Cockburn's Rubies really that bad?

[KillerB]

Has anyone tasted one recently, including the Special Reserve. It is the stuff that we all ridicule but how bad is Cockburn's Ruby and even the Special Reserve, which should really be the best Ruby in the world if they can't be arsed to make proper Port.

[jdaw1]

Never had one. Nor Cruz 1989. So what do I know?

[KillerB]

That gives you options 3 and 4

[Conky]

Cockburns, or Cock burns, as I remember it, was part of Christmas as a lad. My Dad wasn't a great fan of Port, but it was part of the clunking box that came in the house the week before Christmas. A few other favourites were 'Noilly Prat', 'Advocat', and 'hock,lime and lemon'. I would never see these drinks any other time of the year, and I was allowed the odd glass, even aged around 9!
So it has a sentimental place in my history that stops me slagging it off. It may be crude and cheap, but so are chip butties, and many high profile TPF members wolfed plenty of them down, last thing at the F Plan!!! (You'd forgot, hadn't you?)

Alan

[jdaw1]

I didn’t have a chip butty. Or at least, I don’t remember having a chip butty. Fantastic though they are. Did I really?

[Conky]

Yes.

Fairs fair, I cant remember whether it was brown sauce or red sauce.
And you can always use the excuse that you were just humouring Debs who wanted to make them for Derek, who was swaying like an untethered Zeppelin!

[g-man]

I didn’t have a chip butty. Or at least, I don’t remember having a chip butty. Fantastic though they are. Did I really?

chip butty with a few sprinkles of curry spices makes an excellent snack!

[Conky]

G-Man,

What a shame you cant come over this side of the Pond. You can put up with our Julian, and you like your Chip Butties...you'd fit right in.

(You can talk crap until the early hours, of course, cant you?)

Alan

[jdaw1]

Just let me know when this thread is officially off-topic.

[DRT]

Just let me know when this thread is officially off-topic.

I have no idea what you mean. A slight deviation? Perhaps. Off-topic? No.

I voted the same as Jdaw as I have never had a Cock Burn Ruby. However, I have had the Cock Burn Special Reserve and it is complete rubbish.

Derek

[KillerB]

Is Cockburn's Special Reserve a Ruby? If so, then you know what you should have voted.

[DRT]

Yes, it is. And yes, I do

[Axel P]

Acutally from my earlier experience the Special Reserve of Cockburns isnt all that bad for a special ruby.

I had a bottle of the 70s VP, which did not convince me to become a Cockburns fan, but I have a couple other years and just received some 94s as well, which Im keen to try.

And by the way: why is someone planning a Cockburn's vertical (!!!), if the stuff should be that miserable?

Axel

[KillerB]

It's a VP vertical not a Ruby vertical. Fonseca makes rotten rubies but their VPs are the honeymaker's patellas.

[Conky]

It's a VP vertical not a Ruby vertical. Fonseca makes rotten rubies but their VPs are the honeymaker's patellas.

Very good. I'll add that one to 'excrement off a digging implement' or 'Robert is your Mothers Brother'. My mini collection of daft sayings

Alan

[KillerB]

Expect Julian to point out that insects don't actually have patellas, it's a mammal thing, etc.

[jdaw1]

Expect Julian to point out that insects don't actually have patellas, it's a mammal thing, etc.

the patella is fully developed only in placental mammals; marsupials have only rudimentary, non-ossified patellae.

So why would I protest?

[KillerB]

Possibly my use of the Americanized 'patellas' rather than the Latin based 'patellae', oh the shame, corrected by Wikipedia.

[Alex Bridgeman]

And by the way: why is someone planning a Cockburn's vertical (!!!), if the stuff should be that miserable?

Cockburn have made some very good vintage ports. The '83 is perfectly respectable, the '67 excellent, the '55 stunning, the '12 amazing. I'd love to try some of the other vintages that I've not had in the past and compare these to some of the vintages that I know and love.

I'm definitely up for a Cockburn vertical to see how their wines show.

Alex

[uncle tom]

I've not sampled one for some time, but do recall the Special Reserve triumphing when it was compared to the horrid Taylor's First Estate, and at the same time showing on a par with Warre's Warrior.

KB - Have you had a duff bottle at some point?

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

I saw the Special Reserve at the market this evening and was about to get it to try, just to see for myself if it was good or not...but then saw the 1999 Warre's unfiltered LBV. I'll give you one guess what I got and am now drinking

[Axel P]

My english appears not to be good enough to have understood this in the first place. I considered VPs to be Rubies because I differentiate Tawnies and Rubies on the one side and the quality-levels of the two on the other.

Sorry for the mishap.

Axel

[Conky]

Axel,

I think you have Rubies on both sides of your quality fence? Did you mean Reserves on one side?

You raise an interesting issue. For no particular reason, I've always had VP's and Tawnies on one side, with LBV's and Reserves on the other, I've actually given up on Rubies, which I associate with young VP's (As in, unpleasant). What do others think?

I left all the others, Colheita, Crusted, Garrafeira,etc, out of that thought, because I haven't got a bloody clue about them

Alan

[DRT]

Axel,

Strictly speaking it is you who have used the correct meaning for the term Rubies and not those of us who live on this island.

As I understand it, Port is split into 3 principal categories:

• Ruby Port
• Tawny Port
• White Port

The Ruby Port category includes the styles Ruby, Reserve, LBV, Crusted and Vintage.

Derek

[KillerB]

Fair point Axel.

I was, of course, referring to the things we generally refer to as 'Ruby', that is anything without a year. I apologise for my lack of specification and promise to make the same mistake again in the future.

[KillerB]

KB - Have you had a duff bottle at some point?

Tom

Yes, all of them in fact.

OK, maybe they are not as bad as I think. It is just that Cockburn's is the Port that was just everywhere and was one of the ones that stopped me drinking better stuff for a long time. See also Fonseca Bin 27. I think I just don't like NV Rubies much: it's for cooking.

[Andy Velebil]

Axel,

Port is broken down into two categories only, Wood aged and Bottle aged.

Wood aged (Tawny):
All colheita's, tawny's, Garrafeira's, tawny w/ an indication of age,


Bottle Aged (Ruby):
Rubies, VP's, SQVP's, LBV's, reserve,

The IVDP does consider White Ports to be their own category. But really they fit into the Ruby category as 99% of them are not aged for more than a few years before being bottled, like a standard Ruby. There are a handful of older white colheita's out there, and those would fall into the Wood aged Port category.

Of course this is the Port industry, so just to confuse you even more, there is now an offical White Port with an indication of age (10 years only) category. So that too would be a Wood Aged Port.

[DRT]

As usual, we all all right in our own little way

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

As usual, we all all right in our own little way

Derek

I just wanted to put the screws to ya since I haven't busted your chops in a while ignore the above post and I'll go back to my bottle of 99 Warre's LBV

BTW, do you mean...We all write in our own little way

[uncle tom]

So white with an indication of age is now officially recognised..

That's news - have any of the producers launched a product yet?

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

So white with an indication of age is now officially recognised..

That's news - have any of the producers launched a product yet?

Yup. Andresen have launched a 10 year old an it's available in the UK through the Laithwaites chain. I can't remember the cost though.

[Axel P]

Thanks guys, but I definitely did not want to make a point like I know stuff.

If you guys use ruby only as the lower qualities of that style of port - fine with me, but there might be some misunderstanding if we dont use it in a standardized way. So why dont we get it straight. If we use the word ruby we mean ruby, otherwise lets go for the individual qualities, such as VP or LBV???

Axel

[KillerB]

Blame it on the shippers. They are the ones that call their low-grade Ports 'Rubies': Cockburn's Ruby, Cruz Ruby etc. Even the supermarkets call their low-end junk 'Ruby'. This is why we refer to anything that is ruby and non-vintage as such, whether it is called 'Ruby', 'Special Reserve' or anything else that they want to pass it off. We will always call the LBV and VP by those labels.

[Conky]

Agreed.

Common usage prevails.