Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Anything to do with Port.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

The Oxford & Cambridge Club have updated their Port list. It now offers
  • Graham 2011 LBV
  • Taylor 10yo Tawny
  • Graham 1997 @ £62
  • Taylor 1997 @ £63
  • Fonseca 1985 @ £62
  • Taylor 1985 @ £70
  • Graham 1972 colheita (only by the glass from a 4.5 litre bottle
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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RonnieRoots
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by RonnieRoots »

AHB wrote: 20:33 Thu 29 Mar 2018 But I think the award for London’s most impressive vintage port list has got to go to Bar Douro, which offers:
Churchill Ruby Reserve @ £34
Churchill White Port (50cl) @ £40 - this is basically a 10YO white
Churchill 10YO Tawny (50cl) @ £45
Churchill 2011 LBV @ £46
Churchill 20YO Tawny (50cl) @ £62
Churchill Quinta da Gricha 2012 @ £86
Churchill 1997 @ £105
Morgan 1991 @ £115
Fonseca Guimaraens 1988 @ £185
Dow 1985 @ £155
Noval 1982 @ £145
Warre 1975 @ £140
Fonseca 1970 @ £300
Warre 1970 @ £210
Gould Campbell 1966 @ £250
Taylor 1966 @ £275
Taylor 1963 @ £310
Gonzalez Byass 1955 @ £380

Has anyone seen a better list in London?
Had a lovely lunch there last week, a real gem of a place with a very good selection of wines by the glass as well.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Last week I had the chance to visit three different hotels / restaurants in Devon and Cornwall.

Gidleigh Park has a magnificent wine list but a very uninspiring offering of Port - this consisting of:
  • Alves de Sousa Caldas Branco @ £9 / 50ml
  • Barros LBV 2013 @ £10 or £75 for the bottle
  • Quinta de Roriz 2004 @ £150 for the bottle
  • Barros Colheita 1978 @ £18 or £195
  • Barros 10YO Tawny @ £138 for the bottle
  • Quinta da Gaivosa 20YO Tawny @ £19

Bin Two in Padstow is a bottle shop with a drink-in option (for a £10 surcharge on the take-away price). I don’t remember the entire Port offering because I was so taken by the bottle of Le Haut-Lieu Moelleux 1993 that we bought and drank. I do remember Fonseca 2004 and Krohn 1977 colheita and there were 2 or 3 other bottles of younger wines, one of which was an LBV.

Finally The Sea Kitchen, the restaurant at the Hannafore Point Hotel in West Looe, has Cockburn Special Reserve and Bulas 2013 LBV on the wine list. The Bulas is offered at £4 per 50ml pour, so £60 per bottle, but is positively delicious.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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jdaw1
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by jdaw1 »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 20:40 Sun 27 Jun 2021I don’t remember
It’s why phone cameras were invented.
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

I may be missing something but why would anyone order the Quinta da Gaivosa 20 YOT rather than the 1978 Barros Colheita when the latter is cheaper than the former? (Ditto for two glasses for AdS white rather than one of either of these!)
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

JacobH wrote: 21:49 Sun 27 Jun 2021 I may be missing something but why would anyone order the Quinta da Gaivosa 20 YOT rather than the 1978 Barros Colheita when the latter is cheaper than the former? (Ditto for two glasses for AdS white rather than one of either of these!)
I did have a very similar conversation with the sommelier. I felt their pricing policy was out and that their Port list was unbalanced, really needing something bottle aged and significantly older than 2004. Perhaps this was why Warre bottle aged LBV was invented - that's what's missing from their list. Warre LBV from the 1980s.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

jdaw1 wrote: 21:46 Sun 27 Jun 2021
Alex Bridgeman wrote: 20:40 Sun 27 Jun 2021I don’t remember
It’s why phone cameras were invented.
Like I said, I was so taken by the Le Haut-Lieu Moelluex 1993 that the rest of the world disappeared from my perception. Phones were irrelevant. Port was irrelevant. All that was important was the colour and smell of the wine in my glass...
Fabulous deep orange
Fabulous deep orange
Le Haut-Lieu Moelleux 1993 glass.jpg (79.84 KiB) Viewed 11758 times
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
akzy
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by akzy »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 11:55 Tue 29 Jun 2021 All that was important was the colour and smell of the wine in my glass...
I've tried Vouvray a few times now and never been mightily impressed. That being said, the colour of that is just a sight to behold. Will give it a hunt - cheers Alex.
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nac
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by nac »

Updated 67 Pall Mall list - by the glass:
67PM-list1.JPG
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nac
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by nac »

Updated 67 Pall Mall list - by the bottle:
67PM-list2.JPG
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67PM-list3.JPG
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Doggett
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Doggett »

A lot of the 67 PM list seems reasonable within the context of the establishment, but although the range is impressive, I would question how many bottles of Croft Pink 50cls are sold at £40. The flip side of that being the Noval 40YO and the Nacional 2011 among others are very good value at their prices… if your funds allow 😀
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

Curiously, I can’t see that we have ever discussed The Port House. If I am describing it correctly, it is a small Irish chain of Spanish restaurants / bars with a Port theme (!). I’ve only been to the one in London which is on the Strand.

Save for one aspect, I think it is hard to fault their selection of Ports: they have 15 available by the glass covering a really nice range of producers, types and prices. That one aspect is how little Vintage Port they have. I’m really surprised they don’t have both a young SQ(VP) and full VP by the glass and a few older ones by the bottle, too.

Prices are for 10cl, 25cl and the bottle.

White

Kopke Fine White			£6.20 / £15.50/ £46.50 
Nieeport White Rabbit – Dry 		£6.95/ £17.25 / £51.75 
Churchills Dry White (50cl) 		£7.50 / £18.75 / £37.50 
Kopke 10 year old White (37.5cl) 	£11.00 / £27.50 / £46.00 
Kopke White Colheita 2008 		£11.50 / £28.35 / £85.00
Kopke 30 year old White (37.5cl) 	£21.35 / £53.35 / £80.00 

Tawny

Niepoort Tawny Dee 			£6.95 / £17.25 / £51.75
Kopke 10 year old Tawny 		£7.20 / £18.00 / £54.00 
Quinta do Noval 10 year old Tawny 	£8.75 / £21.90 / £65.00 
Barros Colheita 2005 			£10.90 / £27.25 / £81.50 
Dows Fine Tawny 			£32.00
Grahams 20 years old Tawny 		£95.00

Ruby

Churchills Reserve 			£43.50
Grahams Six Grapes Reserve 		£6.60 / £16.50 / £49.50

LBV

Kopke LBV 2014 				£6.90 / £17.25 / £51.75
Churchills LBV 2015 			£52.00
Quinta do Crasto LBV 2014 		£6.50 / £16.25 / £48.00
Quinta de la Rosa LBV 2014 (50cl)	£52.00

Crusted

Nieeport Crusted Port 2014 		£8.75 / £21.90 / £65.00
Churchills Crusted Port 2005 		£63.00 

Vintage

Warre's Quinta da Cavadinha 2004	£10.50/ £26.25 / £78.00 
Quinta do Vesuvio 2003 Vintage 		£145.00 
Nieeport Bioma 2013 Vintage  		£152.00 


There’s a shorter but decent range of sherry, too, and a few Madeiras. The table wine is mostly Spanish.
Last edited by JacobH on 10:29 Fri 23 Jul 2021, edited 2 times in total.
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

PS. The idiosyncratic spelling of Niepoort is their’s not mine!
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MigSU
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by MigSU »

JacobH wrote: 10:08 Fri 23 Jul 2021 a small Irish chain of Spanish restaurants / bars with a Port theme
:shock:
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Glenn E. »

JacobH wrote: 10:08 Fri 23 Jul 2021 Save for one aspect, I think it is hard to fault their selection of Ports: they have 15 available by the glass covering a really nice range of producers, types and prices. That one aspect is how little Vintage Port they have. I’m really surprised they don’t have both a young SQ(VP) and full VP by the glass and a few older ones by the bottle, too.
I've been to the one on the Strand and enjoyed it each time.

As to your quibble, I suspect there are two reasons.

First, the place is fairly small as I recall so they likely don't have much of a cellar and can't store/age Vintage Port. With the kind of volume they do (it has always seemed busy when I've been there) they likely have to purchase regularly, which would limit them to only current releases.

Since one would assume that a business with a name like "The Port House" would know proper Port, only having new releases available for drinking would seem very wrong to me.

And second, as you already noted it's a Spanish-themed place. Tawny Port is much more analogous to Sherry so more proper for the theme.
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

Someone took me, very generously, to lunch at Hide on Piccadilly recently.

Their assistant Sommelier, Martin Kleveta, is described as the first-ever UK Master of Port. I did think this might be a Port-specific version of the MW qualification but perhaps thankfully for my bank balance, it seems to be more like a competition run by the IVDP for professionals.

(Apparently the first time the competition was first run, it was for French wine professionals, on the basis that France is the largest Port market, although anyone who has looked at the IVDP’s own data for what gets sold there will realise that doesn’t tell the whole story...)

Anyway, in addition to a fairly deep list of sweet wines by the glass, they now also offer the following Port flights:

“Tawny vs White” — £39

Sandeman 20 YOT
Kopke 30 YO White
Graham 40 YOT
Kopke 50 YO White

“Vinha Velha” — £49

Taylor VVV 2017
Qd Vesuvio Capela 2016
Niepoort Bioma 2015
Graham Stone Terraces 2015

“Fladgate vs Symington” — £59

Taylor 2017
Fonseca 1980
Dow 1975
Graham 1955

The flights were described as being 100ml, although I think i got a touch more. They had been Coravin’ed into decent glasses.

A long time since I have seen a Port tasting suggestion which I could not fault. I’d have been more than happy to try the lot. The price is, obviously, high but it’s quite a pricey place generally (the 5 course set menu is £120 with wine options being £90, £245, £475 & £1,795!)

I went for the Vinha Velha on the basis that I’ve never had a chance to try four super-premium Ports from different shippers together before. I didn’t take notes but the best for me was probably the Qd Vesuvio Capela by a whisker over the Graham’s ST. The Niepoort is a bit sulky and tannic: really does need another 30 years. The Taylor VVV was also a bit young but didn’t quite have the complexity that I think the Niepoort will grow into.
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Glenn E.
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Glenn E. »

100 ml pours seem quite generous to me - that's comfortably over 3 oz! I'm used to 2.5 oz over here or 70-75 ml. Quevedo's 90 ml bottles from the Advent calendar seemed very healthy, so 100 ml would be excellent.

I'd have probably gone with the VV tasting as well. The oddball (to me) in that tasting is the Bioma. I realize that the Pisca vineyard is old vines, but the wine made from it is not on the same level as the other 3 super cuvees in that flight.
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by SCP »

I read this as 4 x 25 ml pours! Happy to be corrected though.
400 mL of VVV for £49 is about £90 per bottle, so less than retail?
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

Sorry: should have been clearer: it was 100ml over the 4 glasses so 25ml each. (Although in fairness to me I was merely transposing what the menu said!). I think £49 for 400ml of this wines would be less than their retail price and probably their wholesale price, too!

I see what you mean about the Niepoort but at least it is conceptually similar as a “super-premium” vintage port. Not sure what you’d add instead. Qd Noval Nacional would be the obvious one but that’s in a different price category altogether. The Croft Sērikos? Then we’d be into another Symington v Taylor tasting. Does anyone else make one?

I dare say there are quite a few other shippers whose standard vintage blends are made from old vines (whether or not that has an official definition), although really this was a super-premium rather than vinha velha tasting.
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by SCP »

Could Sandeman Seixo work? It’s probably also not in the same premium category like the others either.

Still - delighted to see such a good selection on offer.
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

SCP wrote: 21:11 Sun 05 Feb 2023 Could Sandeman Seixo work? It’s probably also not in the same premium category like the others either.
I’ve only tried the 2013 which, from taste alone, didn’t seem to me to be more than a standard SQVP. Is it a premium over the classic Sandeman VP blend?
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by MigSU »

It is not. But the last couple of ones have been very very good. Still a 'regular' (SQ)VP, though.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Glenn E. wrote: 22:49 Sat 04 Feb 2023 The oddball (to me) in that tasting is the Bioma. I realize that the Pisca vineyard is old vines, but the wine made from it is not on the same level as the other 3 super cuvees in that flight.
Dirk has always made the Bioma as a super-selected, super-special super-cuvée with the intention that’s its quality would be at least as good as the other wines in this flight. Recently Niepoort have changed its pricing and market positioning to better reflect its quality and rarity. New releases of Bioma are sitting more in line with - or markedly above - the other super-cuvée Ports.

Have a look at the Bioma prices in the Niepoort lodge next time you’re in Oporto to see what I mean.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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JacobH
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by JacobH »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 09:09 Mon 06 Feb 2023 Dirk has always made the Bioma as a super-selected, super-special super-cuvée with the intention that’s its quality would be at least as good as the other wines in this flight. Recently Niepoort have changed its pricing and market positioning to better reflect its quality and rarity. New releases of Bioma are sitting more in line with - or markedly above - the other super-cuvée Ports.

Have a look at the Bioma prices in the Niepoort lodge next time you’re in Oporto to see what I mean.
I can’t see anyone selling a decent range of Niepoort recent releases to get a good feel for prices, but I’m generally getting c.£80 for the 2016 Bioma and c.£70 for the 2019 VP. I think that was the sort of price difference I paid when I bought the 2011. Have they made any since 2016? What sorts of prices are they going for now?

One of the differences I thought between the Bioma and the other super-premiums was that the Bioma was aimed at being a return to a more traditional style of Port. I think it is matured in smaller barrels than the standard blend and is also bottled much later (maybe at the 3 year maximum). I thought the aim was to produce something more similar to an old-fashioned Vintage Port which had been bottled abroad after being shipped in pipe and, as a result, the aim was to make something that was quite late maturing.

My impression of the super-premiums is that there is a huge effort to get them to be approachable whilst young, perhaps even more so than the classic blends. But I may be wrong since I don’t have much experience of them. I just think they are a bit expensive for my tastes.
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Re: Hotel or Restaurant Price List of the Week

Post by winesecretary »

Bioma 2017 £3,000 a bottle from Portugal Vineyards.

It is entirely up to Dirk whether he undertakes radical repricing but I will not be buying any.

No other vintage of Bioma (16,15,13,11,9,8) is more than about £120.
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