Mon 16 June 2014, The Bung Hole: 1997 Maturity Evaluation

[flash_uk]

On Monday 16^th June 2014 a group of us gathered in The Bung Hole to evaluate the maturity of a number of the 1997 vintage.

Links:

• Review of the event as a whole;
• 1997 Cockburn (MPM);
• 1997 Croft Roeda (THRA);
• 1997 Dow (IDJ);
• 1997 Ferreira (IDJ);
• 1997 Fonseca (DaveRL);
• 1997 Gould Campbell (MPM);
• 1997 Graham (CPR);
• 1997 Quinta do Infantado (MPM);
• 1997 Martinez (AHB);
• 1997 Morgan (MPM);
• 1997 Quinta do Noval (CMAG);
• 1997 Offley (JDAW from Stevens Garnier);
• 1997 Quinta do Passadouro ( Kindly donated by VintageWineAndPort.co.uk);
• 1997 Ramos Pinto (IDJ);
• 1997 Sandeman (JDAW from Stevens Garnier);
• 1997 Sandeman Vau, Double Magnum (JDAW);
• 1997 Sandeman Vau, Single (JDAW from Stevens Garnier);
• 1997 Smith Woodhouse (MPM);
• 1997 Taylor (DaveRL);
• 1997 Quinta do Vesuvio (THRA);
• 1997 Warre (MPM);
• Placemats (and parameters by which made);
• Planning and arrangements.

[jdaw1]

First Flight
—D—
F—G
—N—T
V—W

[jdaw1]

First Flight
—D—
F—G
—N—T
V—W

[jdaw1]

First Flight
—D—
F—G
—N—T
V—W

[jdaw1]

Second Flight
Fr—RP—SV ¾l—SW;
—GC—S—SV 3l

[jdaw1]

Second Flight
Fr—RP—SV ¾l—SW;
—GC—S—SV 3l

[jdaw1]

Second Flight
Fr—RP—SV ¾l—SW;
—GC—S—SV 3l

[jdaw1]

Third Flight
—CR—Mg—Ps
Ck—I—O

[jdaw1]

Third Flight
—CR—Mg—Ps
Ck—I—O

[jdaw1]

Third Flight
—CR—Mg—Ps
Ck—I—O

[jdaw1]

Third Flight
—CR—Mg—Ps
Ck—I—O

[flash_uk]

We gathered and drank port. 20 bottles of port, although unusually some glasses still contained port as we departed.

We were joined by a number of TPF virgins, and we had a surprise appearance by Mr Doty, who is not a virgin.

We tasted in 3 flights, Wine or the Flight as follows:
Flight 1: Warre, with Dow second
Flight 2: Gould Campbell closely followed by Ramos Pinto
Flight 3: Offley, closely followed by nothing

WOTN was Ramos Pinto. This is somewhat puzzling, as RP was beaten by GC in flight 2. Tied for second place were GC, D and W.

Many thanks to everyone for the wonderful company as ever. And congratulations to Julian and Daniel for making it to the end despite being well progressed at 6.30pm courtesy of Lords.

[jdaw1]

Lots of dark-red to dark-dark-red, 70% to 90% opaque juice. Some nosed dirty, very unpleasantly so. Some of these were big names with chunky pricing. Some, particularly some names of lesser repute, showed well. My favourites were Dow, Gould Campbell and Ramos Pinto.

Interesting, and a worthwhile experiment, but very few need to be drunk soon, the possible exception being Infantado (drink soon, or, better, never).

Big hand to Flash for arranging everything.

[flash_uk]

WOTF

WOTFs.JPG (229.09 KiB) Viewed 38335 times

[flash_uk]

WOTN

WOTN2s.jpg (192.16 KiB) Viewed 38333 times

[uncle tom]

I've always associated a 'dirty nose' with the '91 vintage, and to find several instances amongst the '97s was very disappointing, especially as one of the worst affected is the one that carries the highest price tag.

This phenomenon is only found in older bottles that are otherwise clearly flawed, which begs the question - is this a transient phase that will pass after a few more years in bottle? - or is it an unintended consequence of some development in vintage port production?

If the latter is the case, the alarm bells should be ringing in Portugal..

Aside from that, I think it is fair to say that there were no big beasts leading the field. In maturation terms this is looking like an average to slightly forward vintage for regular drinking in the 2020s and 2030s.

- Thanks to the team for making the event happen..!

[Chris Doty]

Feel very fortunate to have been summoned to London for the 1997 tasting (errr....work). The highlight was the conversation / new faces, as the wines themselves have not especially encouraged me to add to my fairly meager allocations of this particular vintage.

While certain wines were showing more forward character than expected (e.g,. Warre, Gould, RP, Dow), I wouldn't call any 'lush,' or 'complex.' I suspect the Graham's and then the Taylors will best reward cellaring, but I don't really see this vintage competing long term with 1994 or 2000 (and certainly not the likes of 2011). The Vau, on a value basis, was respectable, though it seems prices for this wine have crept up lately (at least in the States).

It is unfortunate that some of the would-be starts of the night were duffers - notably the Fonseca (corked) and the Noval (hopefully flawed, but unclear how).

So - good to see some old friends as well as meet some new ones.

Can we do 1970 next time?

woo woo
chris

[DaveRL]

An excellent night. Really enjoyed it. My first, but hopefully not my last. Thanks to all.

[djewesbury]

May I just note that not one person noticed my Bloomsday get-up? Disappointing.

[djewesbury]

Thanks to Mike from me (and Pops) also. I'm fairly sure I owe money for bottles..?

[uncle tom]

May I just note that not one person noticed my Bloomsday get-up? Disappointing.

I've honestly never heard of Bloomsday before.. - Google to the rescue!

[griff]

A surprising result for this naive port drinker!

[flash_uk]

Perhaps Alex could update the offline summary for 2014 and we can see where things lie?

[uncle tom]

Perhaps Alex could update the offline summary for 2014 and we can see where things lie?

Or start one for 2015

[jdaw1]

Five posts moved by jdaw1 to the thread entitled 1970 Horizontal, requested by Doty.

[flash_uk]

May I just note that not one person noticed my Bloomsday get-up? Disappointing.

The Bloomsday get-up was in no way inconsistent with a day at Lords, hence I made no comment

[Axel P]

Unfortunately I could not make it to the tasting. Since I did several small comparisons lately with 94 and 97 I always found the 97s to have more grip and be the more interesting Port.

It would really surprise me if this is a Vintage for rather the short term.

Axel

[djewesbury]

I agree with Tom. Dirtiness and grittiness was evident in a number of these.

[flash_uk]

I am finding it hard to draw any solid conclusions at all about 97 from this exercise. Both N and F had issues and I would not draw conclusions on a single bottle. G and T were really not like themselves and I will wait a few years before reassessing. D and W were nice but not so much to say they will be superstars. Similarly Vesuvio. The Warre was more forward, not unlike the W94 tasted earlier in the year, so it will be interesting to watch where it goes longer term.

In the middle tiers, GC, RP and Offley were all pleasant and about what I would have expected from these houses.

[Chris Doty]

I did several small comparisons lately with 94 and 97 I always found the 97s to have more grip and be the more interesting Port.

You were missed Axel, and based on your comments I would have loved to hear your impressions from this tasting, as I am not sure I found grip on any of the wines (the closest was the Graham, but it was disjointed and appeared most on the back-end, where as I personally find grip to be a defining characteristic of the mid-palate).

The most pleasant drinkers from this tasting (Warre, Dow, Gould, and Ramos, in my, and I think in the Group's judgment) were generally on the more perfumed / fruit forward end of the spectrum, as opposed to the tannic/backbone-y side. The Graham and Taylor I think were just too young for the occasion, and my judgment is generally withheld (except to say neither showed tell tale signs of Outstanding character beneath). I have generally liked the 94s (the Graham especially, but many others as well), so I am a bit surprised that you've tended to prefer 97. I actually thought the 97s were drinking younger than I had anticipated, and I believe they will mature first.

If you're not tired of the theme, I'd be happy for a small 'vintage pairs' blind tasting when next we meet.

Hope all is well
chris

[DRT]

If you're not tired of the theme, I'd be happy for a small 'vintage pairs' blind tasting when next we meet.

What a splendid idea.

[DRT]

1997 was widely declared and has now reached an age where it would traditionally have been considered old enough to drink. We do not have much experience of this vintage here but I suspect many of us have cases from various shippers and have no idea how they are maturing. Should we do the Port world a service and taste a representative selection from this vintage?

Depending on when, count me in too - even if only so I can sit in the corner and lecture everyone at the pointlessness of trying to drink Vintage Port at under 21 years of age (new release port excluded). I'm not wholly sure what we'll get out of a 1997 horizontal, but I haven't tried many recently so it's worth a go and the few I have tried this year were surprisingly approachable.

Just saying

[idj123]

Another enjoyable evening with the new and old at TBH although as far as the 97s were concerned I found the going tough and as I was one of those who (shock, horror) Mike has noted, left unemptied glasses at the end of proceedings (a first for me and I promise not to do it again!). As has been stated elsewhere, some of the major players failed to turn up (the F and the N) whilst the G was disappointing (and probably unreflective) and the T closed. There was some salvation in the form of the D and W but may be the second and third flights afforded more encouragement (and probably value) in the shape of the RP (almost accessible now), the GC (one to keep and eye on) and the OBV. In terms of their current drinking window, the SV in single and DM format offered the most pleasure.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Perhaps Alex could update the offline summary for 2014 and we can see where things lie?

I'll do it this weekend if I get the chance

[jdaw1]

I’ve just entered my TNs, and was surprised to see that I was the first to do so. Come on chaps!

Any what nasty reading they are. TCA in or suspected in F, G, N, V, and even Fr. Oh dear. And a worse problem for the Mz.

Commendation though to D, GC, RP, SW.

[CPR 1]

Needless to say I have misplaced my notes from this evening, I recall it was a good evening but let down by the port! Overall I was disappointed with 97 with none standing out and saying buy me at all, very different from the 94 tasting earlier in the year.

[flash_uk]

I’ve just entered my TNs, and was surprised to see that I was the first to do so. Come on chaps!

Just discovered my notes in the drawer. Will post what I have...