Standardised House Names

[jdaw1]

But that is a different Quinta do Silval

Which that? Not a “that† different to

Magalhães Vintage Porto 2000

as Magalhães is mentioned on their website.

The list of names, still not yet including Derek’s extras as I really ought to be doing something else right now.

• Abbrev.; Sortable; Display Name
• AVF; Adega Vila Flor; Adega Cooperativa de Vila Flor;
• Am; Amarela; Quinta da Casa Amarela;
• A; Andresen; Andresen;
• Av; Avery; Avery;
• Bx; Baixo; Quinta Sá de Baixo;
• Bl; Baldias; Quinta de Baldias;
• BV; Barao Vilar; Barão de Vilar;
• Br; Barros; Barros;
• BBR; Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection; Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection;
• BI; Borges Irmao; Borges & Irmão;
• Bo; Bragao; Quinta do Bragào;
• Bb; Broadbent; Broadbent;
• Bh; Brunheda; Quinta da Brunheda;
• Bu; Bucheiro; Quinta do Bucheiro;
• B; Burmester; Burmester;
• BN; Butler Nephew; Butler Nephew;
• Ca; Calem; Cálem;
• CaF; Calem Foz; Cálem Quinta da Foz;
• Cn; Canais; Quinta dos Canais;
• Cp; Champalimaud Cotto; Champalimaud Quinta do Côtto;
• Ch; Churchill; Churchill;
• CAA; Churchill Agua Alta; Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta;
• ChF; Churchill Fojo; Churchill Quinta do Fojo;
• C; Cockburn; Cockburn;
• Cs; Crasto; Quinta do Crasto;
• Cr; Croft; Croft;
• CR; Croft Roeda; Croft Quinta da Roeda;
• Cz; Cruz; Cruz;
• Dl; Dalva (Presidential); Dalva (Presidential);
• Df; Delaforce; Delaforce;
• DC; Delaforce Corte; Delaforce Quinta da Corte;
• DM; Dona Maria; Quinta do Vale Dona Maria;
• D; Dow; Dow;
• DB; Dow Bomfim; Dow Quinta do Bomfim;
• DG; Duff Gordon; Duff Gordon;
• Es; Estanho; Quinta do Estanho;
• Ef; Eufemia; Casa de Santa Eufemia;
• Fe; Feist; Feist;
• Fr; Ferreira; Ferreira;
• FrS; Ferreira Seixo; Ferreira Quinta do Seixo;
• Fh; Feuerheerd; Feuerheerd;
• VF; Figueira; Quinta de Val da Figueira;
• F; Fonseca; Fonseca;
• FSA; Fonseca Antonio; Fonseca Quinta de Santo António;
• FC; Fonseca Cruzeiro; Fonseca Quinta do Cruzeiro;
• FG; Fonseca Guimaraens; Fonseca Guimaraens;
• FP; Fonseca Panascal; Fonseca Quinta do Panascal;
• Gb; Gilbert; Gilbert;
• GB; Gonzalez Byass; Gonzalez Byass;
• GC; Gould Campbell; Gould Campbell;
• G; Graham; Graham;
• GL; Graham Lages; Graham Quinta das Lages;
• GM; Graham Malvedos; Graham Malvedos;
• Gd; Guedes; Guedes;
• Hv; Harvey Bristol; Harvey of Bristol;
• Hd; Heredias; Quinta das Herédias;
• Ho; Hooper; Hooper;
• HR; Hunt Roope; Hunt, Roope;
• H; Hutcheson; Hutcheson;
• I; Infantado; Quinta do Infantado;
• Jd; Judeu; Quinta do Judeu;
• K; Kopke; Kopke;
• KL; Kopke Luiz; Kopke Quinta São Luiz;
• Kh; Krohn; Krohn;
• KRN; Krohn Retiro Novo; Krohn Quinta do Retiro Novo;
• Lc; Liceiras; Quinta das Liceiras;
• Mc; Mackenzie; Mackenzie;
• Mg; Magalhaes; Magalhães;
• Mr; Marrocos; Quinta de Marrocos;
• SM; Marta; Santa Marta;
• Mz; Martinez; Martinez (Harvey);
• MEV; Martinez Eira Velha; Martinez Quinta da Eira Velha;
• VM; Meao; Quinta de Vale Meão;
• Md; Mendiz; Vale de Mendiz (Sandeman);
• Ms; Messias; Messias;
• MC; Messias Cachão; Messias Quinta do Cachão;
• Mo; Moreira; Moreira;
• M; Morgan; Morgan;
• Mo; Mourao; Quinta do Mourão;
• NN; Nacional; Quinta do Noval Nacional;
• Ni; Niepoort; Niepoort;
• NP; Niepoort Passadouro; Niepoort Quinta do Passadouro;
• NSC; Nova Nossa Senhora Carmo; Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo;
• N; Noval; Quinta do Noval;
• NSv; Noval 2; Noval Silval;
• NM; Noval Marco; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco;
• NS; Noval Silval; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval;
• O; Offley; Offley;
• OBV; Offley Boa Vista; Offley Boa Vista;
• Os; Osborne; Osborne;
• Pa; Pacheca; Quinta da Pacheca;
• Pi; Pintas; Pintas;
• PS; Pinto dos Santos; A. Pinto dos Santos;
• Pc; Pocas; Poças;
• Pt; Portal; Quinta do Portal;
• Pg; Pulga; Quinta da Pulga;
• QH; Quarles Harris; Quarles Harris;
• RP; Ramos Pinto; Ramos Pinto;
• RPBR; Ramos Pinto Bom Retiro; Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro;
• RPE; Ramos Pinto Ervamoira; Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira;
• RV; Robertson Rebello Valente; Robertson Rebello Valente;
• RR; Robertson Roncao; Robertson Quinta da Roncao;
• Ra; Romaneira; Quinta da Romaneira;
• Ro; Romariz; Romariz;
• Rr; Roriz; Quinta de Roriz;
• Rs; Rosa; Quinta de la Rosa;
• RO; Royal Oporto; Royal Oporto;
• ROC; Royal Oporto Carvalhas; Royal Oporto Quinta das Carvalhas;
• Rz; Rozes; Rozès;
• S; Sandeman; Sandeman;
• SV; Sandeman Vau; Sandeman Vau;
• SJ; Santos Junior; Santos Junior;
• SPA; Sao Pedro das Aguias; Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Aguias;
• VS; Sapos; Quinta de Vale de Sapos;
• SO; Seara Ordens; Quinta da Seara D’Ordens;
• SC; Senhora do Convento; Senhora do Convento;
• Sk; Skeffington; Skeffington;
• SW; Smith Woodhouse; Smith Woodhouse;
• SWM; Smith Woodhouse Madalena; Smith Woodhouse Madalena;
• Sl; Solene; Solene;
• Sz; Souza; Souza;
• T; Taylor; Taylor;
• TTF; Taylor Terra Feita; Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita;
• TV; Taylor Vargellas; Taylor Quinta de Vargellas;
• TVVV; Taylor Vargellas Vinha Velha; Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha;
• Tc; Tecedeiras; Quinta das Tecedeiras;
• Td; Tedo; Quinta do Tedo;
• Vl; Vallado; Quinta do Vallado;
• Vt; Ventozelo; Quinta de Ventozelo;
• V; Vesuvio; Quinta do Vesuvio;
• VA; Vista Allegre; Quinta da Vista Allegre;
• W; Warre; Warre;
• WC; Warre Cavadinha; Warre Quinta da Cavadinha;
• VZ; Zeller; JMF & Van Zeller.

[DRT]

But that is a different Quinta do Silval

Which that? Not a “that† different to

Magalhães Vintage Porto 2000

as Magalhães is mentioned on their website.

Here on http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum

[...] that the Noval Silval VP is made from grapes bought in from many different sources and - I assume - possibly also from grapes from the Noval vineyard that didn't make it into the Noval wines. [....]

Alex - I believe this is accurate.

Ok, these are my 2 :twocents:
The way I understand it is that Silval by itself it's just a brand that belongs to Quinta-do-Noval.

It happens that Quinta-do-Noval owns a small plot inside the Quinta-do-Silval area. Even today this happens to be a fact.

The brand Silval was registered by the Noval owners (Cristiano van Zeller) in the past and that had happened several years before Quinta-do-Silval itself started bottling their own Ports. At that time, Mr Carlos Magalhães (owner of Quinta-do-Silval) is main wine activity was producing & buying grapes and also selling bulk wines. "Branding" then, was not a major concern for Mr Magalhães himself.

The very first Port that Mr Carlos Magalhães (owner of Quinta-do-Silval) has bottled, was a LBV 1999 (bottled in 2003?) and their first Vintage was the 2000 (bottled in 2002). Since the Silval brand was previously taken by Noval, the Magalhães family, owners of Quinta-do-Silval, had to come up with a different brand for their own Ports, which ended up by being Magalhães Ports.

In conclusion, nowadays the wines branded Magalhães Ports have the following information (quoted below) placed at the bottom of the label and in small printing (I'm reading it from a genuine label right now):
Created, Produced and Bottled
by
Carlos Magalhães
Quinta do Silval
5085 - Vale de Mendiz
.

Mario is a man who's knowledge of the Douro region and it's history I trust implicitly. I think we need the following entries in the index:

Noval Silval
Quinta do Noval (Quinta do Silval)
Magalhães (Quinta do Noval)

Derek

[DRT]

I just remembered something that I have been told previously. Qunita do Noval use 2 separate principle brands for all of the ports they produce. These are:

• Quinta do Noval - for wine made entirely from the Quinta's grapes:
  • Quinta do Noval Vintage Port; and,
  • Quinta do Noval Nacional Vintage Port
• Noval - for wines made from blends containing other grapes, such as:
  • Noval Unfiltered LBV;
  • Noval Tawny;
  • Noval Ruby
  • Noval Colhieta; and,
  • Noval Silval Vintage Port

The only wines that appear to buck this trend are the Qunita do Noval Quinta do Silval and Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco ports uncovered by ADV. However, I believe, the plots of land from which these wines were produced were at the time they were made entirely within the boundaries of Quinta do Noval, so they comply with the brand guidelines stated above.

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Trying, as always, to make life as easy as possible for the people who are actually doing the work to make this project happen, let me try and summarise the conclusions that I thought we had reached for the naming of ports:

1) Shippers who declare will be named as set out on the port labels
2) We will NOT include ANY UK merchants who either relabelled a shipper's blend OR created their own blend. This will be carried forward to Part 2 of Project Derek.
3) Quintas will be listed as shippers where a single quinta wine was declared, whether as an independent declaration or by a larger shipper who may or may not have owned the quinta at the time of the harvest. The shipper's name will NOT be shown alongside the name of the quinta to prevent the confusion of history. (This will be carried forward to Part 3 of Project Derek.)
4) Where a Quinta name is used by a shipper as a brand name or a marketing name, eg. as a second label port, this will be included on the list. For example, Grahams Malvedos or Noval Silval

There were some other specific questions that appeared this afternoon and I will do my best to answer them when I get some time tomorrow morning.

Alex

[DRT]

Are we going to concern ourselves with the fact that Ramos Pinto is actually Ramos-Pinto?

Derek

[jdaw1]

Noval Silval
Quinta do Noval (Quinta do Silval)
Magalhães (Quinta do Noval)

OK, so with this new information I think we need:

• Quinta do Noval (produced from only the Noval vineyard)
• Noval (Noval’s main brand, also using other grapes);
• Noval Silval (Noval’s secondary brand);
• Noval Nacional (Noval’s expensive brand);
• (Quinta do?) Noval Quinta do Silval (produced only from the Noval’s corner of the Silval vineyard);
• Magalhães (from the man who owns the non-Noval part of Silval).

No trouble at all.
1. Please, have I—at last—understood?
2. And if I have, should it be “Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval† or “Noval Quinta do Silval†? And if so, which is preferred: with or without the “Quinta do†?
3. And should we fold together the “Quinta do Noval† and “Noval†, as only one is used for VP, and only for for non-VP port types.

[jdaw1]

Are we going to concern ourselves with the fact that Ramos Pinto is actually Ramos-Pinto?

I am embarrassed that I have hitherto failed to notice the hyphen. Yes, definitely “Ramos-Pinto†. {Sackcloth and ashes emoticon}

[DRT]

Noval Silval
Quinta do Noval (Quinta do Silval)
Magalhães (Quinta do Noval)

OK, so with this new information I think we need:

• Quinta do Noval (produced from only the Noval vineyard)
• Noval (Noval’s main brand, also using other grapes);
• Noval Silval (Noval’s secondary brand);
• Noval Nacional (Noval’s expensive brand);
• (Quinta do?) Noval Quinta do Silval (produced only from the Noval’s corner of the Silval vineyard);
• Magalhães (from the man who owns the non-Noval part of Silval).

No trouble at all. Please, have I—at last—understood? And if I have, should it be “Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval† or “Noval Quinta do Silval†?

Jdaw,

In a list solely dedicated to VP, which wine(s) would be list under:

Quinta do Noval; and,
Noval

I think the simple Noval is redundant in this list as it will never include a VP.

If we ignore the Q d Silval and Q d Marco anomolies for one moment, I think the three principal VPs produced by Noval today need to appear together in the list with the following display names in this order:

Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

This would require the sort names to be:

Noval
Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

Derek

[DRT]

Are we going to concern ourselves with the fact that Ramos Pinto is actually Ramos-Pinto?

I am embarrassed that I have hitherto failed to notice the hyphen. Yes, definitely “Ramos-Pinto†. {Sackcloth and ashes emoticon}

I have been wanting to post that question since we started this process but have resisted on the basis that the longer you went without noticing the more ashes you would require for your emoticon.

{very smug emoticon}

[jdaw1]

If we ignore the Q d Silval and Q d Marco anomolies for one moment, I think the three principal VPs produced by Noval today need to appear together in the list with the following display names in this order:

Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

This would require the sort names to be:

Noval
Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

Very good. But please don’t ignore the anomalies: post the full list just so that it’s very clear.

(And I am going to introduce a notes field, to help avoid errors.)

[DRT]

If we ignore the Q d Silval and Q d Marco anomolies for one moment, I think the three principal VPs produced by Noval today need to appear together in the list with the following display names in this order:

Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

This would require the sort names to be:

Noval
Noval Nacional
Noval Silval

Very good. But please don’t ignore the anomalies: post the full list just so that it’s very clear.

Progress.

Now, moving on to the anomilys:

DisplayName:

• Quinta do Noval
• Quinta do Noval Nacional
• Noval Silval
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta de Marco
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta do Silval

SortName:

• Noval
• Noval Nacional
• Noval Silval
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta de Marco
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta do Silval

OK?

[jdaw1]

DisplayName:

• Quinta do Noval
• Quinta do Noval Nacional
• Noval Silval
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta de Marco
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta do Silval

When you say “Marco†, is it a humorous reference to “Magalhães†? Or have I missed something?

[jdaw1]

Some off-topic arguing split into new thread OTBPGCBA?.

[Alex Bridgeman]

DisplayName:

• Quinta do Noval
• Quinta do Noval Nacional
• Noval Silval
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta de Marco
• .
• .
• .
• Quinta do Silval

When you say “Marco†, is it a humorous reference to “Magalhães†? Or have I missed something?

You've missed something. On FTLOP, Andy has posted some pictures of a bottle he bought that was Noval Quinta do Marco, being some VP that Noval made in pre-AXA days from grapes purely sourced from the Quinta do Marco vineyards.

Using the logic I set out in my summary above and which Derek followed in his guidance for Noval, this should appear in our listing as "Quinta do Marco" with no association to the person who just happened to buy the grapes at the time (such associations to be established in Part 3 of Project Derek).

Have all other open questions now been answered?

[uncle tom]

The Noval shop in VNG is selling a Q. Marco 1999 as well..

Tom

[jdaw1]

On that bulletin board a follow-up question has been asked. Are Berrys' Selections a relabelling of the original blender's wine, or are they -- in some way -- different wines?

Again, thank you for your help with this historical digging.

They wouldn't be ''relabellings'' necessarily - each vintage we taste a range from different suppliers and select a wine that is most suitable to carry the Berrys' label.

As yet no reply sent. Unless there’s anything else, I’ll just send thanks.

[Alex Bridgeman]

On that bulletin board a follow-up question has been asked. Are Berrys' Selections a relabelling of the original blender's wine, or are they -- in some way -- different wines?

Again, thank you for your help with this historical digging.

They wouldn't be ''relabellings'' necessarily - each vintage we taste a range from different suppliers and select a wine that is most suitable to carry the Berrys' label.

As yet no reply sent. Unless there’s anything else, I’ll just send thanks.

Nothing else from me. Interestingly, I've been told in the past by Berry's that the wine in their bottles is exactly the same blend as made by the shipper - that you get the same port in a bottle of Berry 1983 as you do in a Warre 1983, for example. While this doesn't conflict with Tom's response, I'm not sure it's entirely consistent either.

Perhaps a theme to carry forward to a future tasting...

[Andy Velebil]

Here is some info to help out with the dreaded Noval/Silval/Marco issues

Regarding the 1983 Noval Quinta do Marco

Well... I did get a chance to briefly talk to Christian Seely today.

He is indeed familiar with the Quinta do Marco bottlings. He mentioned that Noval would occaisonaly produce these bottlings and that Quinta do Marco is a sub-vineyard within Quinta do Noval. He also mentioned that these bottlings were lighter, easier drinking wines that are ment for earlier consumption... in other words... drink up.

Regarding the 1983 Noval Qiunta do Silval

It happens that Quinta-do-Noval owns a small plot inside the Quinta-do-Silval area. Even today this happens to be a fact.

The brand Silval was registered by the Noval owners (Cristiano van Zeller) in the past and that had happened several years before Quinta-do-Silval itself started bottling their own Ports.

read the debate here (if its ok to link it, due to the issue at hand) http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopfo ... &sk=t&sd=a

[KillerB]

Andy - we have no issues with links. This is particularly useful so thank you.

[jdaw1]

Extracted from the recently-updated list above:

• Abbrev.; Sortable; Display Name
• Mg; Magalhaes; Magalhães;
• NN; Nacional; Quinta do Noval Nacional;
• N; Noval; Quinta do Noval;
• NSv; Noval 2; Noval Silval;
• NM; Noval Marco; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco;
• NS; Noval Silval; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval;

The only outstanding question is whether Nacional should sort with Noval, or with the Na’s. I.e., before or after Niepoort?

[jdaw1]

A very frightening list of wine producers in Portugal, and their ISWN-P numbers (International Standard Wine Number - Producer). The table of names is starting to gather ISWN-Ps.

Why, for example, are there both Borges and Borges & Irmao?

[uncle tom]

I did a list a fair while back of vintage port brands known to exist (or have existed) and came to 173, but I now know of quite a few more...

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

Extracted from the recently-updated list above:

• Abbrev.; Sortable; Display Name
• Mg; Magalhaes; Magalhães;
• NN; Nacional; Quinta do Noval Nacional;
• N; Noval; Quinta do Noval;
• NSv; Noval 2; Noval Silval;
• NM; Noval Marco; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco;
• NS; Noval Silval; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval;

The only outstanding question is whether Nacional should sort with Noval, or with the Na’s. I.e., before or after Niepoort?

My preference would be for the Nacional to sort with the Noval rather than alphabetically.

[DRT]

Extracted from the recently-updated list above:

• Abbrev.; Sortable; Display Name
• Mg; Magalhaes; Magalhães;
• NN; Nacional; Quinta do Noval Nacional;
• N; Noval; Quinta do Noval;
• NSv; Noval 2; Noval Silval;
• NM; Noval Marco; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco;
• NS; Noval Silval; Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval;

The only outstanding question is whether Nacional should sort with Noval, or with the Na’s. I.e., before or after Niepoort?

My preference would be for the Nacional to sort with the Noval rather than alphabetically.

I have a very strong preference to have Nacional appear with at least the woud Noval in from of it. I have a less strong preference for it to have the words "Quinta do Noval" in front of it. These preferences relate to display names.

Derek

[jdaw1]

TN index update, which, for the first time, is being merged with the port names spreadsheet. Ouch!

• Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve: does anybody have a (complete-ish) list of the names of this type of port?

• How to name of Tesco VP (Symington)? This year Symington, next year TFP? What do we call the ‘house’?

• Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)? Even without the typos.

• Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port: list of white names?

[JacobH]

I’ll go for the easy question

• Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port: list of white names?

Theoretically, going from sweet to dry there are: Lagrima; Sweet; Medium Sweet; Dry; Leve Seco (which is unfortified); and Extra Dry but I think several of these styles are only produced in minute quantities (if at all). There are also a couple of white colheitas, which I believe Derek would prefer be catalogued under “Colheita† rather than “White†.

[DRT]

There are also a couple of white colheitas, which I believe Derek would prefer be catalogued under “Colheita† rather than “White†.

That is indeed my preferrence but am happy to go with what the majority believe is the most logical. Perhaps oddities such as this and some of the others discussed here need to be catalogued in more than one place to ensure people can find them regardless of the search vriteria used?

[JacobH]

That is indeed my preferrence but am happy to go with what the majority believe is the most logical. Perhaps oddities such as this and some of the others discussed here need to be catalogued in more than one place to ensure people can find them regardless of the search vriteria used?

That would make sense. Or perhaps an “oddities† category? In any case, so few of these are produced that I would have though anyone looking for a note on them would not be put off if it were not obvious.

[DRT]

I would have though anyone looking for a note on them would not be put off if it were not obvious.

Very true, but what if they were not actually looking for that specific wine? A case in point would be Dalva White Colheita 1952. Imagine how miserable life would be if it were only listed under White ports and Colheita lovers browsing Colheita TN's didn't find out about it's existence

Incidentally, Dalva White Colheita is dark brown

Derek

[JacobH]

Very true, but what if they were not actually looking for that specific wine? A case in point would be Dalva White Colheita 1952. Imagine how miserable life would be if it were only listed under White ports and Colheita lovers browsing Colheita TN's didn't find out about it's existence

Incidentally, Dalva White Colheita is dark brown

Not necessary. If colheita lovers do not know of the existence of these wines, there will be less demand which will, in turn, result in lower prices for those who do know about them, thus making their lives considerably less miserable.

PS. You may wish to remove the second apostrophe before jdaw1 reads this post

[DRT]

Very true, but what if they were not actually looking for that specific wine? A case in point would be Dalva White Colheita 1952. Imagine how miserable life would be if it were only listed under White ports and Colheita lovers browsing Colheita TN's didn't find out about it's existence

Incidentally, Dalva White Colheita is dark brown

Not necessary. If colheita lovers do not know of the existence of these wines, there will be less demand which will, in turn, result in lower prices for those who do know about them, thus making their lives considerably less miserable.

Fair point. Please index it as Dalva White

PS. You may wish to remove the second apostrophe before jdaw1 reads this post

Nah. It makes him feel helpful.

[jdaw1]

Don’t forget the TN index is text, in consecutive posts (indeed, in the only posts in that thread). So provided the name contains the relevant words, Control-F (or ⌘F) should do the job. So the question really asks for two things:
• What should it be named (e.g., “Dalva Golden White colheita†);
• What should it be named for the purpose of alphabetical sorting (e.g., “Javali† for “Quinta do Javali†)?

The new TN index will also feature links to each house’s own website, where known.

[DRT]

What should it be named (e.g., “Dalva Golden White colheita†)

I don't think anyone would mind if you simply chose an appropriate name which was representative of what is stated on the label. Although, in the example given I would use an upper case C[/quote]

What should it be named for the purpose of alphabetical sorting (e.g., “Javali† for “Quinta do Javali†)?

I think it "Quinta d?(?)" should be removed for sorting purposes.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Here are my proposals:
…
Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "colheita" (ideally spelt this way) without a capital letter

Other opinions on the capitalisation of “colheita†?

Also, don’t lose track of my other questions:

TN index update, which, for the first time, is being merged with the port names spreadsheet. Ouch!

• Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve: does anybody have a (complete-ish) list of the names of this type of port?

• How to name of Tesco VP (Symington)? This year Symington, next year TFP? What do we call the ‘house’?

• Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)? Even without the typos.

• Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port: list of white names?

(I’m trying to write databases and code that automagically parse typed approximate names into the definitive version.)

[jdaw1]

Hurray for me: my auto-tidying machine no longer ‘corrects’ “Cockburn's Fine Ruby† to “Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta†!

(Don’t ask: a missing dereference.)

[Alex Bridgeman]

Also, don’t lose track of my other questions:

TN index update, which, for the first time, is being merged with the port names spreadsheet. Ouch!

• Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve: does anybody have a (complete-ish) list of the names of this type of port?

Next time I pop into the supermarket, I'll write down all I can see.

• How to name of Tesco VP (Symington)? This year Symington, next year TFP? What do we call the ‘house’?

I suggest that this be called "Tesco". In effect, this is simply the modern version of the formation of a new shipper that we last saw 200 years ago. A merchant (in this case specialising in food) has decided to branch out into shipping port and visits a number of growers before selecting a handful of their wines to be blended together into a port on which they will put their name. Alternatively, and much less preferred by me, call it by the name of the producer with a note that this is the Tesco version. For example "Symington 1994 vintage port (Tesco blend)". Consider it the Symington analogy to Portal+ or Niepoort's Petre.

• Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)? Even without the typos.

Hrmphh. Honorable Tawny?

• Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port: list of white names?

(I’m trying to write databases and code that automagically parse typed approximate names into the definitive version.)

Can't help here. Sorry.

[jdaw1]

Here are some examples of what the auto-name-tidier does. There will be errors. Tell me and there will, eventually, be fewer errors.

[I’ve seen a problem with Noval Silval. Remind me what the answer should be given that description? And there will be more problems with auto-parsing TPFites’ typing.]

“?† “Unknown vintage port†
“Vista Alegre LBV† “Unknown LBV†
“Novals unfiltered LBV† “Unknown LBV†
“Andresen LBV (unfiltered)† “Andresen LBV†
“Berry Brothers Selection vintage port† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage port†
“Berry’s Vintage Character† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage character†
“Borges† “Borges & Irmão vintage port†
“Burmester Vintage Port† “Burmester vintage port†
“Burmester LBV (unfiltered)† “Burmester LBV†
“Calem Colheita† “Cálem colheita†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill vintage port† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s Quinta da Agua Alta† “Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta vintage port†
“Quinta do Fojo† “Churchill Quinta do Fojo vintage port†
“Churchill’s LBV† “Churchill LBV†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn's LBV (Filtered)† “Cockburn LBV†
“Cockburn Special Reserve† “Cockburn Reserve†
“Cockburn's Fine Ruby† “Cockburn ruby†
“Croft vintage port† “Croft vintage port†
“Croft Vintage Port† “Croft vintage port†
“Crofts Pink Liquid† “Croft pink†
“Croft Platinum Reserve† “Croft Reserve†
“Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve† “Croft Reserve†
“Quinta da Roeda (Croft) Vintage Port† “Croft Quinta da Roeda vintage port†
“Gran Cruz† “Cruz vintage port†
“Porto Cruz tawny† “Cruz tawny†
“Dalva vintage port† “Dalva (Presidential) vintage port†
“Dalva Golden White colheita† “Dalva (Presidential) colheita†
“Presidential Reserve Golden White Port† “Dalva (Presidential) Reserve†
“Davy’s† “Davy vintage port†
“Delaforce Vintage Port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Delaforce vintage port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Dow VP† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow's Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow vintage port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dows Bomfim VP† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow Quinta do Bomfim Vintage Port† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow's Colheita† “Dow colheita†
“Dow’s Crusted† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's Crusted Port† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's LBV† “Dow LBV†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira vintage port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Fonseca (Magnum)† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca VP† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca Guirmaraens† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca Bin 27† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca Guimaraens VP† “Fonseca Guimaraens vintage port†
“Fonseca Unfiltered LBV† “Fonseca LBV†
“Fonseca Terra Prima Reserve† “Fonseca Reserve†
“Gonzalez Byass Vintage Port† “Gonzalez Byass vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Grahams Vintage Port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's VP† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s Crusted† “Graham crusted†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Grahams LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Grahams Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Reserve† “Graham Reserve†
“Quinta do Infantado Vintage Port† “Quinta do Infantado vintage port†
“Quinta do Infantado LBV (Unfiltered)† “Quinta do Infantado LBV†
“Javali LBV† “Quinta do Javali LBV†
“Kopke Vintage Port† “Kopke vintage port†
“Kopke L.B.V.† “Kopke LBV†
“Kopke Quinta S. Luiz† “Kopke Quinta São Luiz vintage port†
“Krohn’s† “Krohn vintage port†
“Krohn’s Quinta do Retiro Novo† “Krohn Quinta do Retiro Novo vintage port†
“Marks & Spencer LBV† “Marks & Spencer BOB LBV†
“Marks & Spencer’s Pink† “Marks & Spencer BOB pink†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez VP† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez Vintage Port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Quinta do Cachão† “Messias Quinta do Cachão vintage port†
“Morgan vintage port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Morgan's Vintage Port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Noval Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Vintage† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Secundum† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Dry White Port† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort LBV (unfiltered)† “Niepoort LBV†
“Quinta do Passoduoro† “Niepoort Quinta do Passadouro vintage port†
“Niepoort 10yr Tawny, bottled 1983† “Niepoort tawny†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Quinta do Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Quinta do Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval colheita† “Quinta do Noval colheita†
“Noval Crusted† “Quinta do Noval crusted†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Quinto do Noval LB Finest Reserve† “Quinta do Noval Reserve†
“Noval tawny† “Quinta do Noval tawny†
“Offley Boa Vista vintage port† “Offley Boa Vista vintage port†
“Offley L.B.V.† “Offley LBV†
“Pintas from cask† “Pintas vintage port†
“Pocas† “Poças vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto VP† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pintos Collector† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ervamoira (Ramos Pinto) vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto LBV† “Ramos-Pinto LBV†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Rebello VP† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson tawny† “Robertson Rebello Valente tawny†
“Roriz (cask sample)† “Quinta de Roriz vintage port†
“Roriz LBV† “Quinta de Roriz LBV†
“La Rosa Colheita† “Quinta de la Rosa colheita†
“Quinta de la Rosa Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta de la Rosa LBV†
“Royal Oporto vintage port† “Royal Oporto vintage port†
“Quinta das Carvalhas† “Royal Oporto Quinta das Carvalhas vintage port†
“Rozes LBV† “Rozès LBV†
“Rozes 10yr tawny† “Rozès tawny†
“Sandeman Imperial† “Sandeman vintage port†
“São Pedro das Aguias† “Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Aguias vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse, in halves† “Smith Woodhouse vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse Madalena VP† “Smith Woodhouse Madalena vintage port†
“Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)† “Sogevinus Honorable tawny†
“Taylor VP† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor vintage port† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor's LBV† “Taylor LBV†
“Taylor Fladgate tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor's 10 Year Old Tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita SQVP† “Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita vintage port†
“Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vintage Port† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Fladgate Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Vargellas in half† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas VP† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta De Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Tesco’s Symington† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (bottled by Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio VP† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Quinta da Cavadinha† “Warre Quinta da Cavadinha vintage port†
“Warre's Late Bottled Vintage (Bottle Matured)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre traditional LBV† “Warre LBV†
“Warre LBV (special thanks to Killer Bee)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre's LBV (Filtered)† “Warre LBV†

[DRT]

Here are some examples of what the auto-name-tidier does. There will be errors. Tell me and there will, eventually, be fewer errors.

[I’ve seen a problem with Noval Silval. Remind me what the answer should be given that description? And there will be more problems with auto-parsing TPFites’ typing.]

Here are some shamefull errors (without the helpful links and colours):

“?† “Unknown vintage port† - why the link to ?
“Vista Alegre LBV† “Unknown LBV† - why unkown and why the link to ?
“Novals unfiltered LBV† “Unknown LBV† - why unkown and why the link to ?
“Croft Platinum Reserve† “Croft Reserve† - Platinum and Distinction are different wines
“Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve† “Croft Reserve† Platinum and Distinction are different wines
“Dalva Golden White colheita† “Dalva (Presidential) colheita† - needs Golden White in the name
“Presidential Reserve Golden White Port† “Dalva (Presidential) Reserve† - needs Golden White in the name
“Fonseca Guirmaraens† “Fonseca vintage port† - needs Guimareans in the name - this is Fonseca's second label VP
“Fonseca Bin 27† “Fonseca vintage port† - Bin 27 is a Reserve Ruby, not a VP
“Fonseca Terra Prima Reserve† “Fonseca Reserve† - needs Terra Prima in the name. This is their organic wine.
“Niepoort Secundum† “Niepoort vintage port† - needs Secundum in the name. This is a second label VP
“Niepoort Dry White Port† “Niepoort vintage port† - just plain wrong
“Ramos Pintos Collector† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port† - I think Collector is a Reserve or a Tawny, not a VP - suggest Collector appears in the name
“Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port† - you can work this one out for yourself
“Sandeman Imperial† “Sandeman vintage port† - this is a reserve ruby, not a VP
“Taylor's 10 Year Old Tawny† “Taylor tawny† - needs 10 Year Old in the name - other aged tawny variants will need similar treament
“Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port† - needs Vinha Velha in the name

“Warre's Late Bottled Vintage (Bottle Matured)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre traditional LBV† “Warre LBV†
“Warre LBV (special thanks to Killer Bee)† “Warre LBV†

The 3 wines above are all unfiltered LBV. The one below is filtered so they require different descriptions.

“Warre's LBV (Filtered)† “Warre LBV†

I would suggest you standardise Bottle Matured, Unfiltered and Traditional as "Unfiltered"

Now we come to Noval. A very special case and I am sure you can spot the obvious errors yourself from the list below...

“Quinta do Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval Silval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval colheita† “Quinta do Noval colheita†
“Noval Crusted† “Quinta do Noval crusted†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Quinto do Noval LB Finest Reserve† “Quinta do Noval Reserve†
“Noval tawny† “Quinta do Noval tawny†

Here are some tips to help inform the changes to your automagical transmodulator:

Noval use 2 distinct naming conventions for their wines. Wines made entirely from grapes from their Quinta's are labeled as "Quinta do Noval..." whereas wines which include juice from bought in grapes do not use the "Quinta do" part and are labeled "Noval". Here are the product names from the Noval website:

Noval tawny
Noval tawny reserve
Noval 10 year old tawny
Noval 20 year old tawny
Noval 30 year old tawny
Noval 40 year old tawny
Noval fine ruby
Noval special reserve
Noval LB
Noval LBV (u.f.)
Noval LBV
Noval Fine White
Noval Extra Dry White
Noval Lagrima
Noval Silval vintage port
Quinta do Noval colheita
Quinta do Noval vintage port
Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port

In addition to this we know that Noval have produced two SQVPs known as Quinta do Marco and Quinta do Silval. Both of these are labeled under the Quinta do Noval brand as these Quintas were at that time sub-quinta's within the QdN property. These are named:

Quinta do Noval Quinta do Marco vintage port
Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval vintage port

The latter is not the same wine as:

Noval Silval vintage port

OK?

Derek

[jdaw1]

1. If one wanted to know about an unknown vintage port, to what website would one turn? ? Me too. Hence the link. Tell me if you disagree.
2. www.vallegre.pt has both spellings: single- and double-L! Help!
3. “Novals†? Code now replaces this with the singular, in the hope that things improve.
4. “Platinum and Distinction are different wines†. Progress: please, I did ask “does anybody have a (complete-ish) list of the names of this type of port?† Add to your list.
5. “Dalva (Presidential) colheita†: yes, I’m having trouble making it do this. I might declare that “Golden White† is a type of port. (Actually, no: are there both “Golden White†s and “Golden White colheita†s?)
6. “Guirmaraens† wasn’t known to my machine. It’s been taught the mis-spelling.
7. “Bin 27†. Did someone ask “does anybody have a (complete-ish) list of the names of this type of port?†? I did know this one, but forgot to add it.
8. www.fonseca.pt/index_.htm doesn’t mention “Terra Prima†, but added anyway.
9. “Secundum† added.
10. Dry Whites: having general trouble with dry whites. Same for “Lagrima†.
11. “Ramos Pintos Collector†: did someone ask…
12. “Sandeman Imperial†. Did…
13. “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha†? The database looks like it ought to be working. Programming bug I reckon. On the case. [Edit: must check for “Vinha Velha† ***before*** checking for “Vargellas†. Fixed.]
14. “I would suggest you standardise Bottle Matured, Unfiltered and Traditional as "Unfiltered"†. Elsewhere it was suggested that all LBVs be filed under LBVs. Easier for me. If you wish to persist with this, requires a wider consensus.
15. Noval is a nightmare to parse automatically. Improvements implemented. Thread titles might need active management.

Reserves:
• Croft Platinum;
• Croft Distinction;
• Fonseca Bin 27;
• Ramos-Pinto Collector;
• Sandeman Imperial.
Are all the names in this list accurate? Any extras to add?

[jdaw1]

After DRT’s comment above: some examples of what the auto-name-tidier does. There will still be errors. Tell me and there will, eventually, be fewer errors.

I know that I have problems with whites. And are “Dalva Golden White colheita† and “Dalva Golden White Reserve† the same thing?

Derek: you once tasted 1989 Quinta do Fojo Vintage Port. This Quinta is owned by Churchill, but Ch denies ever having made a QdF. Please tell us more. Did you photograph the label?

“?† “Unknown vintage port†
“Andresen LBV (unfiltered)† “Andresen LBV†
“Berry Brothers Selection vintage port† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage port†
“Berry’s Vintage Character† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage character†
“Borges† “Borges & Irmão vintage port†
“Burmester Vintage Port† “Burmester vintage port†
“Burmester LBV (unfiltered)† “Burmester LBV†
“Calem Colheita† “Cálem colheita†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill vintage port† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s Quinta da Agua Alta† “Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta vintage port†
“Quinta do Fojo† “Churchill Quinta do Fojo vintage port†
“Churchill’s LBV† “Churchill LBV†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn's LBV (Filtered)† “Cockburn LBV†
“Cockburn Special Reserve† “Cockburn Reserve†
“Cockburn's Fine Ruby† “Cockburn ruby†
“Croft vintage port† “Croft vintage port†
“Croft Vintage Port† “Croft vintage port†
“Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve† “Croft Distinction Reserve Reserve†
“Crofts Pink Liquid† “Croft pink†
“Croft Platinum Reserve† “Croft Platinum Reserve Reserve†
“Quinta da Roeda (Croft) Vintage Port† “Croft Quinta da Roeda vintage port†
“Gran Cruz† “Cruz vintage port†
“Porto Cruz tawny† “Cruz tawny†
“Dalva vintage port† “Dalva (Presidential) vintage port†
“Dalva Golden White colheita† “Dalva (Presidential) Golden White Golden White colheita†
“Presidential Reserve Golden White Port† “Dalva (Presidential) Golden White Golden White Reserve†
“Davy’s† “Davy vintage port†
“Delaforce Vintage Port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Delaforce vintage port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Dow VP† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow's Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow vintage port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dows Bomfim VP† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow Quinta do Bomfim Vintage Port† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow's Colheita† “Dow colheita†
“Dow’s Crusted† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's Crusted Port† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's LBV† “Dow LBV†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira vintage port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Fonseca (Magnum)† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca VP† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca Bin 27† “Fonseca Bin 27 Reserve†
“Fonseca Guirmaraens† “Fonseca Guimaraens vintage port†
“Fonseca Guimaraens VP† “Fonseca Guimaraens vintage port†
“Fonseca Unfiltered LBV† “Fonseca LBV†
“Gonzalez Byass Vintage Port† “Gonzalez Byass vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Grahams Vintage Port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's VP† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s Crusted† “Graham crusted†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Grahams LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Grahams Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Reserve† “Graham Reserve†
“Quinta do Infantado Vintage Port† “Quinta do Infantado vintage port†
“Quinta do Infantado LBV (Unfiltered)† “Quinta do Infantado LBV†
“Javali LBV† “Quinta do Javali LBV†
“Kopke Vintage Port† “Kopke vintage port†
“Kopke L.B.V.† “Kopke LBV†
“Kopke Quinta S. Luiz† “Kopke Quinta São Luiz vintage port†
“Krohn’s† “Krohn vintage port†
“Krohn’s Quinta do Retiro Novo† “Krohn Quinta do Retiro Novo vintage port†
“Marks & Spencer LBV† “Marks & Spencer BOB LBV†
“Marks & Spencer’s Pink† “Marks & Spencer BOB pink†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez VP† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez Vintage Port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Quinta do Cachão† “Messias Quinta do Cachão vintage port†
“Morgan vintage port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Morgan's Vintage Port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Noval Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Vintage† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Dry White Port† “Niepoort dry white†
“Niepoort LBV (unfiltered)† “Niepoort LBV†
“Quinta do Passoduoro† “Niepoort Quinta do Passadouro vintage port†
“Niepoort 10yr Tawny, bottled 1983† “Niepoort tawny†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Quinta do Noval Silval† “Noval Silval vintage port†
“Noval colheita† “Quinta do Noval colheita†
“Noval Crusted† “Quinta do Noval crusted†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Novals unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Quinto do Noval LB Finest Reserve† “Quinta do Noval Reserve†
“Noval tawny† “Quinta do Noval tawny†
“Offley Boa Vista vintage port† “Offley Boa Vista vintage port†
“Offley L.B.V.† “Offley LBV†
“Pintas from cask† “Pintas vintage port†
“Pocas† “Poças vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto VP† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pintos Collector† “Ramos-Pinto Collector Reserve†
“Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ervamoira (Ramos Pinto) vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto LBV† “Ramos-Pinto LBV†
“Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port† “Ramos-Pinto white port†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Rebello VP† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson tawny† “Robertson Rebello Valente tawny†
“Roriz (cask sample)† “Quinta de Roriz vintage port†
“Roriz LBV† “Quinta de Roriz LBV†
“La Rosa Colheita† “Quinta de la Rosa colheita†
“Quinta de la Rosa Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta de la Rosa LBV†
“Royal Oporto vintage port† “Royal Oporto vintage port†
“Quinta das Carvalhas† “Royal Oporto Quinta das Carvalhas vintage port†
“Rozes LBV† “Rozès LBV†
“Rozes 10yr tawny† “Rozès tawny†
“Sandeman Imperial† “Sandeman Imperial Reserve†
“São Pedro das Aguias† “Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Aguias vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse, in halves† “Smith Woodhouse vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse Madalena VP† “Smith Woodhouse Madalena vintage port†
“Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)† “Sogevinus Honorable tawny†
“Taylor VP† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor vintage port† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor's LBV† “Taylor LBV†
“Taylor Fladgate tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor's 10 Year Old Tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita SQVP† “Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita vintage port†
“Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vintage Port† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Fladgate Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Vargellas in half† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas VP† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta De Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Tesco’s Symington† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (bottled by Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio VP† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Vista Alegre LBV† “Quinta da Vista Allegre LBV†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Quinta da Cavadinha† “Warre Quinta da Cavadinha vintage port†
“Warre's Late Bottled Vintage (Bottle Matured)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre traditional LBV† “Warre LBV†
“Warre LBV (special thanks to Killer Bee)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre's LBV (Filtered)† “Warre LBV†

[DRT]

Derek: you once tasted 1989 Quinta do Fojo Vintage Port. This Quinta is owned by Churchill, but Ch denies ever having made a QdF. Please tell us more. Did you photograph the label?

Unfortunately not. I know where I bought it from and I think I can access my previous order records online but not from this location. I will check tonight and provide more info.

Is it possible that Churchill have only bought the Quinta in recent years?

derek

[jdaw1]

After DRT’s comments above: some examples of what the auto-name-tidier does. There will still be errors. Tell me and there will, eventually, be fewer errors.

Fojo deChurchillified.

“?† “Unknown vintage port†
“Andresen LBV (unfiltered)† “Andresen LBV†
“Berry Brothers Selection vintage port† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage port†
“Berry’s Vintage Character† “Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection vintage character†
“Borges† “Borges & Irmão vintage port†
“Burmester Vintage Port† “Burmester vintage port†
“Burmester LBV (unfiltered)† “Burmester LBV†
“Calem Colheita† “Cálem colheita†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill vintage port† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s† “Churchill vintage port†
“Churchill’s Quinta da Agua Alta† “Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta vintage port†
“Churchill’s LBV† “Churchill LBV†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn VP† “Cockburn vintage port†
“Cockburn's LBV (Filtered)† “Cockburn LBV†
“Cockburn Special Reserve† “Cockburn Reserve†
“Cockburn's Fine Ruby† “Cockburn ruby†
“Croft vintage port† “Croft vintage port†
“Croft Vintage Port† “Croft vintage port†
“Croft Distinction Porto Special Reserve† “Croft Distinction Reserve†
“Crofts Pink Liquid† “Croft pink†
“Quinta da Roeda (Croft) Vintage Port† “Croft Quinta da Roeda vintage port†
“Gran Cruz† “Cruz vintage port†
“Porto Cruz tawny† “Cruz tawny†
“Dalva vintage port† “Dalva (Presidential) vintage port†
“Dalva Golden White colheita† “Dalva (Presidential) Golden White colheita†
“Presidential Reserve Golden White Port† “Dalva (Presidential) Golden White Reserve†
“Davy’s† “Davy vintage port†
“Delaforce Vintage Port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Delaforce vintage port† “Delaforce vintage port†
“Dow VP† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow's Vintage Port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dow vintage port† “Dow vintage port†
“Dows Bomfim VP† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow Quinta do Bomfim Vintage Port† “Dow Quinta do Bomfim vintage port†
“Dow's Colheita† “Dow colheita†
“Dow’s Crusted† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's Crusted Port† “Dow crusted†
“Dow's LBV† “Dow LBV†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira vintage port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira VP† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Ferreira Vintage Port† “Ferreira vintage port†
“Fonseca (Magnum)† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca VP† “Fonseca vintage port†
“Fonseca Bin 27† “Fonseca Bin 27 Reserve†
“Fonseca Guirmaraens† “Fonseca Guimaraens vintage port†
“Fonseca Guimaraens VP† “Fonseca Guimaraens vintage port†
“Fonseca Unfiltered LBV† “Fonseca LBV†
“Gonzalez Byass Vintage Port† “Gonzalez Byass vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham vintage port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Grahams Vintage Port† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham's VP† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s† “Graham vintage port†
“Graham’s Crusted† “Graham crusted†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Grahams LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s LBV† “Graham LBV†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Grahams Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos VP† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham's Malvedos† “Graham Malvedos vintage port†
“Graham’s Reserve† “Graham Reserve†
“Quinta do Infantado Vintage Port† “Quinta do Infantado vintage port†
“Quinta do Infantado LBV (Unfiltered)† “Quinta do Infantado LBV†
“Javali LBV† “Quinta do Javali LBV†
“Kopke Vintage Port† “Kopke vintage port†
“Kopke L.B.V.† “Kopke LBV†
“Kopke Quinta S. Luiz† “Kopke Quinta São Luiz vintage port†
“Krohn’s† “Krohn vintage port†
“Krohn’s Quinta do Retiro Novo† “Krohn Quinta do Retiro Novo vintage port†
“Marks & Spencer LBV† “Marks & Spencer BOB LBV†
“Marks & Spencer’s Pink† “Marks & Spencer BOB pink†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez VP† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez vintage port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez Vintage Port† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Martinez† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Harvey’s (Martinez)† “Martinez (Harvey) vintage port†
“Quinta do Cachão† “Messias Quinta do Cachão vintage port†
“Morgan vintage port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Morgan's Vintage Port† “Morgan vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Noval Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Nacional† “Quinta do Noval Nacional vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Vintage† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort VP† “Niepoort vintage port†
“Niepoort Dry White Port† “Niepoort dry white†
“Niepoort LBV (unfiltered)† “Niepoort LBV†
“Quinta do Passoduoro† “Niepoort Quinta do Passadouro vintage port†
“Niepoort 10yr Tawny, bottled 1983† “Niepoort tawny†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Noval† “Quinta do Noval vintage port†
“Quinta do Noval Silval† “Noval Silval vintage port†
“Noval colheita† “Quinta do Noval colheita†
“Noval Crusted† “Quinta do Noval crusted†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Novals unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Noval Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta do Noval LBV†
“Quinto do Noval LB Finest Reserve† “Quinta do Noval Reserve†
“Noval tawny† “Quinta do Noval tawny†
“Offley Boa Vista vintage port† “Offley Boa Vista vintage port†
“Offley L.B.V.† “Offley LBV†
“Pintas from cask† “Pintas vintage port†
“Pocas† “Poças vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto VP† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto† “Ramos-Pinto vintage port†
“Ramos Pintos Collector† “Ramos-Pinto Collector Reserve†
“Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ervamoira (Ramos Pinto) vintage port† “Ramos-Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira vintage port†
“Ramos Pinto LBV† “Ramos-Pinto LBV†
“Ramos Pinto Lagrima White Port† “Ramos-Pinto white port†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Rebello VP† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson’s Rebello Valente† “Robertson Rebello Valente vintage port†
“Robertson tawny† “Robertson Rebello Valente tawny†
“Roriz (cask sample)† “Quinta de Roriz vintage port†
“Roriz LBV† “Quinta de Roriz LBV†
“La Rosa Colheita† “Quinta de la Rosa colheita†
“Quinta de la Rosa Unfiltered LBV† “Quinta de la Rosa LBV†
“Royal Oporto vintage port† “Royal Oporto vintage port†
“Quinta das Carvalhas† “Royal Oporto Quinta das Carvalhas vintage port†
“Rozes LBV† “Rozès LBV†
“Rozes 10yr tawny† “Rozès tawny†
“Sandeman Imperial† “Sandeman Imperial Reserve†
“São Pedro das Aguias† “Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Aguias vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse, in halves† “Smith Woodhouse vintage port†
“Smith Woodhouse Madalena VP† “Smith Woodhouse Madalena vintage port†
“Honorable Tawny (Sogevinus)† “Sogevinus Honorable tawny†
“Taylor VP† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor vintage port† “Taylor vintage port†
“Taylor's LBV† “Taylor LBV†
“Taylor Fladgate tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor's 10 Year Old Tawny† “Taylor tawny†
“Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita SQVP† “Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita vintage port†
“Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vintage Port† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Fladgate Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor Vargellas in half† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas VP† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Quinta de Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Taylor's Quinta De Vargellas† “Taylor Quinta de Vargellas vintage port†
“Tesco’s Symington† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (bottled by Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Tesco VP (Symington)† “Tesco BOB vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Quinta do Vesuvio VP† “Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port†
“Vista Alegre LBV† “Quinta da Vista Allegre LBV†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre's VP† “Warre vintage port†
“Warre vintage port† “Warre vintage port†
“Quinta da Cavadinha† “Warre Quinta da Cavadinha vintage port†
“Warre's Late Bottled Vintage (Bottle Matured)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre traditional LBV† “Warre LBV†
“Warre LBV (special thanks to Killer Bee)† “Warre LBV†
“Warre's LBV (Filtered)† “Warre LBV†

[DRT]

Derek: you once tasted 1989 Quinta do Fojo Vintage Port. This Quinta is owned by Churchill, but Ch denies ever having made a QdF. Please tell us more. Did you photograph the label?

Unfortunately not. I know where I bought it from and I think I can access my previous order records online but not from this location. I will check tonight and provide more info.

Is it possible that Churchill have only bought the Quinta in recent years?

derek

Quinta do Fojo is owned by the Borges family and supplies a number of shippers, including Churchill. I cannot trace any sign of the order I placed for the Fojo 1989 but have emailed the supplier to see if they have any more

[Alex Bridgeman]

“I would suggest you standardise Bottle Matured, Unfiltered and Traditional as "Unfiltered"†. Elsewhere it was suggested that all LBVs be filed under LBVs. Easier for me. If you wish to persist with this, requires a wider consensus.

I was the main proponent of the move not to distinguish between styles of LBV in the name. For me, I would prefer to be able to see in the index all styles of LBV in one list and then to see which it was when looking at the tasting note itself.

Alex

[DRT]

“I would suggest you standardise Bottle Matured, Unfiltered and Traditional as "Unfiltered"†. Elsewhere it was suggested that all LBVs be filed under LBVs. Easier for me. If you wish to persist with this, requires a wider consensus.

I was the main proponent of the move not to distinguish between styles of LBV in the name. For me, I would prefer to be able to see in the index all styles of LBV in one list and then to see which it was when looking at the tasting note itself.

Alex

I'm fine with that logic so withdraw my proposal.

[DRT]

I found this thread this evening whilst trying to reconcile the names "Porto Pocas", "Pocas Junior" and Pocas Director's Choice".

My conclusion is that they are all just "Pocas" - i.e. the same wine with different brand names.

However, the main reason for this post is to let you all know that this conversation has continued between JDAW and I on email on an almost daily basis since the last post on Independence Day 2008.


...and, yes, Pocas should have a squiggle under the c.

[jdaw1]

Much conversation has indeed ensued: Poças.