Port brand abbreviations

[jdaw1]

I see we have settled on Mz with which I concur. I would prefer B for Burmester but more ambivalent on this one.

It’s looking like accepting the slight inconsistency of Mz and B.

I note we don't seem to have covered Quinta do Vallado? Have had some lovely aged tawnies from the producer (although they have produced some VPs).

Not many V…s have been used.: Vl? Vd? What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

[DRT]

What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

Quinta de Ventozelo.

[jdaw1]

What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

Quinta de Ventozelo.

Already in.

Vz = Quinta de Ventozelo

[DRT]

Where is the master list?

That isn't in the list on the first page.

[DRT]

Scratch that - I now see what is happening.

[Andy Velebil]

In regards to Passadouro.

From what I recall being told Niepoort (Dirk) was helping them in their early days when the new owners took it over. IIRC Dirk also helped with the blends. That relationship eventually ended. Those earlier Ports were simply bottled and distributed by Niepoort as Passadouro did not have the ability to do so then. It is best to consider Dirk a consultant to their project.

So in that regard, ignore the Niepoort. It is, and should be, listed soley as Qt. d. Passadouro.

[DRT]

In regards to Passadouro.

From what I recall being told Niepoort (Dirk) was helping them in their early days when the new owners took it over. IIRC Dirk also helped with the blends. That relationship eventually ended. Those earlier Ports were simply bottled and distributed by Niepoort as Passadouro did not have the ability to do so then. It is best to consider Dirk a consultant to their project.

So in that regard, ignore the Niepoort. It is, and should be, listed soley as Qt. d. Passadouro.

I agree with that.

[Glenn E.]

I note we don't seem to have covered Quinta do Vallado? Have had some lovely aged tawnies from the producer (although they have produced some VPs).

Not many V…s have been used.: Vl? Vd? What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

I would use either Va or Vl, leaning toward Vl. Absent an accent, in Portuguese the 2nd-to-last syllable is emphasized. Thus "va LAH do" making the 'd' approximately the 3rd option to my ear.

[jdaw1]

Va echoes too strongly with Vau.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[PhilW]

Vl sounds sensible to me. Note that there are quite a lot not in the list, but am not sure if we're trying to be completionist here.

[jdaw1]

completionist

Trying to include all the important names, where "important" means important to me.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[jdaw1]

Sandeman Quinta do Seixo = Sx? I know that some of you might prefer SSx, but I like the brevity and mischief of Sx.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Sandeman Quinta do Seixo = Sx? I know that some of you might prefer SSx, but I like the brevity and mischief of Sx.

True, I would prefer SSx so as to allow distinction from FrSx which was produced in the past.

[jdaw1]

to allow distinction from FrSx which was produced in the past.

Fair: ’82 and ’83 Ferreira had slipped my mind. In which case FrS and SS.

[Glenn E.]

to allow distinction from FrSx which was produced in the past.

Fair: ’82 and ’83 Ferreira had slipped my mind. In which case FrS and SS.

<rubber stamp of approval>

[Alex Bridgeman]

to allow distinction from FrSx which was produced in the past.

Fair: ’82 and ’83 Ferreira had slipped my mind. In which case FrS and SS.

I'm happy with that.

[Alex Bridgeman]

to allow distinction from FrSx which was produced in the past.

Fair: ’82 and ’83 Ferreira had slipped my mind. In which case FrS and SS.

<rubber stamp of approval>

Are you asking JDAW to create an emoticon for <<rubber stamp of approval>>? Please don't do that. You know what will happen if you do. There will be a new thread asking for specific parameters for the new emoticon. It will develop to be at least 200 pages long and this thread will drift way off topic.

[jdaw1]

Are you asking JDAW to create an emoticon for <<rubber stamp of approval>>? Please don't do that. You know what will happen if you do. There will be a new thread asking for specific parameters for the new emoticon. It will develop to be at least 200 pages long and this thread will drift way off topic.

We have things functionally equivalent to those: When they were made I was quite pleased with my file-size compression, which nobody else stopped to admire.

(And posts might be moved to Irrelevant badinage and like nonsense.)

[Alex Bridgeman]

Are you asking JDAW to create an emoticon for <<rubber stamp of approval>>? Please don't do that. You know what will happen if you do. There will be a new thread asking for specific parameters for the new emoticon. It will develop to be at least 200 pages long and this thread will drift way off topic.

We have things functionally equivalent to those: When they were made I was quite pleased with my file-size compression, which nobody else stopped to admire.

(And posts might be moved to Irrelevant badinage and like nonsense.)

I request that you wait a day or so for others to respond to the humour in the thread and then please do move. Or, if you think wiser to move immediately, please make it so. I support your decision either way.

[jdaw1]

Porto Valriz: ‘Vr’ or ‘Vz’?

[DRT]

Vr

[DRT]

What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

Quinta de Ventozelo.

Already in.

Vz = Quinta de Ventozelo

[jdaw1]

What other Quinta d… V…s might need either of these?

Quinta de Ventozelo.

Already in.

Vz = Quinta de Ventozelo

Oops. {Blushes!}

Vr then.

[jdaw1]

List in first post of this thread, which includes Bb = Broadbent (having consulted with Bartholomew Broadbent).

[DRT]

Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas

[jdaw1]

Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas

Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.

[DRT]

Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas

Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.

In works better than any of those alternatives.

[Doggett]

Io?

[jdaw1]

Io?

No. Consonants give gravitas and structure. Only vowels only when really necessary.

[Glenn E.]

Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).

[jdaw1]

Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).

As you say: no VP, no need. Do suggest — though it’s too late to go in the canonical list in The Book.

[flash_uk]

Planning for the 1970 Horizontal has revealed a handful of shippers without an agreed abbreviation:
Flagman
Lopes
Maia
Marks & Spencer own selection
Thienpont (Butler Nephew)

As a proposal, how about:
Fl - we already have FM for F Martins
Lp
Mi
MAS
Tp

Thoughts welcome.

[jdaw1]

Marks & Spencer own selection

…

MAS

If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?

Thienpont (Butler Nephew)

What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

Flagman

Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.

Lopes

…

Lp

Lp fits the general preference for hard consonants, and is available.

[flash_uk]

If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?

Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.

What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?

[jdaw1]

What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?

Bottler, so this is BN.

[PhilW]

What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?

Bottler, so this is BN.

Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.

[PhilW]

If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?

Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.

Am less keen on use of & (we normally drop it elsewhere e.g. BB&R, W&S etc).
Appreciate MS is less clear vs Ms, so MAS or MSp preferred by me (but perhaps only me?).

[PhilW]

Marks & Spencer own selection

Flagman

Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.

Agree Fm is more natural; but if anyone ever brings an "F. Martins" port along (not currently listed in abbreviations either), we won't want to use FM at that stage. I suggest adding both FM for "F. Martins" and therefore Fl for Flagman.

[jdaw1]

Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.

There is a grey region here. There are distinguishing qualities (BBR Ports supplied by, but not necessarily same blend as), but even that is not necessarily always true.

I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?

But I agree that this isn't a bright line.

[PhilW]

I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?

I looked at my list of BOBs, and have to admit that I don't know how many may/not be the same or different to suppliers' blends. I suspect they are the same in many cases, but cannot be sure. Also there are several for which I know of only one vintage sold under their own name (which doesn't mean there are not others, just that I'm not aware of them) such as Hedges and Butler - well known bottler for many producers, but I'm only aware of their own brand in '35 (which was Taylor).

Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient for them; Use Tp and M&S on the placemats for now, but don't add them to the canonical list?
Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).

[flash_uk]

I still haven't found anyone who has the M&S 1970, so it may be it doesn't matter for now about the abbreviation!

[jdaw1]

Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient … but don't add them to the canonical list?

Works for me.

Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).

Done: moved to the Reference section.

[nac]

Unless I can't see it, the list of abbreviations seems to be missing Churchill's Fojo?

Since it exists - viewtopic.php?p=102031 - should it be ChF?

[jdaw1]

It seems that we lack an abbreviation for Quinta Vale Dona Maria. Any objection to ‘DM’? (Separately, www.quintavaledonamaria.com seems to be not working.)

(Cross link: relevant in the Y2K tasting of 17 March 2020.)

[flash_uk]

It seems that we lack an abbreviation for Quinta Vale Dona Maria. Any objection to ‘DM’? (Separately, www.quintavaledonamaria.com seems to be not working.)

(Cross link: relevant in the Y2K tasting of 17 March 2020.)

I'd be more inclined to VD or VDM.
We already have DB, and DM could be misconstued as another Dow quinta perhaps?

[jdaw1]

But both ‘VD’ and ‘VDM’ could equally be misconstrued as a Vesuvio sub-quinta.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I prefer VDM. Although I take the point that VDM could be construed as a Vesuvio sub-quinta there are no single quinta wines made by Vesuvio whereas there are single quinta wines made by Dow — Bomfim and Senhora da Ribeira being the two current examples.

[flash_uk]

I prefer VDM. Although I take the point that VDM could be construed as a Vesuvio sub-quinta there are no single quinta wines made by Vesuvio whereas there are single quinta wines made by Dow — Bomfim and Senhora da Ribeira being the two current examples.

Yes given Julian’s observation about Vesuvio, VDM would be better as it uses all the letters of the shipper, and it’s more unlikely a Vesuvio off-shoot will appear with initials DM than with D.

[Alex Bridgeman]

DM could, perhaps, cause some confusion by being misconstrued as Dow Malvedos. I'm definitely voting for VDM.

[PhilW]

I'd agree with VDM as most obvious choice, and to my mind no more confusing with potential Vesuvio single quinta as Gould Campbell GC is with potential new Graham's single quinta (i.e. we already cope with this issue). Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?