ThePortForum.com

Sometimes I see a flavour of this.
Notably ...

The Sandeman web site wrote: "Sandeman Porto Vau Vintage 2003 is a Vintage Porto of exceptional quality and modern style that may be enjoyed while still young or after ageing...".

Ditto for the 1999.
For some reason there's nothing on the 2011 Vau, but my understanding is that it has the same aim.

I've done quite a bit of searching, but have, as yet, been unable to find out exactly what they do differently, or what is different, such that these wines "... may be enjoyed while still young".

I'm betting someone here (quite possibly everyone here) will be able to enlighten me, for which I thank them in advance.

Not quite answering the question, but nonetheless you might want to know that SV97 in half-bottle is way over the hill, but in double-magnum is still drinking nicely.

jdaw1 wrote:Not quite answering the question, but nonetheless you might want to know that SV97 in half-bottle is way over the hill, but in double-magnum is still drinking nicely.

So perhaps these wines spent a couple of years in itsy-bitsy-baby-sized bottles not unlike those one finds in hotel rooms before being put in "proper" bottles?

WineLoverPT wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:Not quite answering the question, but nonetheless you might want to know that SV97 in half-bottle is way over the hill, but in double-magnum is still drinking nicely.

So perhaps these wines spent a couple of years in itsy-bitsy-baby-sized bottles not unlike those one finds in hotel rooms before being put in "proper" bottles?

Hmm. That would be one way of doing it...
I think it's all just in the balance of grapes used in the blend. Fiercely tannic varieties (maybe Touriga Nacional or Tinta Cão) that would give great longevity but which make the wine inaccessible in the short term are not required, whereas more floral varieties (perhaps including Tinta Barroca?) are attractive immediately the wine is released. Of course, you want some tannin so it's once again a question of the blender and the grower knowing their vineyards, and their lotes, and thinking which will make the most attractive, fruit-forward blend early on.

djewesbury wrote: I think it's all just in the balance of grapes used in the blend. Fiercely tannic varieties (maybe Touriga Nacional or Tinta Cão) that would give great longevity but which make the wine inaccessible in the short term are not required, whereas more floral varieties (perhaps including Tinta Barroca?) are attractive immediately the wine is released. Of course, you want some tannin so it's once again a question of the blender and the grower knowing their vineyards, and their lotes, and thinking which will make the most attractive, fruit-forward blend early on.

OK.
That makes sense - the art of the blender.
So I went back to Sandeman and got hold of the datasheets...

1999 Vau: Tinta Roriz, Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca
2003 Vau: Tinta Roriz, Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca
2011 Vintage: 40% T. Franca, 40% T. Nacional, 10% Tinta Roriz, 5% Tinto Cão, 5% Sousão
(only these had caste composition)

Attempting to apply logic, that would seem to imply the "early bird" in the mix is the Tinta Roriz - almost implying this is a "Rioja Port"?

From notes that I copied down from somewhere or other on the web for a talk I gave:

"The Tinta Roriz represents the largest proportion of new plantings after the Touriga Francesa. Its large berries and big bunches produce relatively high yields and the variety gives its best results in dry years. It produces well structured, aromatic wines developing great elegance and complexity with age, often developing distinctive ‘resiny’ fragrances."

The blend surprises me a little. I would expect then that Vau is a wine that can stand ageing; but not if in JDAW's house.

djewesbury wrote:From notes that I copied down from somewhere or other on the web for a talk I gave:

"The Tinta Roriz represents the largest proportion of new plantings after the Touriga Francesa. Its large berries and big bunches produce relatively high yields and the variety gives its best results in dry years. It produces well structured, aromatic wines developing great elegance and complexity with age, often developing distinctive ‘resiny’ fragrances."

It appears to be from the Taylor's web site, here...
http://www.taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wi ... varieties/

The plot thickens...

Edit: I have written to Sandeman, asking them if they'd like to provide any insight, as I am wont to do.

djewesbury wrote:The blend surprises me a little. I would expect then that Vau is a wine that can stand ageing; but not if in JDAW's house.

Very few wines age well in JDAW's house. Most Hutchesons and Royal Oportos, plus just about anything from the 1975 vintage.

Tinta Roriz is elsewhere known as Tempranillo. It's very age-worthy, so I agree that the blends do not seem to indicate a preference for "non-sturdy" grapes. In fact it seems to me that Tinta Roriz, Touriga Nacional, and Touriga Franca could easily be the base grapes for just about any Port good Port. That's the trifecta, essentially.

I too would have thought that it's in the mix of grape varieties. But as you mentioned above, that's the same as with long-lived port.
Perhaps it has something to to with the robotic lagares they use for the Vau. Perhaps by not using foot-treading the tannins are not that much extracted from the juice and thus the wine is not that tannic from the start?

AW77 wrote:I too would have thought that it's in the mix of grape varieties. But as you mentioned above, that's the same as with long-lived port.
Perhaps it has something to to with the robotic lagares they use for the Vau. Perhaps by not using foot-treading the tannins are not that much extracted from the juice and thus the wine is not that tannic from the start?

Yes, I think you're onto something there. That makes much more sense.

A decade ago the producers were queuing up to sing the virtues of drinking vintage port young.

- They've mostly gone very quiet on that front of late..

I hope ageing potential isn't compromised in the goal of producing port that drinks moderately well young.

I hope ageing potential isn't compromised in the goal of producing port that drinks moderately well young.

It's an issue..

Some writers judge new vintage ports as immediate drinking prospects, and don't understand or credit the characteristics that make for great aging potential.

It gives the producers a dilemma. While publicly they mostly maintain that they can produce vintage ports that will delight in both the near and long term, I fear a number will not show as well in old age as they might have done.

uncle tom wrote:...I fear a number will not show as well in old age as they might have done.

I think that depends on what you mean by "old age". From what I have read, the 1963 vintage port was a real fruit bomb in it's first few years in bottle and drank very nicely. So were the 1994's. Eventually both shut down and lost that overt, lush fruitiness. While the 1963s recovered in the mid-'80s my personal view is that we are still waiting for the 1994's to get their act together.

On the other hand I read that the 1966s were brutal and tannic when first bottled and no-one in their right mind opened and drank them young. The chances are that the 1966s will outlive the 1963s but when I think of a wine in its "old age" I am thinking 30-50 years rather than longer. If today's fruit bombs follow the path of the 1963 then I will be very happy and will feel that today's winemakers have done a good job.

Alex
I recall being told the 1966's were considered not so great when young and a "peasant" vintage. That is, no one bought them so they ended up being sold for cheap and a lot of it was drunk young. Possibly one reason why they are so hard to find now days.


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I think that depends on what you mean by "old age"

I reckon English cellared vintage port reaches peak maturity, on average, at around 45 years.

I take 'old age' to mean anything in excess of that.

After carefully explaining my question, "The Don" at Sandeman replied with this explanation...

"As you might know we can divide demarcated Douro region in three subregions: Baixo Corgo, Cima Corgo and Douro Superior – as you can see on the image below.
They produced different types of wines because of the different soil and climate variation. So, for Vau Vintage we used about 20% of wines produced in Douro Superior and those wines are smother and “balanced” than the ones produced in Cima Corgo, the reason why you may drink them earlier."



I applaud Sandeman for replying at all.
And I give them an encore for answering the question.

I have tasted very little young port, but I cannot say that I have noted very much difference in them. Like babies I suppose, they have to grow up a bit before their individuality expresses itself. In this sense I'm not sure that vintage port made to be drunk young seems a very coherent idea.

I can understand a producer making a port you want to get on with drinking, but doubt if they are premium products which the Vau is marketed as. I wonder if they will age well. I'm not surprised that the halves are a bit old, small bottles always act oddly, has anyone drunk a normal sized bottle recently?

Back to Alex's point about the perception of older vintages from the sixties, I remember when the 1970 was seen as very low brow, drink it up because its cheap was the message and look at them now. I wonder if the ports from the eighties will go through this same revisionist phase?