Handwriting questions

[jdaw1]

Please could readers sufficiently skilled in the graphological arts say what is the word before ‟112”.

[DRT]

There is a "Rua Cima do Muro" in Oporto. Perhaps connected?

[jdaw1]

In the context of ‟Antonio J Da Silva & W !”, I’d expect that what comes next is the remainder of the name of a person, rather than the name of a street.

[djewesbury]

In the context of ‟Antonio J Da Silva & W !”, I’d expect that what comes next is the remainder of the name of a person, rather than the name of a street.

But it looks like an address. "112 Porto" seems to refer to a premises number or similar; a continental style of putting building number after street name or something; or an early postcode. I would have plumped for Muro also.

[DRT]

In the context of ‟Antonio J Da Silva & W !”, I’d expect that what comes next is the remainder of the name of a person, rather than the name of a street.

This was 1921. Many streets have been re-named (or newly-named) since 1921 using the names of local, national or global celebrities. Mr W Cima do Muro might have left a longer impression on Oporto than he had planned.

[djewesbury]

But "Cima do Muro" means "fence". That is not anybody's name.

[DRT]

In the context of ‟Antonio J Da Silva & W !”, I’d expect that what comes next is the remainder of the name of a person, rather than the name of a street.

But it looks like an address. "112 Porto" seems to refer to a premises number or similar; a continental style of putting building number after street name or something; or an early postcode. I would have plumped for Muro also.

By George you've got it!

The "W" is "Co", as in "A da Silva & Co". "Cima do Muro, 112 Oporto" is the firms address.

[djewesbury]

In the context of ‟Antonio J Da Silva & W !”, I’d expect that what comes next is the remainder of the name of a person, rather than the name of a street.

But it looks like an address. "112 Porto" seems to refer to a premises number or similar; a continental style of putting building number after street name or something; or an early postcode. I would have plumped for Muro also.

By George you've got it!

The "W" is "Co", as in "A da Silva & Co". "Cima do Muro, 112 Oporto" is the firms address.

Mystery solved. This is a better quiz.

[DRT]

3. The so-called ‟Ferdinand” wall began in 1336, in the time of D. Afonso IV, and it was finished in 1734, during the reign of D. Fernando; hence its name. Within the route we are taking, the wall (that came from the Virtudes and running parallel to the Escadas do Caminho Novo ”“ Caminho Novo Staircase), stretched all the way to the Porta Nova or Nobre (disappeared in 1872), round the area of the Muro dos Bacalhoeiros and continued through the riverside to the Guindais, climbing up towards the Postigo de Sto. António do Penedo (which would be replaced by the so-called Porta do Sol in 1767/69).

Apart from the Porta da Ribeira (disappeared in 1821), there were several other postigos (peepholes) in the mentioned perimeter: Postigo dos Banhos, Postigo do Pereira or da Lingueta, Postigo do Carvão, Postigo do Peixe, Postigo do Pelourinho, Postigo da Forca, Postigo da Madeira or da Lada, Postigo da Areia or dos Tanoeiros.

There was a time when the people’s function of defending the wall became unimportant, and as of that moment houses began to be built back to back with the wall. The road that led to these houses began, thus, to be called Cima do Muro da Ribeira (on top of the Ribeira wall), later obtaining the name of Rua de Cima do Muro (Street of the Top of the Wall). This is where one finds the house linked to the image of Gomes de Sá, which is located among the interesting groups of houses overlooking the Muro (Wall).

One must also refer the existence of the Cais da Estiva (Estiva Quay) to the west, which was the city’s main anchorage until the 19th century and served the traffic of the Customhouse

[DRT]

This is a better quiz.

Agreed.

[jdaw1]

The "W" is "Co", as in "A da Silva & Co".

You have found the key. Well done team.

[jdaw1]

Another reading problem. The camera failed to focus properly on a page — my responsibility is not denied.

Several photographs follow. The first is as-original. Subsequent pictures have had brightness and contrast changed, in the hope that might help.

The line probably starts “Three Dozen Bottles of”, mostly in small capitals. But what’s the Port?








(I have a guess, but want it independently verified.)

[djewesbury]

It's either Dolamore or Delaforce. Do you know what the year is likely to be?

[djewesbury]

1929?

EDIT: or 1919…

[djewesbury]

Delaforce. Definitely.

[PhilW]

Agree, definitely Delaforce, probably 1919, can't make out the three small marks under Delaforce, could be "de la C'te" but that's just a guess, could be many other things also.

[djewesbury]

I believe those marks are a price in LSD.

[jdaw1]

(I have a guess, but want it independently verified.)

My guess was Delaforce 1919, partly because the next parcel of lots was halves of Df19. So we agree.

Thank you for helping.

[djewesbury]

A pleasure. Happy Xmas.

[jdaw1]

Another question for our resident handwriting experts.

Pale col. Rather brown rather than tawny. Slightly spirity nose, Harsh spirity & powerful. Plenty of bite. ??.

[djewesbury]

The last part looks like it may be 'do', as in 'ditto', but that doesn't make sense. It doesn't seem to be a number (score).

EDIT: "Unless it's 10." (RAB)

[flash_uk]

Pale col.
Rather brown rather than tawny
Slightly spirity nose, harsh, spirit and powerful
Plenty of bite

So I agree.

[djewesbury]

But the question concerns the last two marks.

[AW77]

Perhaps it's just a typo that was caused by the haste in which tasting notes sometimes are written. I would suggest 'Plenty of bite to[o]' (with the last 'o' simply missing).

[PhilW]

Pale col. Rather brown rather than tawny. Slightly spirity nose, Harsh spirity & powerful. Plenty of bite. ??.

Minor correction - I think it says "Rather browny rather than tawny.". The final word looks like "do" or possibly "no" but difficult to tell; am assuming the cropped area to its immediate left is not of assistance in this regard?

[djewesbury]

I think the main body of the text is correct and a letter here or there makes no difference to the general tenor. Yes, browny, not brown. But the last 'do' must refer to a repeated opinion from the previous note. This is from the Christie's catalogues, no? I recognise the handwriting from your previous posts. So perhaps a final comment that echoes that already given previously.

[jdaw1]

am assuming the cropped area to its immediate left is not of assistance in this regard?

Correct. All the green ink is shown.

[djewesbury]

Perhaps it's just a typo that was caused by the haste in which tasting notes sometimes are written. I would suggest 'Plenty of bite to[o]' (with the last 'o' simply missing).

-1. There's a full stop after 'bite' and the form of the letter is definitely 'd' to my eyes.

[PhilW]

There's a full stop after 'bite'

Agree.

and the form of the letter is definitely 'd' to my eyes.

I'm less definitive; it could be "do", but I think "no" is viable also, and given the preceeding note would make sense if this were someones personal notes (do I buy or not based on the tasted sample, perhaps). If this were a handwritten catalogue then "no" would seem to make less sense as an option, however.

[djewesbury]

Have a look at the last posts in the Christie's threads, Phil. These seem to be the notes of the specialist given the arduous task of assessing the wines on sale.

[jdaw1]

if this were someones personal notes (do I buy or not based on the tasted sample, perhaps)

This catalogue is at Christie’s, so is presumably that of Christie’s staff, who really shouldn’t be buying for themselves.

[PhilW]

I had a look at other posts, but to no further illumination. Might an image of any preceding or following handwritten comment(s) in the same document be of help?

[jdaw1]

And I’ve asked the obvious question in 1?@aT.

[DRT]

I think it is "No". There is similarity to the way "no" at the beginning of "nose" is written a few lines above. The upper v lower case difference might explain why they are not identical.

I also think it is "No" because the note is not complimentary. Perhaps the lot was rejected?

[jdaw1]

Thank you. It seems people generally read it as I did. Next up, from a catalogue of 22 July 1976, Morgan 1950:


and Morgan 1960:

[DRT]

Very pale col. Musty. Spirity rather hot. Funny one but good.

Red pale col. Rich & straw col. Light. V ford easy & n?v

I think "v ford" is "very forward" - should this go in apostrophe crimes?

[djewesbury]

No no. You're misreading all the "g"s.

Very pale col. Musky. Spirity rather hot. Going over but good.

Med pale col. Rich q. strong col [? He's already described the colour; I think this is different, also the "o" is formed differently]. Light. V good easy & soft.

[PhilW]

Hmm. Another variation:

V pale col.
Murky. Spirity rather
hot
funny one but good

Med pale col.
Rich q. strong col. .
v good tasty
+ soft

(admittedly the "one" looks more like "over" and "tasty" like "easy", but there are significant variations of the same letter within these notes, so that would be my best interpretation).

[djewesbury]

Definitely not funny. That is a "g". Look at the other confirmed "g"s. It's the way I write my "g"s.

Definitely not easy. Not enough characters. E a s y.

[jdaw1]

Mg60: “Red pale col” or “Med pale col”?

[djewesbury]

Med. Incontrovertible.

[djewesbury]

See the "R" on following line.

[jdaw1]

Having read the suggestions my best understandings are:
• Mg50 — “V pale col. Musky. Spirity rather hot. Fiery one but good”.
• Mg60 — “Med pale col. Rich & straw col. Light. V fwd easy & soft”. Of this, the word I think most open to challenge is the “soft”.

[RAYC]

Musky

Rather than "musty"?

[RAYC]

• Mg60 — “Med pale col. Rich & straw col.

The two "col."s do not look like the same word to me

[jdaw1]

• Mg60 — “Med pale col. Rich & straw col.

The two "col."s do not look like the same word to me

They do to me.

Musky

Rather than "musty"?

I’m persuaded.


Having read the suggestions my new best understandings are:
• Mg50 — “V pale col. Musty. Spirity rather hot. Fiery one but good”.
• Mg60 — “Med pale col. Rich & straw col. Light. V fwd easy & soft”. Of this, the word I think most open to challenge is the “soft”.

[djewesbury]

No. I can only say that you are all misreading the "g"s.

[djewesbury]

I attach this sample to prove my point.

[RAYC]

• Mg60 — “Med pale col. Rich & straw col. Light. V fwd easy & soft”. Of this, the word I think most open to challenge is the “soft”.

For reasons Daniel states, I also think "V good" rather than "V fwd" (and to me the word looks the same as the last word in the previous note on Morgan 60)

[djewesbury]

The two "o"s in "good" could not be a "w", even though the loop of one is almost completely closed.