2020 Declarations

Anything to do with Port.
Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 00:09 Mon 16 May 2022 There might be another way to look at the pricing of these two wines. They are the selection of the very finest lotes made from the very best grapes from the cream of the Symington vineyards in order to make wines fit to commemorate the 200th anniversary of Graham’s and the 350th anniversary of Warre.
But no Stone Terraces?

Regarding pricing, note that the original release of The Stone Terraces in 2011 had a MSRP of $225/75cl in the US, and IIRC was 150 GBP in the UK. It was possible to find it for less than that, but most stores - even on the internet - were selling at full MSRP. That was for a release of 250 x 9l cases. If you can even find it today, the price fluctuates between $500 and $800 per bottle. It's currently ~$700/bottle in the UK.

Has Stone Terraces increased in value because it is a super cuvee, or is it because of the extremely limited 250-case release?

Note that until COVID hit, 2015 (400 cases), 2016 (450 cases), and 2017 (600 cases) were all still available at or below release price. In particular the 2015 could be found at a significant discount from MSRP - as low as $125 to $150 - and even currently can still be found for $165/bottle in the UK. The 2016 and 2017 have crept back up to MSRP or slightly higher over the last 2 years, but prior to COVID could still be found for around $175.

Unless you really think that the Stone Terraces pricing is entirely because it is a super cuvee, I would have to agree with Andy. These very small limited releases are only going to increase in price over time due to supply and demand. Major releases may not, but if you need 2020 Graham for a special reason, I recommend getting it as soon as you can even if this is just an initial release from a larger stock.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by PCM »

Wine & Soul will declare a Pintas 2020 Vintage Port !!!
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by SCP »

Farr Vintners just listed 2020 Churchill's EP at 520 IB per 12-bottle case (normal size bottes).
For reference they have the 2016 at 440 IB as well.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by SCP »

Axa Millessima and Vintage Wine & Port have both listed 6-packs of Noval 2020, only available DPV, and at £530 and £470 respectively.
It doesn’t look like any have been bought since being listed a couple of weeks ago.
forest26
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by forest26 »

I do have a little news to add in that all those who brought a 2020 Grahams port bond will get 6 bottles of 2020 Grahams VP. Nice to see SFE honouring their commitment - even with a special release! Sadly the offer for the 2020 is no longer available.

Publicity around the 2020 release has generally been very low key. Noval, SFE and others have only released a tiny amount and allocations to retailers are also quite small.
Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Andy Velebil »

Glenn E. wrote: 22:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: 22:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Andy Velebil »

Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: 22:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!
I have no idea why the price difference is so great between the UK and the States. Usually release price difference is relatively small nowadays.
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Apologies if this has been posted and I have missed it but does anyone know what happened to the Vesuvio grapes? I presume they were harvested and vinified (albeit not under foot) which would give them a stock of decent wine to use for something else.
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Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Andy Velebil wrote: 14:35 Fri 01 Jul 2022
Glenn E. wrote:
Andy Velebil wrote:
Glenn E. wrote: 22:05 Thu 30 Jun 2022 Does anyone know if 2020 Graham will be released anywhere besides England?

I need to decide if I should get some in England and have it sent to Seckfords, or if I can wait until it arrives in the US which usually takes an extra 6-12 months.
It is available now in the USA at www.vintageandfinewines.com
Bleh. $300/bottle is more expensive than Stone Terraces!
I have no idea why the price difference is so great between the UK and the States. Usually release price difference is relatively small nowadays.
Vintage and Fine Wines is not exactly known for having competitive prices, but this one is even crazier than usual.

In my experience the "surcharge" for buying in the US at retail is usually about the cost of having something shipped over from England (in a large enough shipment). Stone Terraces was $225 retail in the US and (IIRC) 150 GBP in London. When those were released that was roughly the equivalent of $200, and then shipping 10 mixed cases via air freight added about $20 - $25 per bottle. So... about the same price either way.

But 2020 Graham is $300 in the US and I can find it for roughly the same 150 GBP as Stone Terraces in London, which at today's exchange rate is $180. At those prices, and even adding the cost of having it shipped to Seckford's and paying for a year of storage there (which you get charged for even if it's a simple check in/check out), it's still cheaper to buy in London and air ship to Seattle. Which is silly.

But that's what I'll have to do if I can't find it for a more reasonable price in the US.
Glenn Elliott
Glenn E.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

JacobH wrote: 14:56 Fri 01 Jul 2022 Apologies if this has been posted and I have missed it but does anyone know what happened to the Vesuvio grapes? I presume they were harvested and vinified (albeit not under foot) which would give them a stock of decent wine to use for something else.
I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

Glenn E. wrote: 18:59 Fri 01 Jul 2022I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.
That’s what I had heard too. I was guessing that grapes would have been mechanically vinified somehow on the basis that they were too good to waste and so will have made it into the Symington stocks somewhere. I suppose I am rather hoping we’ll get some very good special edition ruby or LBV made from them!
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

JacobH wrote: 21:33 Fri 01 Jul 2022
Glenn E. wrote: 18:59 Fri 01 Jul 2022I recall hearing that Vesuvio was closed in 2020 and 2021, meaning that there will be no VP for either year. What happened to the grapes I do not know... I presume they were harvested somehow, by someone, just to get them off the vines, but I have no idea when that may have happened or what they may have done with them after harvest. It sounded to me like the entire estate was basically shut down and in maintenance mode for 2 years, but I may have misinterpreted what I heard.
That’s what I had heard too. I was guessing that grapes would have been mechanically vinified somehow on the basis that they were too good to waste and so will have made it into the Symington stocks somewhere. I suppose I am rather hoping we’ll get some very good special edition ruby or LBV made from them!
They were sent to Quinta do Bomfim to be vinified there and incorporated into other SFE ports (I think the Vesúvio DOC wines were still made and will be released, unlike the Vesúvio VPs).
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JacobH
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by JacobH »

MigSU wrote: 07:56 Sat 02 Jul 2022 They were sent to Quinta do Bomfim to be vinified there and incorporated into other SFE ports (I think the Vesúvio DOC wines were still made and will be released, unlike the Vesúvio VPs).
Interesting. Thank you. I suppose with volumes being down generally for 2020 and 2021, they probably don’t have enough Port for them to be used for anything special.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

I'm 99% sure, but I'll still ask my friend that runs the Vesúvio winery, just to be certain.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

Vesúvio DOC was produced at Sol. Port grapes were sent to Bomfim, for other SFE ports.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

From what I understand, the Symingtons are very proud of the fact that all Vesuvio vintage Ports are foot trodden on the estate.

Social distancing at the estate meant that many but each individually small picking teams could still operate in the vineyards to harvest the grapes but, as Miguel says, the grapes were sent elsewhere to be vinified using modern lagares.

The decision was taken that since the Port grapes from Vesuvio had not been foot trodden - and foot treading on the estate is part of the core value of the Vesuvio Port - no Vesuvio Vintage Port would be released from the 2020 vintage.

It’s worth keeping in mind that the Vintage Port produced at Vesuvio is only a small part of the estate’s Port production. Most of the Port made at Vesuvio would normally go into the blends and stocks of the other brands of SFE anyway. Nevertheless, I’m sure the extra 12-15 pipes normally used to make Vintage Port at Vesuvio will make a very welcome addition to the stocks needed to be built up to cope with the surging demand for tawny Port.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Glenn E. »

Alex Bridgeman wrote: 23:27 Tue 05 Jul 2022 I’m sure the extra 12-15 pipes normally used to make Vintage Port at Vesuvio will make a very welcome addition to the stocks needed to be built up to cope with the surging demand for tawny Port.
One can only hope!
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by forest26 »

The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by MigSU »

That's odd.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Axel P »

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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by Doggett »

forest26 wrote: 16:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022 The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
I think something similar happened with the 1972 vintage with the General Dow release being widely available but the Bonfim just Scandinavia and that possibly being just Denmark. Maybe Julian’s Second edition will be able to confirm these oddities.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by jdaw1 »

First edition has plenty of Denmark-only mentions.

forest26 wrote: 16:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
Source, please.
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Re: 2020 Declarations

Post by forest26 »

jdaw1 wrote: 20:33 Thu 07 Jul 2022 First edition has plenty of Denmark-only mentions.

forest26 wrote: 16:00 Thu 07 Jul 2022The 2020 Bonfim is destined exclusively for the Danish Market
Source, please.
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