Christie’s auctions

Anything to do with Port.
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=87247#p87247]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Auction, Christie’s, 29 June 1978.
Image
Sold at £35 per dozen.

(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24566.)
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

Auction, Christie’s, 20 July 1978.
Image
(Reproduced by kind permission of Christie’s; my picture #24589.)

The handwriting is unclear: the sale price is £210.
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Andy Velebil »

Well now don't that throw a monkey wrench in things. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

I particularly liked the “Rare”.

At Andy Velebil’s request, this also posted on :ftlop2014:.
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by DRT »

Splendid. In one week we have discovered that Noval produced Nacional prior to 1931 and that Fonseca Guimaraens produced two 1931s.

Should we organise a tasting?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
uncle tom
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3518
Joined: 23:43 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Near Saffron Walden, England

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by uncle tom »

There was a Noval '27, but IIRC, the Nacional vineyard was planted in 1926..

A wine made from 1 year old vines on very poor soil? - I have my doubts...
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by djewesbury »

I thought the planting was 1925 but yes, same point as Tom.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Andy Velebil »

uncle tom wrote:There was a Noval '27, but IIRC, the Nacional vineyard was planted in 1926..

A wine made from 1 year old vines on very poor soil? - I have my doubts...
But there are no records to say definitively how it was replanted. Was it all replanted at one time, or was part of it replanted a little at a time? And doesn't anyone else find it odd that someone in 1925 decided this little plot of land was the perfect place to plant ungrafted vines? I suspect there were ungrafted vines there all along and this was an early "trial" version of Nacional.

On a side, I've learned never to say never in the Douro. Everyone was "the first" to do this or that, wines that don't exists do, seemingly everyone bought and sold from everyone else at some point in history, and record keeping wasn't their strong suit. So for something like this to happen doesn't surprise me :lol:
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by djewesbury »

Andy Velebil wrote:I suspect there were ungrafted vines there all along and this was an early "trial" version of Nacional.
I think this sounds very likely.
Andy Velebil wrote:record keeping wasn't their strong suit
As a further aside, I think that the English-speaking world gets less than half the story; I would say that :tpf: and :ftlop2014: are the exceptions, because the source of much of the information quoted here is 'the horse's mouth', so to speak. But I've read so many books and articles about Port and its convoluted history that depend on the English records alone, which are obviously partial (in both senses of the word, at different times). There's a lot published / written / archived in Portuguese that we never get to read about.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

djewesbury wrote:There's a lot published / written / archived in Portuguese that
… was subsequently destroyed in an insurance fire.
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by djewesbury »

Yes, in this instance. I was arguing the more general point, as I said.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

Auction, by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on 12 April 1937, “Rare Wines & Liqueurs, Generously presented for Sale for the Benefit of The Funds of Queen Charlotte’s Hospital”.
Image
Sold at 50/- (=£2½) and 60/- (=£3) per dozen. Yes, lots 116 and 117 each hammered at £1¼. VFM-tastic.
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14879
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

jdaw1 wrote:Auction, by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on 12 April 1937, “Rare Wines & Liqueurs, Generously presented for Sale for the Benefit of The Funds of Queen Charlotte’s Hospital”.
Image
Sold at 50/- (=£2½) and 60/- (=£3) per dozen. Yes, lots 116 and 117 each hammered at £1¼. VFM-tastic.
Over the years I've drunk the former and seen the latter. I wonder if the bottles that I've encountered came from this sale. What an interesting circle of history, but I guess that I will never be able to know for sure.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14879
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

AHB wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Auction, by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on 12 April 1937, “Rare Wines & Liqueurs, Generously presented for Sale for the Benefit of The Funds of Queen Charlotte’s Hospital”.
Image
Sold at 50/- (=£2½) and 60/- (=£3) per dozen. Yes, lots 116 and 117 each hammered at £1¼. VFM-tastic.
Over the years I've drunk the former and seen the latter. I wonder if the bottles that I've encountered came from this sale. What an interesting circle of history, but I guess that I will never be able to know for sure.
Just found my notes, in which I estimate that the 1863 was probably bottled around 1890 (based on the bottle), so the comment in the catalogue about the wine being bottled over 50 years prior to the sale is pretty consistent with this estimate.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by jdaw1 »

Image
Did that shipper ever own that vineyard? Evidence of same welcomed.
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by DRT »

jdaw1 wrote:Image
Did that shipper ever own that vineyard? Evidence of same welcomed.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3267&p=30822#p30822]Here[/url] Dom Symington wrote:Zimbro was sold to the Pinto Espanyol's by my family in 1952. We continue to make the Port from the property although they have recently started to make some Douro DOC's from Zimbro as well. (at the time the sale of Zimbro & Sra. da Ribeira enabled the family to remain independent)
Roncão was as you correctly mention a Robertson property who's vintage brand is Rabelo Valente. Robertson's were acquired by Sandeman's shortly after the war. It is now privately owned and may well supply Noval being virtually "off the back" of the Quinta.
Feurheerd were based at Quinta de la Rosa however Clare Feureheerd (married Bergqvist, Sophia's grand-mother) inherited the property privately, hence the change.
In the post-war years many shippers simply closed or merged into some of the larger companies. At the time both Ferreira and Barros acquired quite a number and now periodically release them as a brand or just a vintage.
Bom Retiro is the name used for the general area of the Rio Torto valley with a number of properties using the name or a variation of... The actual Bom Retiro Quinta, a larger part (approx 60%) belongs to Ramos Pinto while a smaller part (approx. 40%) belonged to the Serôdio family and it has been an integral part of Warre's vintage since 1932 and was purchased from the Serôdio heirs by my family a couple of years ago. (3 Serôdio's have or currently still work with my family and one of the next generation has just joined us!)

The period in question is just after phyloxera when many shippers were looking to buy properties in the Douro. It must be remembered that shippers at this time were effectively brokers buying wines from growers, aging, blending and exporting as required and it is more than likely that they would have found/selected specific lots of exceptional wines and offered them as Single Quinta. After all Kopke's Qta. de Roriz was probably the most famous Vintage Port in the mid C.19! ... incidentaly in the late C.19 Kopke was managed by George Hardy Mason, Maurice Symington's (my Grandfather) father-in-law.

It's not easy to use todays Quinta ownership as the basis for late C.19 wines. Additionally the Douro was very much foucused further west than it is today therefore some peoprtires may not even feature in today's records... I'm not sure if this helps...!
Dom Symington
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3028
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Andy Velebil »

DRT wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Image
Did that shipper ever own that vineyard? Evidence of same welcomed.
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3267&p=30822#p30822]Here[/url] Dom Symington wrote:Zimbro was sold to the Pinto Espanyol's by my family in 1952. We continue to make the Port from the property although they have recently started to make some Douro DOC's from Zimbro as well. (at the time the sale of Zimbro & Sra. da Ribeira enabled the family to remain independent)
Roncão was as you correctly mention a Robertson property who's vintage brand is Rabelo Valente. Robertson's were acquired by Sandeman's shortly after the war. It is now privately owned and may well supply Noval being virtually "off the back" of the Quinta.
Feurheerd were based at Quinta de la Rosa however Clare Feureheerd (married Bergqvist, Sophia's grand-mother) inherited the property privately, hence the change.
In the post-war years many shippers simply closed or merged into some of the larger companies. At the time both Ferreira and Barros acquired quite a number and now periodically release them as a brand or just a vintage.
Bom Retiro is the name used for the general area of the Rio Torto valley with a number of properties using the name or a variation of... The actual Bom Retiro Quinta, a larger part (approx 60%) belongs to Ramos Pinto while a smaller part (approx. 40%) belonged to the Serôdio family and it has been an integral part of Warre's vintage since 1932 and was purchased from the Serôdio heirs by my family a couple of years ago. (3 Serôdio's have or currently still work with my family and one of the next generation has just joined us!)

The period in question is just after phyloxera when many shippers were looking to buy properties in the Douro. It must be remembered that shippers at this time were effectively brokers buying wines from growers, aging, blending and exporting as required and it is more than likely that they would have found/selected specific lots of exceptional wines and offered them as Single Quinta. After all Kopke's Qta. de Roriz was probably the most famous Vintage Port in the mid C.19! ... incidentaly in the late C.19 Kopke was managed by George Hardy Mason, Maurice Symington's (my Grandfather) father-in-law.

It's not easy to use todays Quinta ownership as the basis for late C.19 wines. Additionally the Douro was very much foucused further west than it is today therefore some peoprtires may not even feature in today's records... I'm not sure if this helps...!
Dom Symington
Who said the Douro's history was easy :lol:
User avatar
Chris Doty
Graham’s Malvedos 1996
Posts: 843
Joined: 12:30 Fri 29 Jan 2010

Re: Christie’s auctions

Post by Chris Doty »

:P Where else but :D :tpf: :tpf: :tpf:
Post Reply