Decanting for a tasting

[Rummy]

In about a week I'm organising a 85 tasting for some friends. We're going to try 12 different bottles, starting at around 13:00.

Since I own just two decanters, my plan is to double decant each bottle, and Vacuvin it after a while. I do own plenty of Vacuvin corks.

Looking for some advice on decanting times, with my limited resources, and maybe drinking order as well, please.

The Skeffington will be replaced by Van Zellers, as it slipped through my hands a few weeks ago.

[Glenn E.]

From everything that I have read and heard, Vacuvin doesn't actually do much. It cannot actually create a vacuum in the bottle, and even the partial vacuum that it can create isn't all that significant. There's still a lot of air in the bottle so it's not that much different than just re-corking with a t-stopper.

That aside...

The bigger names from 1985 probably need 3-4 hours of actual decant time prior to the start of drinking. Meaning that I would leave a 1985 Graham, just as an example, in a decanter for about 4 hours before the start. Same for Taylor, Noval, Dow, Fonseca, and even the Kopke S. Luiz.

I don't know how to translate re-stoppered time into actual decant time, but I have to assume it's worth less. Even if "less" only means you need 3 hours of stoppered time to equal 2 hours of actual decant time, you're now looking at doing your splash decanting first thing in the morning at 7:00 am.

Then there's the variability of the Fonseca. Some bottles of 1985 Fonseca need a minimum of 8 hours in a decanter to show their best. Others are fine with 3-4 as above. I've never been able to tell ahead of time which kind of bottle I've opened, so my recommendation would be to decant it first, give it a brief check when the tasting starts, and then decide whether to drink it first or last at that point. (Note that the Port is pretty uniformly excellent, the only variability I'm talking about here is the amount of decant time needed for a peak showing.)

In my experience Taylor and Dow can also be variable, but not to the degree seen in the Fonseca. So perhaps decant them after the Fonseca and then perform a similar test right before the tasting.

Looks like a great tasting! I wish I closer.

[Rummy]

Thank you Glenn, this helps me a lot!

I shall open the bottles at around 7-8 a.m. and re-cork them at the start of the tasting, having some sips of the Fonseca while preparing/cleaning for my guests.

How do people generally organise these tastings, do they really own a lot of decanters?

[Alex Bridgeman]

Honestly Rummy, with a big tasting like this one I usually just double decant and leave the stoppers off until I need to move the bottles. If you’re starting to taste at 12.00 I’d start decanting at about 08.00 and would decant Fonseca, Graham, Dow, Taylor first. The Pousada and Van Zeller I don’t know but would guess those to be quite evolved so I would decant at the end.

At 12.00 when you start, I’d pour a glass of each wine and then taste the lightest coloured wine first and the darkest last.

Two decanters is fine for a tasting like this, but how many glasses do you have…

[mcoulson]

In the UK I have Lots of these

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/olympia-solar ... -x48/cu002

They are not a patch on a well crafted wine glass but if you need lots of glasses and you don't want to cry when one is broken then they do the trick.

I also have these which work for water very nicely and at a push get air into port

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/arcoroc-vin-c ... 1ltr/dp104

I do have some of these as well which are very good.

https://amzn.eu/d/b4tfUuz

The key bit for me is live comparison so many glasses is the important bit ...

Nothing beats 14 glasses of port in front of a person at the same time so you can compare ....

I'm sure there will be something similar in your part of the world ....

Does sound like a fun evening that you have planned tho

[Rummy]

Two decanters is fine for a tasting like this, but how many glasses do you have…

around ~20, so would have to rinse them. Definitely isn't going to be perfect, especially in my ~30m2 living room. Starting with the lightest coloured wine sounds like a good idea, thanks!

[Rummy]

In the UK I have Lots of these
...

Does sound like a fun evening that you have planned tho

Thank you for the product pages and advice, sadly I must conclude that my facilities are just not up to par for a proper tasting. Lack of (storage) space in a small city apartment just isn't ideal . I might buy some of the decanters (or similar) you suggested, I guess there's some space behind my couch .

[flash_uk]

Only thing I’d add to the great advice already proffered, is to remember that double decanting 12 bottles is going to take best part of 60 minutes without a break, so don’t forget to plan that time in.

On the topic of wine glasses, these from IKEA are almost indistinguishable from those we use at the B&F, and at ~84 pence a pop, they don’t break the bank. For the price of half a bottle of G85 you could get 30 glasses.

IMG_2578.jpeg (68.99 KiB) Viewed 674 times

Have fun!

[Alex Bridgeman]

You can also hire glasses and decanters from certain wine stores, which is very helpful if you don’t have much storage space. You hire, use, clean and return.

[Glenn E.]

Several of us here in the Seattle area have multiple cases of INAO tasting glasses. I think we have 14-15 cases amongst the Port Club. They're inexpensive (IIRC they were $2.75 per stem in a case of 36) and are the same size and shape as a Port glass. Sadly, the company that we bought all of our cases from is no longer in business. However a similar glass can still be found here, albeit slightly more expensive: Ravenscroft Crystal.

They're sturdy, but have a rolled lip and a glued stem. What do you expect for $2.75 each? They work great for large tastings.

[Glenn E.]

Honestly Rummy, with a big tasting like this one I usually just double decant and leave the stoppers off until I need to move the bottles.

I think this is the correct plan for you. Start your double-decant regimen at 7-8 am with the Fonseca, then the Dow, Taylor, and Graham, and leave the bottles uncorked until you're ready to start pouring into glasses for the tasting.

At that point, test the 4 above to figure out if they're ready, or if they should be saved until last to give them more time. My guess is that you'll want to drink them at the end of your tasting in the reverse order that I listed them here, i.e. the Graham first (of these 4) and the Fonseca last.

I'm not familiar enough with the other Ports to suggest an order, other than that they will probably all work out just fine if consumed before the above 4 Ports. I've had all but the Pousada and Skeffington before, just not often. Ordered by color, lightest to darkest as Alex suggested, is usually a pretty safe bet.

[Rummy]

Thank you for all the replies and advice.

I will post the results of the tasting next week.

[jdaw1]

Fonseca 1985 benefits from a long decant. For F85 my standard is 24 hours.

[jdaw1]

Please post tasting notes, especially for the unusual — so most of all for the Pousada. Indeed, please post (and send to PhilW) multiple good pictures of that bottle.

[Rummy]

Please post tasting notes, especially for the unusual — so most of all for the Pousada. Indeed, please post (and send to PhilW) multiple good pictures of that bottle.

Will do, the tasting is planned for next sunday; will post notes probably the day after.

[Rummy]

Turned out to be a lovely tasting. Double decanted all bottles between 07:15 am and 08:30 am, consumed between 13:15 and 17:15. Tried to go from light to darker, observed at decanting.

I do not have any experience with tasting notes, other from taking personal notes.

All ports are from the 1985 vintage:

Pousada - Unbalanced port, oxidative, very nutty, sour, strong alcohol. Definitely past peak, but don't expect it was ever very good.

Ferreira - Lovely light tannins, strawberry and lots of red fruit. Definitely an upgrade from the previous port.

Burmester - Quite strong alcohol in this one as well, sharp, sour, raisins, but also some red fruit. Not the greatest, not the worst.

Grahams - Sweet, strawberry and other red fruits. Lovely quite long finish, invites for another pour. At this point the favourite of most of the group.

Noval - Bottle was flawed, iron/cabbage/copper on the nose; very unpleasant.

Dow - Lovely nose, best smelling port so far. Dark fruit, complex with a long finish. While very different from Graham's the group agreed that these two were on par with each other.

Van Zeller - Slightly corked, but drinkable nonetheless. Red fruits, sweeter style port. But the fruit wasn't as dominant as a good example of the bottle could have been.

Osbourne - Very sweet, oxidative style, easy to drink and enjoy.

Taylor's - Raisins, dark fruit but quite tannic still. Didn't impress too much sadly. Maybe not the best example of the bottle given the expectations. I feel like this one will continue to develop over the next 20 years.

Kopke QSL - The surprise of the evening, a great port. Lovely soft tannins, elegant, fruity and a lovely aftertaste.

Cálem - Very strange bottle. Extremely dark, no deposit at all in the bottle. Way too structural to be a 85 vintage, tasted like a rather young ruby reserve. Had a former retailer of the bottle present (while I didn't get this specific bottle from him), who told us they bought these bottles by the 100s in the mid 2010's and could sell them for 35 euro's each whilst still making a very decent margin. Something's off.

Fonseca - First bottle was oxidized, which I luckily picked up while decanting. Opened a second bottle that was truly amazing. Lovely soft tannins, sweet but very balanced. More mature than the 92 I've had recently, but will definitely survive the next 10 to 20 years. My favourite of the evening.

Every bottle has been individually photographed, feel free to contact me for specific pictures.

[winesecretary]

Rummy, thank you for those tasting notes - which are, in my view, excellent because they evoke the wines for us - which is what tasting notes are for (which some professional critics forget).

[winesecretary]

I should say - your note on the Calem sounds very much like a note on something else. The Calem is consistently, dry, plummy port and fully mature. See tasting notes index.

[Rummy]

I should say - your note on the Calem sounds very much like a note on something else. The Calem is consistently, dry, plummy port and fully mature. See tasting notes index.

Checked out the tasting notes index and made some adjustments on my previous post. However, I'm not sure however what you're trying to say here (I'm probably missing the point).

[MigSU]

I think he's trying to say that Calém VPs have a consistent profile, which is the opposite of what you tasted in that particular bottle.


(edited for terrible grammar)

[Rummy]

I think he's trying to say that Calém VPs has a consistent profile, which is the opposite of the what you tasted on that particular bottle.

I think you're right, thank you.

Opened one of these bottles last december while doing a small Cálem vertical (85, 99 and 2020) and had the exact same experience.

The 99 was more mature than the 85.

[winesecretary]

@ Rummy - MigSu is right in his interpretation of what I was saying. What you tasted was not consistent with this forum’s notes on Calem 1985, basically. Your suspicion that the bottle you tasted might not be ‘right’ is accordingly almost certainly correct.

[Rummy]

@ Rummy - MigSu is right in his interpretation of what I was saying. What you tasted was not consistent with this forum’s notes on Calem 1985, basically. Your suspicion that the bottle you tasted might not be ‘right’ is accordingly almost certainly correct.

I'll make a seperate post about this bottle, would like to hear some opinions on it.

[mcoulson]

Looks like you had a great time which is what it's all about Port was invented to be drunk with friends

[Glenn E.]

Your favorites, if I have interpreted your notes correctly, were alphabetically Dow, Fonseca, Graham, and Kopke Sao Luis. None of which surprise me. Those are consistently the best Ports of the vintage for me.