excellent storage for powders, tablets, granules, health and beauty, pharmaceutical products and more.

This brings us to the obvious question; is our product primarily a beauty treatment, or do we take it for its renowned health-giving properties?

[DRT]

An observation: There was a time when more than half of the people at any given tasting would turn up with a batch of sample bottles, share some out to those with none, and almost all would take some Port home. More recently I have only seen AHB do this when he needs to leave for an early train. Others tend to use a different method of emptying the glasses before leaving the tasting.

I don't think we need 770 sample bottles.

[jdaw1]

I don't think we need 770 sample bottles.

Nor do I. In the previous purchase I distributed four bags of 48, so 192 bottles, of which only a few bottles remain. Buying something of that order of magnitude seems right, so for this product either 100 or 250. The latter quantity would be ≈£50+delivery, which could be split a few ways. That would give the team another half-decade(ish) of sample bottles.

[jdaw1]

Other possible products:

45ml Hexagonal Jam Jar, comes with brushed silver twist off lid (Rubber lined) locking in freshness and preventing leakage.

A small modern looking jar, perfect for you specialised jams, herb mixes, mustard creations.

Qty: 96 at £30.24
Qty: 234 at £71.60

Small 55ml hexagonal clear glass jar with a silver twist off rubber lined cap.

Ideal for use in cafes or at breakfast tables, perfect for homemade and farm preserves.

Approximate capacity equivalent is 1.9oz. The glass jar is suitable for jam, preserves, pickles, chutneys, nuts, relishes, vinegar and other foods.

Qty: 148 at £45.69

I think I prefer plastic, but am open to persuasion.

[djewesbury]

Glass jars: more expensive, smaller capacity, heavier to post, breakable.

I vote for 250 of the plastic jars.

[jdaw1]

Glass jars: more expensive, smaller capacity, heavier to post, breakable.

I vote for 250 of the plastic jars.

Seconded. Cost to be split a few (⇒ ≥2) ways.

But let’s delay a day or two in case somebody has a better plan.

[djewesbury]

Glass jars: more expensive, smaller capacity, heavier to post, breakable.

I vote for 250 of the plastic jars.

Seconded. Cost to be split a few (⇒ ≥2) ways.

But let’s delay a day or two in case somebody has a better plan.

+1 to all the above.

[jdaw1]

Who else wants more sample bottles? Who’s in?

[PhilW]

I'm in; I've been using glass until now and would much prefer to use plastic providing no taint to the contents. 60ml wide-mouth definitely ideal size; clear would me minor preference to opaque if there is an option.

On previous round of searching I focussed on PET rather than HDPE since (a) it had been used before, and (b) it seems to be more commonly used for water/drinks, while HPDE is used more for shampoo/solvents, so I wasn't certain that HDPE would not affect the taste of the contents, but since 60ml wide-mouth PET seems to be impossible to find in the UK, and the import from SKS is excessive, am happy to give HDPE a try if people believe it should work without imparting taint.

[jdaw1]

if people believe it should work without imparting taint.

I’m relying on the wording on the vendor’s website.

Food grade and pharmaceutical grade approved.

[djewesbury]

I note that it's used for domestic water pipes and is resistant to several solvents. Its high density, rigidity and strength also means it is favoured by pyrotechicians for mortar tubes (Tom?)

[PhilW]

I’m relying on the wording on the vendor’s website.

Food grade and pharmaceutical grade approved.

The manufacturer quote may be necessary, but is it sufficient? (it may well be, I just do not have the knowledge). IIRC, I noted that HDPE was not usable where vacuum seals where required and provided a much lower barrier to moisture and air ingress (the former presumably a consequence of the latter), and that while I could find a statement that alcohol was fine with PET, I found no such statement for HDPE (which does not mean it is not fine, just that I could not verify it); also you had to be careful with the cap seal capability and materials. On the assumption that any port put into the sample bottles is not likely to be held there for long, pharmaceutical grade HDPE may well be fine, but as I could not previously confirm it, I was cautious and continued to look (unsuccessfully) for 60ml wide-mouth PET bottles in the UK (or should have thought to ask ChrisD to order and bring some for us).

[djewesbury]

Its usage for the transport of gases and the construction of chemical barriers suggests good levels of impermeability..

[jdaw1]

Milk jugs and other hollow goods manufactured through blow molding are the most important application area for HDPE ”“ More than 8 million tons, or nearly one third of worldwide production, was applied here.

Unless the regulators have been entirely hoodwinked, that bodes well.

Food Contact Acceptable

[PhilW]

Its usage for the transport of gases and the construction of chemical barriers suggests good levels of impermeability..

True, however almost all the information seems to relate to whether the chemical will damage the barrier over a long period, not whether the barrier may leach into the contents, depending on content type.

Milk jugs and other hollow goods manufactured through blow molding are the most important application area for HDPE ”“ More than 8 million tons, or nearly one third of worldwide production, was applied here.

Unless the regulators have been entirely hoodwinked, that bodes well.

Agree that bodes well providing that ethanol is equally inert to the container as milk.
here and here amongst seem to indicate that ethanol / ethyl alcohol can be safely stored in HDCP (though again this may be more about whether the container degrades over time), plus I note that some suppliers appear to ship alcohol in HDPE drums, which also provides a measure of reassurance, although nothing definitive.

[jdaw1]

I sent a message to Ampulla.co.uk pointing to this thread. Maybe Ampulla.co.uk will have the wit to answer the questions herein. (This was meant as encouragement: just do it. Or reply to my email and I’ll post.)

[Glenn E.]

I have several HDPE water bottles from various runs. I have never noticed a flavor from them, or even a smell for that matter. They seem pretty inert to me.

Still, however, no help regarding alcohol.

#2 (HDPE), #4 (LDPE), and #5 (PP) recycling symbols in the US have been approved as not leaching chemicals into water. #7 (polycarbonate) can leach BPA and should not be used for long-term potable water storage.

[jdaw1]

Very happy to contribute to a resupply order!

[jdaw1]

So I phoned Ampulla, who directed me to www.borealisgroup.com/pdf/chemical-resi ... dpe-ld.pdf. Page 8 of that says that 40% ethanol, in high-density (last two columns), at 20°C, is ‟S”, which the best score, equalling ‟Satisfactory”. At 60° the score was ‟L” = ‟Limited”: it is unclear whether that refers to the evidence or the performance.

Then I spoke to one of Ampulla’s technical people, who said that ‟Angus Distillers ship vodka and whisky all over the world in HDPE”. Which is good enough for me. (Is the modern Shipper’s Pipe really made of plastic? Sigh.)

[djewesbury]

I see interest from: DRT, JDAW, PW, BMHR, and me. JDAW asks (by PM) whether I wish to request a proportion of the order that represents the future port-drinking potential of the island of Ireland; but the most obvious distribution, currently, is 50 each. Does anybody require more, or fewer, than this?

[jdaw1]

I see interest from: DRT

There might be such interest, but it wasn’t clearly expressed.

Does anybody require more, or fewer, than this?

I’m confident that most of the people in your list want ‘some’, probably defined to mean ‟ideally at least a dozen, but not lots, subject to which whatever is easiest for the organiser”. So whether the All-Ireland Co-ordinator wants his ‘share’ of 50, or wants >50 but ≤190, the others would split the rest.

How many do you want? Are you buying for yourself, or for your current and future Ireland port chums?

Failing cogent objection, I’ll order tonight.

[djewesbury]

I'll take 100 if that doesn't inconvenience anybody else.

[jdaw1]

So the current score is 100 for DJ; 50 for each of BMHW PW JDAW.

I'll take 100 if that doesn't inconvenience anybody else.

It won’t. Others will want a dozen to a score, but will take more as part of a team effort. Indeed, if any are feeling robbed of their ‘share’ of 62½, thirteen can be transferred from me.

[DRT]

I see interest from: DRT

There might be such interest, but it wasn’t clearly expressed.

I have around three dozen of the originals that are rarely used. But I am happy to take a share of the 150 destined for Britain if it softens the blow on team finances.

[jdaw1]

I have around three dozen of the originals that are rarely used. But I am happy to take a share of the 150 destined for Britain if it softens the blow on team finances.

The blow is very small. Your need is very small. You’re out.

[jdaw1]

Ordered, for £53.89 including delivery. Will come within a week.

[PhilW]

Thank you, 50 is good.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Drat. I've only just read this thread. I could have done with a dozen or two. My supply of the old style bottles is dwindling slowly as I "lend" them to others on occasion but rarely have them returned.

Never mind. If there are any spare I will take some, otherwise I will just have to use Ben's breast milk bags when I finally run out of sample bottles.

[djewesbury]

Alex, I'm happy to relinquish some of Ireland's birthright in this instance..! Would 25 do you?

[Alex Bridgeman]

Alex, I'm happy to relinquish some of Ireland's birthright in this instance..! Would 25 do you?

25 would be more than adequate. Thank you.

[jdaw1]

Daniel: have the 100 you requested. Alex: 25+ available, no problem.

[jdaw1]

They have arrived. How many do people want?
• 100 for Daniel;
• 25 for Alex;
• 25 for Ben [added after later post];
• 50 for Phil [added after later post];
• leftovers for me, however many that is [seemingly 50, or maybe 41].

Phil and Ben: forty? Fewer? Fifty? More? [Edited as question answered.]

Anybody else want ‘a few’?

[jdaw1]

They have arrived.

‟They” = 241 bottles and 93 lids. I phoned and Ampulla knew that lids were missing. More coming, apparently.

[benread]

They have arrived. How many do people want?
• 100 for Daniel;
• 25 for Alex;
• leftovers for me, however many that is.

Phil and Ben: forty? Fewer? Fifty? More?

Anybody else want ‘a few’?

25 would be plenty for me, but let me know what my fair share of £'s is and if that equates to a few more than 25 then I am happy to take and store them for team use, or let another deserving soul have a few extra.

[PhilW]

They have arrived. How many do people want?
Phil and Ben: forty? Fewer? Fifty? More?

So the current score is 100 for DJ; 50 for each of BMHW PW JDAW.

Thank you, 50 is good.

[jdaw1]

FYI, the new pots are slightly smaller than the old. The old pots have a protruding ridge, just beneath the thread than holds on the lid. New pot to the brim is the same volume as up to the protruding ridge on an old pot.

Rephrased, new’s brimful = old’s just into neck.

[jdaw1]

More lids arrived, and screwed on to the 241 pots I am Mr Bucket.

Yes, there are twelve spare lids.

To be allocated:
• 100 for Daniel (plus 5 spare lids);
• 25 for Alex (plus 1 spare lid);
• 25 for Ben (plus 1 spare lid);
• 50 for Phil (plus 3 spare lids);
• 41 for Julian (plus 2 spare lids).

[PhilW]

As mentioned here, some of us need some more bottles (ideally in time for distribution/use on Wednesday next week if that were possible, though this looks unlikely currently). A search for current suppliers has come up with the following:

Requirement:
Material: PET preferred, HDPE acceptable
Size: 50-60ml preferred, 50-80ml acceptable
Neck: Wide neck required

(a) PET, 75ml (€0.70/bottle incl vat & shipping for 100 quantity) here

(b) HDPE, 60ml (£9.55/10 inc vat, plus delivery – except I could collect, if they have them at their head office) here

(c) HDPE, 60ml (£110/48, shipped from US [long]) here

(d) HDPE, 60ml (<£0.30/bottle ex-vat and delivery) here

It is believed that (d) was purchased last time. None of the bottles listed appear to be supplied pre-sterilised as far as I can tell, though they are all pharmaceutical-grade. Of these (b) and (c) seem too expensive by comparison to the other options, leaving (a) (slightly larger but PET) vs (d) (better size but HDPE); I would be happy with either (personally minor preference for the PET bottles, perhaps, despite the slightly larger size).

Two questions for all, therefore:
(i) Does anyone know of other sources which should be considered? (if so please post links)
(ii) If an order for bottles were to be placed tomorrow (though with no guarantee of delivery prior to Wednesday's tasting), would anyone want some and if so how many? (please post quantity wanted; I would take 50-100)

[CPR 1]

Phil

If you place an order I am up for 25 - 50 please

[jdaw1]

Last time we paid £53.89 for 241 of them, from www.ampulla.co.uk. If you buy a similar quantity they will be distributed quite easily.

[flash_uk]

I'll take 50 please. Slight preference for d, on the basis that the dimensions are more suitable for packing 14 in a wooden wine box.