Keeping tabs on other types of port.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Keeping tabs on other types of port.
We're pretty well informed regarding vintage port, and the vintage ports made in years past, but the other types of port seem to get lost to history with indecent speed.
Is it worth maintaining a database of the shippers other products?
It occurs to me that a simple matrix of producers and product classes, with each cell listing brand name(s) together with launch dates (and discontinuation dates) would not be too difficult to establish. The producers could be asked to include us on their mailing list when launching new products, and historical information could be added when it became available.
Is this worth doing?
Tom
Is it worth maintaining a database of the shippers other products?
It occurs to me that a simple matrix of producers and product classes, with each cell listing brand name(s) together with launch dates (and discontinuation dates) would not be too difficult to establish. The producers could be asked to include us on their mailing list when launching new products, and historical information could be added when it became available.
Is this worth doing?
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
Please help us think about this by posting an example — even if only using fake data.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
I was thinking along the lines of a spreadsheet, with the shippers/brands on one axis and the types on the other - for example you might look up Reserves on one axis and Cockburn on the other, and get an entry that might read:
Special Reserve, (1976? - present day)
Alternatively you might look up Crusted and Fonseca, and find an entry that read:
Known bottling dates: None prior to 2004 (also bottled that year under the Wine Society label)
Or LBV and Vesuvio:
No record of production
I'm not sure how best to link a spreadsheet with the php platform however, is it possible to incorporate drop-downs referencing a remote spreadsheet?
Tom
Special Reserve, (1976? - present day)
Alternatively you might look up Crusted and Fonseca, and find an entry that read:
Known bottling dates: None prior to 2004 (also bottled that year under the Wine Society label)
Or LBV and Vesuvio:
No record of production
I'm not sure how best to link a spreadsheet with the php platform however, is it possible to incorporate drop-downs referencing a remote spreadsheet?
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Keeping tabs on other types of port.
- Reserves
- Cockburn: Special Reserve, (1976? - present day);
- Taylor: …
- Crusted
- Fonseca: Known bottling dates: None prior to 2004 (also bottled that year under the Wine Society label);
- Late Bottled Vintage = LBV
- Vesuvio: No record of production.
- JacobH
- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
This sounds like an excellent idea. I do wonder, though, whether the historic data might be a bit awkward due to the constant changes in naming regulations for non-Vintage Port which may not correspond to changes to the content of the bottles (e.g. when “Vintage Character† was banned, did any shippers change their wines when rebranding them as “Reserve†?).uncle tom wrote:It occurs to me that a simple matrix of producers and product classes, with each cell listing brand name(s) together with launch dates (and discontinuation dates) would not be too difficult to establish. The producers could be asked to include us on their mailing list when launching new products, and historical information could be added when it became available.
-Jacob
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
For the types, I have seventeen styles, including one obsolete style which needs to be included for historical purposes (vintage character), and a catch-all 'Special' for anything that doesn't seem to fit.
Are there now categories for whites with indication of age? I'm not quite clear about recent changes on that front.
Of the premium styles, Vintage can be left out, and I don't think we need to make a distinction for those that have the words 'bottle matured' on the label, as they all get bottle matured over time!
As there is no clear change-over point, I think we should use the current term 'unfiltered' for unfiltered LBV's, with the now outlawed term 'traditional' added in parentheses.
So my list goes:
Standard Ruby
Standard Tawny
Standard White
Reserve
Tawny reserve
White reserve
Unfiltered LBV (Traditional)
Filtered LBV
Crusted
Vintage character
10yr Tawny
20yr Tawny
30yr Tawny
40yr Tawny
Colheita
Garrafeira
Special
Have I missed any?
Tom
Are there now categories for whites with indication of age? I'm not quite clear about recent changes on that front.
Of the premium styles, Vintage can be left out, and I don't think we need to make a distinction for those that have the words 'bottle matured' on the label, as they all get bottle matured over time!
As there is no clear change-over point, I think we should use the current term 'unfiltered' for unfiltered LBV's, with the now outlawed term 'traditional' added in parentheses.
So my list goes:
Standard Ruby
Standard Tawny
Standard White
Reserve
Tawny reserve
White reserve
Unfiltered LBV (Traditional)
Filtered LBV
Crusted
Vintage character
10yr Tawny
20yr Tawny
30yr Tawny
40yr Tawny
Colheita
Garrafeira
Special
Have I missed any?
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- JacobH
- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
When we discussed this for my script (here) we also added White Colheita (or Colheita (White)) and Pink (possibly as a subset of Ruby). I’m not sure what the official line on aged Whites is, but it might make sense to take the de-facto line and include them anyway.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
How could i forget that...and Pink
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
I've just spent some time burrowing into the little recesses of the IVDP site in search of a definitive list of approved port types, but to no avail.
Does anyone have an up-to-date list of port products that can carry the guarantee seal - especially the variants of white port, which I believe have been extended fairly recently.
Tom
Does anyone have an up-to-date list of port products that can carry the guarantee seal - especially the variants of white port, which I believe have been extended fairly recently.
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- JacobH
- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
With regards to white port:
-Jacob
which, in my barely-existent Portuguese seems to suggest that they will be allowing tawny-style indication of age on white Port once the formalities to change the IVDP regulations have been completed (though I’m struggling a bit with the tense: it could mean “now that the formalities have been changed...†).Categorias especiais do Vinho do Porto Branco
Os Vinhos do Porto podem ostentar as menções Reserva ou Indicação de Idade (10, 20, 30 ou + 40 anos) desde que cumpridas as formalidades inscritas nos regulamentos do Vinho do Porto sobre esta temática.
-Jacob
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
I tried that text with the Google language tools, and got this:
So that's six varieties of white port to include.
Thanks Jacob
Tom
Although not 100% certain, I would read that as meaning 'yes, provided you make it according to the rule book'Special categories of Port wine White
The Wines of Porto may bear the words Reserve or an indication of age (10, 20, 30 or + 40 years) provided that completion of procedures included in the Regulations of the Port wine on this topic.
So that's six varieties of white port to include.
Thanks Jacob
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- JacobH
- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
Though we could be waiting quite some time before we see a 30 or 40+ year-old white! Indeed, I wonder how many shippers (including Niepoort) have stocks of older white Port to put into their blends? I suspect that most aged white Ports we will see in the immediate future will just be scraping past the age limits.uncle tom wrote:So that's six varieties of white port to include.
Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
This may prove to be very challenging as the same wine can be sold under different descriptions in different markets. But I do think it is a good idea.
I think the producres will have fairly comprehensive data on this, it's just a matter of persuading them to spend a little time giving us it.
I think the producres will have fairly comprehensive data on this, it's just a matter of persuading them to spend a little time giving us it.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- SushiNorth
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
Oh but wait, I've got a fun one...
Quinta de Cabriz (Dão) "Colheita Seleccionada"
Here's a description
I've 2 bottles down in the basement and will open one soon. It's certainly nor port, but a bit confusing in name.
Quinta de Cabriz (Dão) "Colheita Seleccionada"
Here's a description
I've 2 bottles down in the basement and will open one soon. It's certainly nor port, but a bit confusing in name.
Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
"Colheita" just means harvest (or vintage) in Portugese - it's not just a Port term. Colheita Seleccionada then means something along the lines of "harvest select" or "select vintage" and is probably the equivalent of a German Spaetlese or Auslese.
Glenn Elliott
- Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
Would we want to make a distinction between filtered and unfiltered Ruby port?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
- mosesbotbol
- Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
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Re: Keeping tabs on other types of port.
Although a wine is sold under different names and descriptions, it is indeed a certain style of port that can be narrowed down if someone has tried. Special Reserve and Colheita are just Colheita for instance...
Not sure what the difference is from Ruby and Vintage Character?
We have to settle on "engraved in stone" categories for port first and combine the regional names.
Not sure what the difference is from Ruby and Vintage Character?
We have to settle on "engraved in stone" categories for port first and combine the regional names.
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