1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

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flash_uk
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1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

Post by flash_uk » 23:50 Sun 03 Nov 2013

This thread was started by DRT. But DRT has asked flash_uk to take over the planning and arrangement of this tasting. So authorship of the first post has been changed by jdaw1 to allow the new organiser to edit the first post. Yes, the date of this first post is before the date of flash_uk joining ThePortForum.

1997 was widely declared and has now reached an age where it would traditionally have been considered old enough to drink. We do not have much experience of this vintage here but I suspect many of us have cases from various shippers and have no idea how they are maturing. Should we do the Port world a service and taste a representative selection from this vintage?

--------------------end of original post------------------

Date: Monday 16 June 2014
Place: The Bung Hole at 57 High Holborn, London WC1V 6DT, +44 20 7831 8365 (streetmap.co.uk, maps.google.co.uk, bing.com).

Attendees confirmed:
  1. MPM — Cockburn, Gould Campbell, Infantado, Morgan, Smith Woodhouse, Warre;
  2. JDAW — Offley, Sandeman, Sandeman Vau Double Magnum, Sandeman Vau Single;
  3. AWGH = Anthony Habert of Stevens Garnier;
  4. DJ;
  5. IJ (DJ Snr);
  6. THRA — Vesuvio & Croft Roeda;
  7. CPR1 — Graham;
  8. IDJ — Dow, Ferreira & Ramos Pinto;
  9. CMAG — Noval;
  10. AHB — Martinez;
  11. DaveRL — Fonseca & Taylor;
  12. RDA (cedars28).
Waiting list:
  1. AA (RDA Snr).
Ports likely to be present:
  1. Cockburn — MPM;
  2. Croft Roeda — THRA;
  3. Dow — IDJ;
  4. Ferreira — IDJ;
  5. Fonseca — DaveRL;
  6. Gould Campbell — MPM;
  7. Graham — CPR1;
  8. Quinta do Infantado — MPM;
  9. Martinez — AHB;
  10. Morgan — MPM;
  11. Quinta do Noval — CMAG;
  12. Offley — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  13. Quinta do Passadouro — Kindly donated by VintageWineAndPort.co.uk;
  14. Ramos Pinto — IDJ;
  15. Sandeman — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  16. Sandeman Vau, Double Magnum — JDAW;
  17. Sandeman Vau, Single — JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
  18. Smith Woodhouse — MPM;
  19. Taylor — DaveRL;
  20. Quinta do Vesuvio — THRA;
  21. Warre — MPM


Current draft of the placemats.
Image Image
Last edited by flash_uk on 14:21 Mon 09 Jun 2014, edited 46 times in total.

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jdaw1
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by jdaw1 » 01:19 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Please include me.

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djewesbury
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by djewesbury » 01:47 Mon 04 Nov 2013

I misread this as 1977 initially and was confused. I'd happily take part if I can.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by Andy Velebil » 05:40 Mon 04 Nov 2013

If not in a hurry. Would like to join in this tasting. At some point in 2014 I'll be back in the UK.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by TLW » 05:56 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Just tried a 1997 Graham, and it is definitely nowhere near ready. That being said, if I am in London at the time you hold the tasting, will happily contribute a bottle or three from the major houses.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 07:59 Mon 04 Nov 2013

OK - we have enough interest so I have updated the first post.

I only have the Roeda to hand and do not intend removing cases from storage for this so might pick up some others over the next few months.

Please declare what you have.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by Cookie » 15:18 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Include me please...I have Fonseca and Barros.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by djewesbury » 15:22 Mon 04 Nov 2013

DRT wrote:might pick up some others over the next few months.
If it's generally thought that this is OK for such a young tasting then I will probably do likewise. Will advise.
Daniel J.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 15:39 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Cookie wrote:Include me please...I have Fonseca and Barros.
Done.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 15:40 Mon 04 Nov 2013

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:might pick up some others over the next few months.
If it's generally thought that this is OK for such a young tasting then I will probably do likewise. Will advise.
Good boy.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by CPR 1 » 16:15 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Count me in please (dates permitting) - I will bring a bottle of Graham

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 16:54 Mon 04 Nov 2013

CPR 1 wrote:Count me in please (dates permitting) - I will bring a bottle of Graham
First post updated.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by AHB » 19:34 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Depending on when, count me in too - even if only so I can sit in the corner and lecture everyone at the pointlessness of trying to drink Vintage Port at under 21 years of age (new release port excluded). I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by djewesbury » 19:37 Mon 04 Nov 2013

AHB wrote:Depending on when, count me in too - even if only so I can sit ion the corner and lecture everyone at the pointlessness of trying to drink Vintage Port at under 21 years of age (new release port excluded). I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.
Perhaps the thing about 97 will be that it's maturing early. Maybe we'll have to drink up soon..? Worth checking. Just to be on the safe side.
Daniel J.
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by RAYC » 19:47 Mon 04 Nov 2013

I'm in the AHB camp!

Ramos Pinto was very nice earlier this year and - of the usual big established names - the best "current drinker" from the vintage that i have had (albeit i have not yet had Noval 97). Sandeman 97 was also drinking nicely at BFT 2012, and Taylor 97 surprisingly approachable at BBR Walkaround 2011.

I've made my way through most of these over the last couple of years and don't have a burning desire to repeat, so will leave places at this tasting for others to use. However, happy to join in nearer the time if there's still space and extra people are wanted to enable a broader selection.
Rob C.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by idj123 » 21:55 Mon 04 Nov 2013

Please include me-I can put up Dow,Ferreira and QdV

Ian

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 22:51 Mon 04 Nov 2013

AHB wrote:I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.
You have described the point of this tasting perfectly. There is nothing to be gained in leaving this or any other vintage to sail past its prime drinking window. Periodic evaluation allows as to identify shippers that should be drunk-up sooner rather than later and those who should be left to sleep for a decade or more.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 22:53 Mon 04 Nov 2013

RAYC wrote:I'm in the AHB camp!
Excellent. That means that, like AHB, you completely understand the point of doing this. 88)
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by TLW » 00:12 Tue 05 Nov 2013

If able to attend, I can bring any of Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Niepoort, Taylor, or Warre. Could also bring a 1996 Guimarens for comparison.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by AHB » 09:23 Tue 05 Nov 2013

I don't have much 1997 on hand - most of it being in storage until its 21st birthday, of course.

What I do have is Martinez, Vesuvio and Warre. (I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by jdaw1 » 10:47 Tue 05 Nov 2013

AHB wrote:(I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)
I have two of the ’97 Vau double magnums to hand, which were at risk of being drunk at Christmas. Derek: if one is wanted for this tasting, speak soon. There could be decanting variations.

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Axel P
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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by Axel P » 12:29 Tue 05 Nov 2013

My suggestion would be to compare 94 and 97. Dont you think that this might make sense? As the 94s turn 20years next year. Since they are not too expensive even a comparateable tasting should be somewhat reasoneable.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by Andy Velebil » 14:32 Tue 05 Nov 2013

I have a variety of 1997's in the cellar to add to this tasting.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by jdaw1 » 17:20 Tue 05 Nov 2013

Axel P wrote:My suggestion would be to compare 94 and 97. Dont you think that this might make sense? As the 94s turn 20years next year. Since they are not too expensive even a comparateable tasting should be somewhat reasoneable.
Part of DRT’s stated purpose is to test which shippers, perhaps minor shippers, need to be drunk soon, and which shippers need patience. Including the minor shippers means this event might have 20+ bottles. Doubling that to include the ’94s might be, well, fabulous, but also hard work.

If that is correct DRT to comment then this should be just ’97s. I like the idea of 1994-versus-1997, but on a different day.

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Re: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

Post by DRT » 23:56 Tue 05 Nov 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
AHB wrote:(I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big.)
I have two of the ’97 Vau double magnums to hand, which were at risk of being drunk at Christmas. Derek: if one is wanted for this tasting, speak soon. There could be decanting variations.
Yes, please. One decanted into various bottle sizes using various methods of filtration and one decanted into various bottle sizes Audouze.
AHB wrote:I also have Sandeman Vau, but that bottle is too big
No, it isn't. Please decant freehand into a single container.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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