17 November 2011 - GC/SW/QH triple vertical

[RAYC]

UPDATE:

THEME: Gould Campbell - Smith Woodhouse - Quarles Harris triple vertical: 1970 - 1994
DATE: 17 November 2011; 7.00 arrival for 7.15 start
LOCATION: London (RAF Club, Piccadilly)
COST: £150, less discount for bottles supplied

ATTENDEES:

1. RAYC
2. Richard Mayson
3. Zelandakh
4. SushiNorth
5. DRT
6. AHB
7. THRA
8. WS1
9. AxelP
10. PhilW
11. Griff
12. Sascha
13. [jdaw1]
14. Vacancy
15. SushiNorth+1 (non-drinking)

RESERVE/STANDBY:
benread*
*currently unavailable

Attendees updated by DRT while RAYC is enjoying this.

LINE-UP
Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse and Quarles Harris from: 1970, 1977, 1980, 1983, 1985, 1991, 1994
-----------------------------------------
ORIGINAL POST

All,

As my 30th is coming up on 13.11.2011, I would like to schedule a mid-November tasting.

Venue and precise date t.b.c., but i will aim for 10th or 17th November (both Thursdays) at a central London location (probably TCP).

Since this will be sandwiched between the two large (and expensive) tastings already penned in for October and December, I would prefer to keep this relatively informal.

Please let me know if you would be interested, and - rather than watch me attempt to construct a 1981 horizontal using the single declared VP, some tired lbvs, a few (by all accounts rather good) 1981 colheitas and some (only tenuously linked to 1981) 30yr tawnies - use voting buttons for preferred theme:

- Niepoort Vertical: 1970 - present day (perhaps to include some colheitas...1970(bdx),1977,1982,1983,1985, 1987,1992,1994,1997,2003 VPs in my possession already)

- Smith Woodhouse v Gould Campbell double vertical: (1963, 1970, 1977, 1980, 1983, 1985, 1994...have a number of these and others should not be too problematic to source)

- 80s Matrix of some sort (following on nicely from October's tasting...best way to approach up for discussion)

[DRT]

Rob,

I'm in!

As this is your birthday I would be more than happy for you to select the theme.

Derek

[JacobH]

I’d be keen too, agreeing with DRT that Rob should choose the theme! However, I probably won’t be able to confirm until mid-October due to work issues, if that’s ok.

[jdaw1]

Voters might wish to read of a recent and large Niepoort vertical in Germany (I was very impressed), and a Smith Woodhouse vertical in New York.

But I agree with the consensus that the birthday boy should choose.

[RAYC]

I think either the Niepoort Vertical or SW-GC Double Vertical would make a good tasting.

I would love to do a Niepoort tasting and most of my bottles were acquired with that purpose in mind. I have enough to form the backbone of a modest but relatively complete tasting back to 1970, to which it would be easy to add a couple of nice colheitas, passadouros and/or secundums. There would still be gaps, however - without help i have no easy way of getting hold of the 1975, 1978, 1980 trio, let alone more spectacular bottles such as the squat 1970 (at which point costs start to spiral). Reading the thread jdaw1 posted on the tasting in Germany does make me wonder whether a more ambitious UK Niepoort tasting should be attempted by the group (even if we dont manage the very ancient bottles from before the 60s), in which case the November slot might not be the best.

The SW-GC double vertical is something that has appealed to me for a while and is perhaps more easily achievable without great effort/expense (and easily scalable to suit size of tasting) - it might also provide a good opportunity to do a couple of interesting side comparisons (mag v 75cl for one of the superb 77s, BBR b.o.b v original bottling for SW 1985 and 1991). However, I appreciate that it might not get people quite so excited as a Niepoort tasting (though i think SW in particular seems to be better regarded on this side of the Atlantic than the other, and i have previously been very impressed with both GC 70 and 77).

I'll make a call if people don't vote (and reserve the right to overrule in any event!), but would be interested to hear what people would like to be drinking in the November slot.

[uncle tom]

In principle I'm up for this, but around that time I may need to make a trip overseas at short notice. Put me down - if I have to duck out I'll donate a bottle!

Tom

[DRT]

I'll make a call if people don't vote (and reserve the right to overrule in any event!), but would be interested to hear what people would like to be drinking in the November slot.

Well, now that you are twisting our arms trying to get us to express a preference, I will vote for drinking Vintage Port at your Birthday Tasting.

[Alex Bridgeman]

While I agree with Derek, I have a slight preference for an 80s matrix. If that proves to be unpopular, then my next preference would be for the SW / GC double vertical.

[jdaw1]

If there are only a few people it could be both: {GC, SW}×{1980, 1983, 1985}.

[RAYC]

Sounds like either a GC-SW double vertical or 80s matrix - happy to leave in the air until there's a better idea on numbers.

While I agree with Derek, I have a slight preference for an 80s matrix.

How would you approach this?

The Dow-Graham-Fonseca-Taylor line-up from the Matrix Revisted but over 1980, 1983 and 1985 vintages, or perhaps a Symington-only matrix over 80, 83 and 85 with G,D,W,GC and SW?

If we were to go down the GC-SW route, the following line-up would be achievable without too much fuss (bottles I can provide indicated by initials, otherwise approx. winesearcher prices are shown).

Vintage GC SW
1970 RAYC RAYC
1977 RAYC ~£80 [Extra: Justerini b.o.b (SW) - ?(no availability on winesearcher)]
1980 RAYC RAYC
1983 ~£40 RAYC
1985 ~£50 RAYC [Extra: Berry's b.o.b (SW) - RAYC]
1991 RAYC RAYC [Extra: Berry's b.o.b (SW) - ?(no availability on winesearcher)]
1994 ~£55 ~£35 [Exra: Berry's b.o.b (SW) - RAYC]

[WS1]

Hi Ray,

sounds a terrific idea. Please let me know what theme you choose. Since i was at both of the Niepoort events in Germany I would be more in favour of the 80 Matrix tasting or the GC SW compariosn. I should be available in November and would like to attend if possible. Please let me know.

regards

WS1

[Axel P]

Ray,

for GC/SWC I would be in as well. We could do this in the RAF Club then, if wanted. How about Quarles Harris as well?

Best

Axel

[jdaw1]

‟The Matrix of Two Names”?

[Axel P]

I would have:

QH: 63, 70, 77, 80, 83, 85, 91, 94
SWC: 77, 80, 85, 94
GC: 77, 83, 85, 91, 94

If wanted I could send these in advance to ensure proper storing

Axel

[RAYC]

I have a slight preference for an 80s matrix.

for GC/SWC I would be in as well.

Alex - willingness for international travel trumps your mild preference for 80s matrix, so we will go down the GC-SW theme.

Axel - I think that's a great idea - the other obvious possibilty i suppose would have been Martinez. I will email you separately re: RAF and your bottles - many thanks.

First post updated.

[Axel P]

Rob,

fix the date and I will book the club

Axel

[Alex Bridgeman]

I have no problem with the theme chosen. However, you will need to control the completists amongst us as they attempt to include every vintage from these shippers known to have been declared since 1690.

Perhaps you could follow the modest lead of the Matrix Tasting and limit the number of bottles (and therefore cost) to 2 more than the number of people attending.

I have GC77, GC91, QH77, QH97 (if we go that young), SW77, SW83, SW91 which I could offer as contributions toward the line-up.

[uncle tom]

I have available:

GC - '24, '66, '70, '75, '77, '83, '85 & '94
QH - '75, '77 & '97
SW - '20, '35, '47, '70, '77, '80, '85, '91, '94, & '97

I would prefer not to open the oldest ones if they can't be paired for comparison.

Tom

[jdaw1]

I don’t know if I can make it. Please have me down as ‟first reserve” (yes, before the main list is full), and also I’ll make placemats.

[benread]

Rob,

I would like to attend please, although I would be unable to confirm for definite until my wife returns to work in early October as it would be contingent on her being able to get home for the kids in time. Something she will have to sort out once she is back at work. If that arrangement causes a problem, put me down as a reserve!

I will email you what I could contribute.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Phil W has asked me to post his wish to attend this offline.

[PhilW]

Phil W has asked me to post his wish to attend this offline.

Thanks Alex I would certainly like to attend. I've checked calendar and can definitely make the 10th, but if it's the 17th I might have to pass, unless I can juggle some commitments.

Phil.

[griff]

I would be interested in attending but I only have a 94 Quarles from memory so may need to buy in. I'll pm when I can check.

[WS1]

Hi there,

a good friend of mine (Enrico) would also like to attend. He was also present at the Sandeman tasting as well as the 1970 horicontal. Please let me know if this is possible.

regards

WS1

[RAYC]

Hi there,

a good friend of mine (Enrico) would also like to attend. He was also present at the Sandeman tasting as well as the 1970 horicontal. Please let me know if this is possible.

regards

WS1

Absolutely - post updated

[RAYC]

I've checked calendar and can definitely make the 10th, but if it's the 17th I might have to pass, unless I can juggle some commitments.

Phil.

Date contingent on a couple of possibilities that are currently being explored....hope to have a firm landing over next couple of weeks.

[RAYC]

First post updated.

I will be in touch with those who have offered bottles over the coming week.

Thereafter i will email everyone with approximate costings.

Cheers

Rob

[jdaw1]

Please post as well.

[griff]

I managed to dig into the stash and sadly the 1994 is a Delaforce. Will need to source a bottle or buy in as suits.

cheers

Carl

[DRT]

I have a bottle of Quarles Harris 1970 that was very kindly given to us for the 1970 Horizontal but was not opened. I have kept it as a donation to a suitable tasting and this seems to fit the bill.

The QH1970 can therefore be added to the line-up at zero cost, thereby allowing Axel to keep his bottle for another occasion.

[jdaw1]

I have a bottle of Quarles Harris 1970 that was very kindly given to us

Please acknowledge the donor.

[RAYC]

Fantastic.

[DRT]

I have a bottle of Quarles Harris 1970 that was very kindly given to us

Please acknowledge the donor.

Not here.

[RAYC]

All,

Bottles have now either been sourced or identified for this tasting (though '63s are still subject to confirmation) and a distinguished guest has confirmed his availability (with a second industry guest now invited), so I would be grateful if those who have given tentative indications of interest for this event are able to give a firm decision one way or the other in the near future.

On the basis of a full tasting (with two industry guests), the cost therefore comes out at approximately £175 per person (on the basis that we want to eat steak and drink from Riedels). This breaks down as approximately £85 for dinner, room and glass hire, and £90 for port. In the event that the '63s are not possible, the price will come to approximately £150 per person.

I appreciate that there are a number of contingencies for some of you that may not be resolved until the beginning of next month.

PMs/emails to follow to all who offered bottles or expressed interest.

Many thanks

Rob

[jdaw1]

A draft of the placemats.

• Weird bug in the pre-pour sheets will be fixed, eventually. It really isn’t obvious why the ‘W’ misbehaves here, but not on the glasses pages.

[DRT]

Since this will be sandwiched between the two large (and expensive) tastings already penned in for October and December, I would prefer to keep this relatively informal.

the cost therefore comes out at approximately £175 per person (on the basis that we want to eat steak and drink from Riedels).

[DRT]

A draft of the placemats.

• Weird bug in the pre-pour sheets will be fixed, eventually. It really isn’t obvious why the ‘W’ misbehaves here, but not on the glasses pages.

Interesting bug. The "W' also seems to behave properly on the place names sheets.

[jdaw1]

No bug if distilled with GhostScript, which suggests that Adobe might be to blame. Let me play a little.

[RAYC]

Since this will be sandwiched between the two large (and expensive) tastings already penned in for October and December, I would prefer to keep this relatively informal.

the cost therefore comes out at approximately £175 per person (on the basis that we want to eat steak and drink from Riedels).

mission creep. I thought by reducing the first sentence you quoted to font size 6 i might get away with it!

Seriously, though, please would anyone drop me a pm if they feel the cost would be prohibitive to their attendance - there are ways of reducing the cost (for example, if i wash the RAF glasses, we drop the 63s and eat steak and kidney pie, the cost would be approximately £115).

The primary intent is to get a good group of TPF members around the table drinking port, rather than to price anyone out by overreaching.

[DRT]

I wasn't complaining about the cost, but your post does make me question whether it is worth us spending £720 on three bottles of 63 from 2nd tier shippers, some fancy glasses and a different form of beef.

If the consensus is to go for the Full Monty on this one I am still in, but at the moment we don't have 12 confirmed paying guests so it might be wise to scale it back a little?

A couple of options are to stay with the full line-up and change venue to the Crusting Pipe or leave out the two youngest vintages?

[RAYC]

at the moment we don't have 12 confirmed paying guests so it might be wise to scale it back a little?

i will underwrite the risk of getting fewer than 12 paying guests, so this should not be a factor.

A couple of options are to stay with the full line-up and change venue to the Crusting Pipe or leave out the two youngest vintages?

I would be against losing the two youngest vintages, as these are able to be provided very cheaply, would be a great shame to omit, and would not make a great difference to the overall cost (saving of approx. £15 per paying guest).

[jdaw1]

If we had to prune, my preference is to keep the things that there is a chance of buying. For me this is a ‘what should I buy?’ tasting, rather than being completist. YMMV.

[DRT]

at the moment we don't have 12 confirmed paying guests so it might be wise to scale it back a little?

i will underwrite the risk of getting fewer than 12 paying guests, so this should not be a factor.

That is a very kind offer, but I don't think it is fair on you and sets a dangerous precedent that future organisers might not wish to suffer from. The way in which we share the cost of tasting has always been fair to all involved and I think that is how it should remain.

If we had to prune, my preference is to keep the things that there is a chance of buying. For me this is a ‘what should I buy?’ tasting, rather than being completist. YMMV.

According to http://www.wine-searcher.com the first vintage for which all three shippers is still available is 1977. Perhaps that should be the earliest vintage with the bottles from 1963 and 1970 being saved for completist events?

[jdaw1]

i will underwrite the risk of getting fewer than 12 paying guests, so this should not be a factor.

That is a very kind offer, but I don't think it is fair on you and sets a dangerous precedent that future organisers might not wish to suffer from. The way in which we share the cost of tasting has always been fair to all involved and I think that is how it should remain.

I second DRT’s refusal of your kind offer, for the same reasons.

[PhilW]

Agree with all above re: not taking Rob's kind underwriting offer; We should share the cost of whatever is decided we do.

If we're pruning, it seems like we have a few options, with different preferences from people; Certainly we could pare back from a 24-bottle tasting at RAF club if we are slightly shorter on numbers; also re-planning for TCP or Steak Exchange as an option to reduce overhead has also been suggested.

Trying to think through possible options for bottle-count reduction:
(a) Drop the early years (e.g. lose 63,70 especially given diffculty to source, becomes 18-bottle and lower cost)
(b) Drop the later years (e.g. lose 91,94; Rob already stated not keen on this option)
(c) Split the tasting into two parts, make this session the 63-77 session (to match the 11th Oct for other houses) and defer the 80-94 matrix for a subsequent session
(d) Keep the year range, but reduce to two houses instead of three (reduced cost and bottle count to 16)

Personally I'd be keen to compare at least the 77s and 70s to previous tastings for possible future purchase, but would also enjoy trying the later 83/85/91... ah hell, I want to try everything probably, not for completionism, just for the experience!

I guess I'm saying that I'm still happy to continue with the full tasting and pay my share including the earlier bottles, but am also happy to for a reduced tasting if that is the preference. I would probably shift venue if we reduce the bottle count. Since it is both his birthday and his event, it should be Rob's final decision.

[jdaw1]

(c) Split the tasting into two parts, make this session the 63-77 session (to match the 11th Oct for other houses) and defer the 80-94 matrix for a subsequent session

It is still on Thursday, so I am still out. But this seems to be a splendid suggestion.

[RAYC]

I am keen to get some momentum behind this tasting and for it to go ahead broadly as originally proposed.

Personally I believe this to be a very interesting line-up of ports (with some frequently mentioned as amongst the top 5 or 6 of their vintages), and i think it will be rather special to drink these in the company of Paul Symington (our confirmed guest), who will no doubt be able to satisfy our curiousity on these houses and, indeed, the latest news from the 2011 harvest.

For a 3-course meal at the RAF club and 21 bottles of vintage port (1970 - 1994), I think it pretty amazing that this can be done for £115. The room is booked, so I'm not sure moving to TCP saves much money (though does save glass washing), and i do know that guests tend to enjoy the setting of the club on Piccadilly.

I think the best way forward is for people to confirm whether they are happy at that price/with that plan, we can then discuss separately whether to add anything else to the tasting.

The cost of additionals would be:

+ Riedels (to save washing glasses) = approx £33 per person
+ ISOs = approx £21 per person
+ Steak (as some have expressed the desire for a change from steak and kidney) = approx £5 per person
+ '63s = approx £25 per person.

In terms of unfilled spaces, this should not be a particular issue as I will, if necessary, be able to rustle up a few friends with an interest in wine/port to help me celebrate my 30th! However, i would first like to see if we can get this up and running with TPF members with a real passion for port, experiencing varied tastings, and meeting members of the trade.

[DRT]

If the consensus is to go for the Full Monty on this one I am still in

[Axel P]

If the consensus is to go for the Full Monty on this one I am still in

Me, too.

[PhilW]

More than happy to go ahead with the full plan