The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 20:50 Wed 17 Sep 2014

Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 20:57 Wed 17 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:What Daniel described strikes at the root of the problem. I am quite certain that the great unwashed element in the Yes camp will believe that being an in independent Scot means not having to be British.

I know exactly what you mean but I think there's a big difference between 'Britain' and 'British Isles'. One has always been the name of the island you are on. The other is arguably, at least, a term describing a power relationship developed over hundreds of years and only relatively recently being re-thought. If the Scots want to pretend that Scotland is not on an island called Britain, good luck to them.

Post by **DRT** » 21:20 Wed 17 Sep 2014

We agree entirely - I just think there are a couple of million people with their faces painted blue who haven't quite realised that reality yet.

For the record, I am firmly of the view that the archipelago known as The British Isles includes a very large emerald coloured island, but I can see why that geographic reality is politically unacceptable to the unenlightened.

Post by **DRT** » 21:28 Wed 17 Sep 2014

LGTrotter wrote:Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.

Don't be fooled by the "we hate the Tories" mob. In my youth the Salmonites were known as "The Scottish Tories". Regardless of whether they are voting yes or no there will remain a deep distrust of politicians whether they are in Holyrood or Westminster or Brussels.

My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.

Betfair paid out on No votes today.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:31 Wed 17 Sep 2014

Paid out? How?

Post by **DRT** » 21:32 Wed 17 Sep 2014

If you placed a bet with Betfair on a no vote they have paid out the winnings. Google it.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:35 Wed 17 Sep 2014

Just did. Blimey.

Post by **flash_uk** » 21:36 Wed 17 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.

I tend to agree. Last night I was thinking 58:42. Sadly, even if No carries the day, I suspect we are in for months and years of tedious devolution debates, which in the end (over say 10-15 years) might prove to be worse than a straight Yes.

Post by **DRT** » 21:37 Wed 17 Sep 2014

Indeed.

Post by **DRT** » 21:38 Wed 17 Sep 2014

My last post directed at Daniel.

It will only be drawn out if it is close. Which is why it needs not to be.

AW77 · Post by **AW77** » 21:40 Wed 17 Sep 2014

If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:42 Wed 17 Sep 2014

AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.

You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.

Post by **flash_uk** » 21:44 Wed 17 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:
AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.

Yes indeed. There are many Welsh, Scots and N Irish who shun the idea that they are British. And many also who rejoice that they are British.

Post by **flash_uk** » 21:46 Wed 17 Sep 2014

I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this

Post by **DRT** » 21:49 Wed 17 Sep 2014

AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.

"British" was in use long before England existed as a single state. The problem you allude to is actually the reverse in that "Britains" have for two centuries or more been commonly known as "English" throughout the rest of the world. That's the bit that causes the hackles to rise on the back of the Celtic necks.

Post by **DRT** » 21:50 Wed 17 Sep 2014

flash_uk wrote:I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this

I elect Wolfgang as my proxy.

Post by **DRT** » 17:48 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:Rab McGabe

A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!

Sensible people that I have spoken to today are now seriously worried that the nationalistic frenzy is pushing this in the wrong direction.

Surely common sense will prevail!!

Post by **jdaw1** » 18:26 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!

That should be reported to the police, pronto.

Post by **DRT** » 18:40 Thu 18 Sep 2014

It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 19:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Are there UN observers and independent monitors watching the vote and count?

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 20:11 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!

Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!

Post by **DRT** » 21:11 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Is it too late for placemats?

Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:

The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old

The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich 12 Year Old

Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old

...all in 5cl format.

Post by **DRT** » 21:12 Thu 18 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!

seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:13 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?

Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:

The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old

The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich 12 Year Old

Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old

...all in 5cl format.

It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.

Post by **DRT** » 21:14 Thu 18 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!

seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:14 Thu 18 Sep 2014

(And what a nice selection, if I may say so.)

Post by **PhilW** » 21:17 Thu 18 Sep 2014

How's anybody's whisky? Given the John-Snow-equivalent guy who has just been on the beeb, trying to excite us with graphics (but no swingometer, yet), I started the Balvenie (Caribbean cask) - an unusual follow-on to the glass of D83 I had earlier - which is very tasty, and identical to every other bottle of Balvenie Caribbean cask I've had before (only 2 or 3, admittedly, but no noticeable bottle variation).

benread · Post by **benread** » 21:21 Thu 18 Sep 2014

I'm drinking 2005 Noval LBV. Is that wrong?

Glenn E. · Post by **Glenn E.** » 21:29 Thu 18 Sep 2014

I have no scotch in my house. Will Midleton Very Rare 2013 do, or would that cause an international incident?

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:31 Thu 18 Sep 2014

How's that for quick? Shows what you can do with an amazing piece of software and a decent template.

Option-click to download the PDF, Derek. Obviously your hotel will print this for you in the Business Suite!

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:33 Thu 18 Sep 2014

benread wrote:I'm drinking 2005 Noval LBV. Is that wrong?

How COULD that be wrong? It's got the word NO in the name.

Glenn E. wrote:I have no scotch in my house. Will Midleton Very Rare 2013 do, or would that cause an international incident?

As I was saying to Ben, drink it if you've got it.

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 21:39 Thu 18 Sep 2014

The Croft's alright, I've started a tasting note. With pictures, done incompetently, but pictures nonetheless.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:55 Thu 18 Sep 2014

I think Huw Edwards looks thirsty.

Post by **DRT** » 21:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Review thread started.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 21:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Ready for the results

Post by **DRT** » 21:57 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Our posts crossed. Please re-post in the review thread.

benread · Post by **benread** » 21:58 Thu 18 Sep 2014

I think you may be thirsty before the result is known!

Post by **DRT** » 22:01 Thu 18 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.

Tick, tick, tick…

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:02 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Tick, tick, tick…

Er, upthread??

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:03 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Yes I know, the centre heading in Derek's placemat is wrong. I spotted that. But we need to get a move on.

Post by **DRT** » 22:08 Thu 18 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Tick, tick, tick…
Er, upthread??

Apologies, and thanks.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:08 Thu 18 Sep 2014

My pleasure!

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 22:15 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Terrific set of vinyl Daniel. Can't help noticing Nigella's jug in the background.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:16 Thu 18 Sep 2014

LGTrotter wrote:Terrific set of vinyl Daniel. Can't help noticing Nigella's jug in the background.

So observant. It is Nigella's jug. In, I think, a rather Marie Antoinette sense. And that's just a small amount of the vinyl…

Post by **PhilW** » 22:17 Thu 18 Sep 2014

DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?

Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:

The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old

The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old

...all in 5cl format.

Damn; I saw the same pack in Sainsbury's at the weekend, and ignored it in favour of 70cl of Carribean cask, but they would havebeen perfect for tonight. Too much port and whisky in me to go get some now! Will be interested to see how the 17yr doublewood comes out, haven't seen that before.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:23 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.

Post by **DRT** » 22:27 Thu 18 Sep 2014

BBC reported 54% No from an unofficial poll (i.e. made up by a journo in Manchester)

LGTrotter · Post by **LGTrotter** » 22:30 Thu 18 Sep 2014

djewesbury wrote:Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.

Adam Boulton is the epitome of a man carved from a boiled ham.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:30 Thu 18 Sep 2014

LGTrotter wrote:
djewesbury wrote:Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.
Adam Boulton is the epitome of a man carved from a boiled ham.

I say 'apparently' because I would never watch the big ugly eejit myself.

djewesbury · Post by **djewesbury** » 22:34 Thu 18 Sep 2014

Peter Kellner says 54% No then. It's true. Don't bother counting all those tedious votes.