60 vs 63
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: 60 vs 63
Have now taken delivery of some brand new wine bottles to serve as identical decanters - so no guessing from bottle shapes or remains of capsules!
The plan is to decant into the bottles as pairs with cardboard labels taped to each pair. On the underside of each label will be the vintage. Someone who does not know which pair is which will then bag them up, marking each pair as 'A', 'B' and 'C' etc, in no particular order.
Bottles (except the Niepoorts) will be delivered to Rob's tomorrow morning.
I'm thinking about eight pairs now rather than ten, which I propose to be:
Dow
Fonseca
Graham
Niepoort
Noval
Sandeman
Taylor
Warre
If anyone feels strongly that Cockburn, Croft, Martinez or Offley should displace any of the above, please shout now!
I will update the attendance list presently..
The plan is to decant into the bottles as pairs with cardboard labels taped to each pair. On the underside of each label will be the vintage. Someone who does not know which pair is which will then bag them up, marking each pair as 'A', 'B' and 'C' etc, in no particular order.
Bottles (except the Niepoorts) will be delivered to Rob's tomorrow morning.
I'm thinking about eight pairs now rather than ten, which I propose to be:
Dow
Fonseca
Graham
Niepoort
Noval
Sandeman
Taylor
Warre
If anyone feels strongly that Cockburn, Croft, Martinez or Offley should displace any of the above, please shout now!
I will update the attendance list presently..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: 60 vs 63
I’ll make placemats soon.
Tom: please may I edit the first post to add the placemats to it?
Tom: please may I edit the first post to add the placemats to it?
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: 60 vs 63
SureTom: please may I edit the first post to add the placemats to it?
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: 60 vs 63
Tom,
Not sure if there is room left at the table with the withdrawals, but if there is I would love to join this tasting as I seem to be at a lose end in London that night!
Thanks
Not sure if there is room left at the table with the withdrawals, but if there is I would love to join this tasting as I seem to be at a lose end in London that night!
Thanks
Re: 60 vs 63
• Please confirm shippers and ordering thereof.In the first post jdaw1 wrote:Current draft of the placemats.
• Who? People?
• Please inspect carefully (carefully!) to verify everything.
- SushiNorth
- Martinez 1985
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Re: 60 vs 63
Just checking in -- any room left at this one, or can I be added to the waiting list?SushiNorth wrote:Still room for one more? I'm now trying to make sense of the tastings occurring in London during this time period.
Re: 60 vs 63
Tom is AWOL. When he returns, I expect that he will say that there is room.SushiNorth wrote:Just checking in -- any room left at this one, or can I be added to the waiting list?
Re: 60 vs 63
Shippers should be A1, A2, B1, B2 etc. x 8 pairs. See Tom's earlier post upthread.jdaw1 wrote:Please confirm shippers and ordering thereof.
• Who? People?
• Please inspect carefully (carefully!) to verify everything.
Not sure about people - in Tom's court - but could be:
1. EDN
2. THRA
3. THRA + 1 [RLC?]
4. RAYC
5. RAYC+1
6. [AP]
7. AP+1 (Wolfgang, but not WS1)
8. Flash_UK?
9. CPR
10. SushiNorth
But there are various other people in the mix as well.
Am happy to take over placemats - since you are not attending, it seems slightly beyond the course of duty to have to do them!
Rob C.
Re: 60 vs 63
Oops. Sorry.RAYC wrote:Shippers should be A1, A2, B1, B2 etc. x 8 pairs. See Tom's earlier post upthread.
What does “Blind pairs” mean? Possibilities:uncle tom wrote:- Blind pairs of the ten principal houses - Cockburn, Croft, Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Niepoort, Noval, Sandeman, Taylor & Warre.
• Pairs identified as pairs, but without further information?
• Shippers given, but one-bit decision left blind — which is the ’60 and which is the ’63?
• Years given, but shipper blind?
• Other?
Other people do lots of things for tastings, such as owning and bringing old bottles. This is my regular contribution, and I’m happy to do it. Also, blind-to-everybody tasting have placemats that are complicated to make, and my making them helps me see how to make the making of them less complicated.RAYC wrote:Am happy to take over placemats - since you are not attending, it seems slightly beyond the course of duty to have to do them!
Re: 60 vs 63
This one, i believe, save that we have additional information through knowing the universe of pairs.jdaw1 wrote:What does “Blind pairs” mean? Possibilities:
• Pairs identified as pairs, but without further information?
Rob C.
Re: 60 vs 63
I was pondering a week or so ago how this could be accomplished using a system and something printed with the placemats. This is where I got to:jdaw1 wrote:Also, blind-to-everybody tasting have placemats that are complicated to make, and my making them helps me see how to make the making of them less complicated.
- the placemats include two pages with lines numbered 1 to 20, or however many bottles there are
- the placemats also include labels for 1 to 20 and A to T
- one person sits with the decanted bottles,hangs 1 to 20 labels on them, and records on one of the numbered pages which shipper is each number. This page is then folded neatly and kept in a safe place only to be referred to at the end
- first person makes sure no way of identifying shipper from bottle/decanter
- second person arrives, and ushers first person away
- second person puts labels A to T next to bottles/decanters in random fashion, then notes which number (1 to 20) is paired with which letter, writing these pairings on the second numbered page. This page is also safely tucked away.
- second person removes all the numbered labels from the bottles/decanters leaving only letters on the bottles/decanters
Now first person can only see letters on bottles/decanters and cannot identify a shipper. Second person only knows letter-number pairs so cannot identify a shipper. Only when both numbered pages are put together can letters be traced to shippers.
Re: 60 vs 63
Let me help by describing previous practice. There are two sets of decanter labels. Pre-threaded decanted labels say “Dow 1960”, and the like. Things are decanted.
Then Helen (Bung Hole manager) comes in. She takes the second set of decanter labels, and staples onto the first the likes of “A1” and “A2”, in pairs. The team returns, pre-pours and distributes. At the end the second set of labels is torn off, and all is thereby revealed.
Though I don’t like calling them “A1” and “A2”. I’m considering “a” and “a”, with sub-titles “Roman” and “Italic”.
Then Helen (Bung Hole manager) comes in. She takes the second set of decanter labels, and staples onto the first the likes of “A1” and “A2”, in pairs. The team returns, pre-pours and distributes. At the end the second set of labels is torn off, and all is thereby revealed.
Though I don’t like calling them “A1” and “A2”. I’m considering “a” and “a”, with sub-titles “Roman” and “Italic”.
This decryption might be beyond our end-evening talents.flash_uk wrote:Now first person can only see letters on bottles/decanters and cannot identify a shipper. Second person only knows letter-number pairs so cannot identify a shipper. Only when both numbered pages are put together can letters be traced to shippers.
- SushiNorth
- Martinez 1985
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Re: 60 vs 63
Regarding Blinds:
Allow me to suggest a different option. Each bottle is decanted into a similar looking decanter/decantBottle, and the original bottle and decanted port are kept together. My nephalist wife then comes by, places random greek letters on the decanters, and records which port goes to which letter. She joins us for dinner, stays mum about which is which, and reveals the mapping when we are ready.
Allow me to suggest a different option. Each bottle is decanted into a similar looking decanter/decantBottle, and the original bottle and decanted port are kept together. My nephalist wife then comes by, places random greek letters on the decanters, and records which port goes to which letter. She joins us for dinner, stays mum about which is which, and reveals the mapping when we are ready.
Re: 60 vs 63
that will certainly work for this tasting. If Julian is trying to adapt the placemat software for a more general solution to blind for everyone, it could prove expensive for the solution to require your wife to fly in each timeSushiNorth wrote:Regarding Blinds:
Allow me to suggest a different option. Each bottle is decanted into a similar looking decanter/decantBottle, and the original bottle and decanted port are kept together. My nephalist wife then comes by, places random greek letters on the decanters, and records which port goes to which letter. She joins us for dinner, stays mum about which is which, and reveals the mapping when we are ready.
Re: 60 vs 63
Because this requires that your wife not make an error, and everybody believing that. Whereas over-stapling does not require belief in anybody’s competence — even if people are indeed competent.SushiNorth wrote:Regarding Blinds:
Allow me to suggest a different option. Each bottle is decanted into a similar looking decanter/decantBottle, and the original bottle and decanted port are kept together. My nephalist wife then comes by, places random greek letters on the decanters, and records which port goes to which letter. She joins us for dinner, stays mum about which is which, and reveals the mapping when we are ready.
Re: 60 vs 63
Axel, Dirk, Tom and I are doing the decanting at my flat - Tom has sourced generic clean wine bottles and we have adequate bodies to ensure that port ends up in pairs that are blind to everyone but which have a safe audit trail to ensure identification at the end. So no need to worry!
Rob C.
Re: 60 vs 63
So it suffices to have just the following set of labels?RAYC wrote:Axel, Dirk, Tom and I are doing the decanting at my flat - Tom has sourced generic clean wine bottles and we have adequate bodies to ensure that port ends up in pairs that are blind to everyone but which have a safe audit trail to ensure identification at the end. So no need to worry!
jdaw1 wrote:I’m considering “a” and “a”, with sub-titles “Roman” and “Italic”.
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
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Re: 60 vs 63
That sounds rather a dangerous group of people to be trusted with large numbers of tasty bottles of port!RAYC wrote:Axel, Dirk, Tom and I are doing the decanting at my flat - Tom has sourced generic clean wine bottles and we have adequate bodies to ensure that port ends up in pairs that are blind to everyone but which have a safe audit trail to ensure identification at the end. So no need to worry!
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: 60 vs 63
Updated placemats, the first post having pictures. There are D60 D63 … decanter labels, the thinking being that these go on the decanters. Stapled over them are the a Roman, a Italic, b Roman, b Italic, … decanter labels. All the glasses and TNs are in the latter format.
There are too few people on the placemats. Who is coming?
There are too few people on the placemats. Who is coming?
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
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Re: 60 vs 63
I've lost track.. Are all of them going to be blind once they've finished the 'decanting'?AHB wrote:That sounds rather a dangerous group of people to be trusted with large numbers of tasty bottles of port!RAYC wrote:Axel, Dirk, Tom and I are doing the decanting at my flat - Tom has sourced generic clean wine bottles and we have adequate bodies to ensure that port ends up in pairs that are blind to everyone but which have a safe audit trail to ensure identification at the end. So no need to worry!
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: 60 vs 63
Yes. Two of them decant into decanters labelled D60, D63, etc. They staple a blank card over the D60, and shuffle the decanters. Switch teams, and staple over those blank cards the labels of the form g Italic. Result: all blind. But later, tearing off the stapled over-labels will reveal truth.djewesbury wrote:Are all of them going to be blind once they've finished the 'decanting'?
- djewesbury
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Re: 60 vs 63
You misread. The subject of my sentence was not the bottles.jdaw1 wrote:Yes. Two of them decant into decanters labelled D60, D63, etc. They staple a blank card over the D60, and shuffle the decanters. Switch teams, and staple over those blank cards the labels of the form g Italic. Result: all blind. But later, tearing off the stapled over-labels will reveal truth.djewesbury wrote:Are all of them going to be blind once they've finished the 'decanting'?
Hence my quoting Alex's post.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: 60 vs 63
Sorry to have gone a bit quiet - opening attendance list now updated
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- SushiNorth
- Martinez 1985
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- Joined: 07:45 Mon 18 Feb 2008
- Location: NJ & NY
Re: 60 vs 63
Thanks -- 2 logisitics items:
1) May I add a non-drinker to join us? (otherwise I'm leaving my wife alone, and I'd prefer to bring her along).
2) How are bottles being sorted out? Is there a flat cost for the wine per drinker for the evening (and could someone let me know what it is) so that I come prepared?
1) May I add a non-drinker to join us? (otherwise I'm leaving my wife alone, and I'd prefer to bring her along).
2) How are bottles being sorted out? Is there a flat cost for the wine per drinker for the evening (and could someone let me know what it is) so that I come prepared?