Looking for a Shipper ...

[Roy Hersh]

Does anyone know the shipper of this old bottling of VP? 1860 Loeb Vintage Port Your assistance would be appreciated.

[jdaw1]

Loeb is, as you say, a bottler. Only record of mine is from an auction: Hart Davis Hart, Chicago, 3 February 2007, lot 839, Quinta do Noval Vintage Port 1934 (1), slightly bin soiled label; UK bottled by O.W. Loeb & Co, and sold for $717.

Also mentioned as a bottler in and .

If this question originated in a thread elsewhere, or has been discussed elsewhere, please post links. And a picture!

[DRT]

Roy,

Andy sent me the following picture a couple of days ago. I presume this is the same bottle. O W Loeb still exist and you can find a list of contacts here who may be able to solve the mystery from their archives.

Loeb 1860.jpg (134.84 KiB) Viewed 4924 times

Derek

[jdaw1]

OW Loeb is an independent importing company, established in Trier in 1874 and London in 1938.

Those dates strongly suggest that the mystery 1860 was either very late-bottled or not vintage port, or not bottled by Loeb at all and merely bought for resale.

The ‘bought for resale’ hypothesis is helped by the importer:

Draper & Esquin started life as retailer-importer Esquin Imports in San Francisco in 1951. From the beginning, it was different from other stores in that the owner John Esquin made it a practice to go to France to seek out and visit tiny producers and négociants who hadn’t ever exported their wines to the US.

The company became Draper & Esquin in the 1970s

Conclusion: relative to the wine, Loeb’s rôle has been very recent, being ≥1951 and ≤1979.

[DRT]

From what I can read the label makes no claim that the wine was bottled by Loeb. It simply says "Exported by" and is clearly marked "Shipper unknown".

The only hope would be that Loeb know where the bottle came from and that source still exists and has records that could shed light on the origin.

[jdaw1]

If Loeb had known then, why wouldn’t they have put it on the label?

Also note the middling opinion of Hatch Mansfield.

1860. Fairly good ; dry.

[Andy Velebil]

Julian,
A friend of mine, and Roy's, here in Los Angeles drank this a couple nights ago. He emailed me asking about the bottle, and I presume Roy too. His dinner with this wine was posted on the Ebob and Winebeserkers wine forums (where I also post). He has frozen the last few ounces for me to try when I can meet up with him. I mentioned to him, and Derek, in an email that I would try and find the producer if I could.

There is only one entry for a 1860 Port that I know of, in Broadbent's book. Interestingly that was also a Loeb bottle with the same "Shipper unknown" on it. So it seems Loeb's may have have a number of these mystery bottles they sold many years ago. I've sent out a couple emails already trying to track it down.

[jdaw1]

A friend of mine, and Roy's, here in Los Angeles drank this a couple nights ago.

Please, was it ‟Fairly good ; dry”? If you have posted a TN somewhere, please add a link.

[Andy Velebil]

A friend of mine, and Roy's, here in Los Angeles drank this a couple nights ago.

Please, was it ‟Fairly good ; dry”? If you have posted a TN somewhere, please add a link.

This was at dinner I wasn't at. But he saved me a few ounces (by freezing it) until I can get over to his place to try it. Hopefully this week or next. He opened it at a high end wine dinner group of his, all of which have cellars that make ours look like a Cruz Ruby

here is link to the whole dinner

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic ... 23&start=0

[Roy Hersh]

Yes, I also was contacted by Frank in an email. He's a wine acquaintence of mine and almost came along on one of the Harvest Tours. Anyway, I also have a bottle of older Loeb bottled VP, but it was a '55 and the first digits were 19. I know someone in CA who was retailing a rather large collection of Loeb bottled VP just last year, from a private cellar elsewhere.

Anyway, it sounds like Andy is on to this, so I can just let it go now.

Thanks guys!

[Alex Bridgeman]

OW Loeb is an independent importing company, established in Trier in 1874 and London in 1938.

Those dates strongly suggest that the mystery 1860 was either very late-bottled or not vintage port, or not bottled by Loeb at all and merely bought for resale.

The resale hypothesis may be correct, perhaps Loeb bought a large cellar somewhere. I have seen 1931 vintage wines with Loeb labels on them - unless they were bottling in Trier

[Andy Velebil]

I am still researching this, with Loeb's help. They were quite intrigued by it, and that is all I will say for now. So please be patient as Itry to sort out the history of this bottle.

[Andy Velebil]

I finally got to taste this. TN is HERE