1997 Maturity Evaluation, TBH, Mon 16 June 2014

[jdaw1]

You are chief organiser. Please simplify administration by saying “sighted”.

[flash_uk]

You are chief organiser. Please simplify administration by saying “sighted”.

Sighted
There will be enough to do without blinding, and considering the experience a few of us had recently with the 1994 tasting, I doubt we would be able to impart much wisdom upon our guesses with blind!

[jdaw1]

FYI, my previous 1997 horizontal: Sandeman Vau; Quinta da Eira Velha; Offley Boa Vista; Placemats.

[flash_uk]

Well...the line-up for the evening is bouncing around a bit. All the majors are sorted, the last 2 or 3 to make up the 18 are moving around. Surprising that I can't find Offley, Quarles Harris, Churchill or Sandeman. Still searching, but have found some others to stand in.

[jdaw1]

And please may I edit the first post to add placemats and images thereof?

Of course, and thank you.

Just to help me, I have put the ports into customary alphabetical order (so not all Quintas are with the Q’s), and added placemat images.

I’m endeavouring to obtain the hitherto unobtainable Sandeman and Offley. Endeavouring.

[jdaw1]

endeavouring to obtain the hitherto unobtainable Sandeman and Offley.

Stevens Garnier are on task, and optimistic that they will be able to obtain Sandeman, Offley, and Ferreira. (Yes, I know. Yes, I ignored.)

[idj123]

As mentioned in my original post re this tasting, I have Ferreira and so am happy to provide if a gap in the 18 requires filling.

[jdaw1]

As mentioned in my original post re this tasting, I have Ferreira and so am happy to provide if a gap in the 18 requires filling.

Ooops. Sandeman and Offley are important though.

First post shows placemats assuming availability of new printing technology: A2.

[DRT]

Gents,

I have put myself on a self-imposed alcohol ban for the next 5 weeks and will therefore be unable to attend this event.

Please give my seat to someone on the reserve list.

I have just re-visited the first post since the early days of the organisation and am bemused as to why I offered a Croft Roeda 1997 as I have never owned one. I can only assume I spotted one online that I intended buying and then forgot.

I will happily pay someone the cost of a Croft Roeda if anyone has one to hand. If not I will arrange to have one at the tasting in my absence.

If the seats cannot be filled and my ££ are required to avoid extra cost to others please let me know.

Apologies for the withdrawal but there are good reasons for me to do this.

DRT

[jdaw1]

There might be a “JDAW’s +1”.

[djewesbury]

Sorry, the dissertation marking is coming in thick and fast and I have neglected this thread somewhat. What can I adopt?

[PhilW]

I have put myself on a self-imposed alcohol ban for the next 5 weeks and will therefore be unable to attend this event.
I will happily pay someone the cost of a Croft Roeda if anyone has one to hand. If not I will arrange to have one at the tasting in my absence.

If no attendees have one handy, I have one bottle of CrR97 (the only bottle of '97 I own!) which could be dropped off at TBH on the 3rd June, since I will not be attending the '97 event, provided I knew in advance.

[DRT]

If no attendees have one handy, I have one bottle of CrR97 (the only bottle of '97 I own!) which could be dropped off at TBH on the 3rd June, since I will not be attending the '97 event, provided I knew in advance.

Thank you, Phil, but Tom has just offered to donate a Cr97 to fill the gap.

Thank you, Tom.

[jdaw1]

Ports likely to be present:

1. Cockburn — MPM;
2. Croft Roeda — THRA;
3. Dow — IDJ;
4. Ferreira — IDJ or JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
5. Fonseca — DaveRL;
6. Gould Campbell — MPM;
7. Graham — CPR1;
8. Quinta do Infantado — MPM;
9. Martinez — AHB;
10. Morgan — MPM;
11. Quinta do Noval — CMAG;
12. Offley — maybe JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
13. Quinta do Passadouro — Kindly donated by VintageWineAndPort.co.uk;
14. Ramos Pinto — IDJ;
15. Sandeman — maybe JDAW from Stevens Garnier;
16. Sandeman Vau — JDAW;
17. Smith Woodhouse — MPM;
18. Taylor — DaveRL;
19. Quinta do Vesuvio — THRA;
20. Warre — RDA?

We should divide the Ports into flights, and by a better criterion than alphabetical. Suggestions?

[flash_uk]

We should divide the Ports into flights, and by a better criterion than alphabetical. Suggestions?

I have an idea but will need to research and test it to determine if it would deliver an even split. Will need to wait until I have access to big screen and keyboard.

[jdaw1]

I have an idea but will need to research and test it to determine if it would deliver an even split. Will need to wait until I have access to big screen and keyboard.

An even split not needed. Indeed, splitting into pieces of three to five would facilitate discussion and analysis.

Geography?

[flash_uk]

Geography?

Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...

[DRT]

Geography?

Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...

Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.

[flash_uk]

Geography?

Yes I had something of geography in mind. North/South of the Duoro, East/West of some place...

Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.

I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste, just a way of splitting 20 ports up that isn't random!

[DRT]

I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste

Don't say that to someone in the Douro - you will be tarred and feathered!!

[jdaw1]

Very difficult and potentially misleading for full declarations. You can easily work out the geography of SQVPs but not full vintage blends.

Better suggestions welcomed.

[flash_uk]

I wasn't thinking the geography delineation would have any massive significance for taste

Don't say that to someone in the Douro - you will be tarred and feathered!!

Come on, you know what I mean. Maybe I'll make the point more accurate. I wasn't thinking of using a geographic delineation as a means to make any inference on taste.

[DRT]

Better suggestions welcomed.

Perhaps group by expectation of greatness*:

Flight 1: Dow, Fonseca, Graham, Noval, Taylor, Warre, Vesuvio.

Flight 2: Ferreira, Gould Campbell, Ramos Pinto, Sandeman, Sandeman Vau**, Smith Woodhouse.

Flight 3: Cockburn, Croft Roeda, Infantado, Martinez, Morgan, Offley, Passadouro.

*expectation based on reputation of VP from each house in the relevant time period - e.g. Cockburn expected to be rubbish.
**possibly should be in flight 3 but sensible to taste alongside the full blend Sandeman.

A very subjective selection but it would give the opportunity to taste each against wines of a similar expected standard and (probably) price point.

[djewesbury]

This is tricky. We would expect Cockburn to be rubbish, but might find the Passadouro very good. Yet it ends up in a group with some wines that can only be expected to show poorly.

[DRT]

This is tricky. We would expect Cockburn to be rubbish, but might find the Passadouro very good. Yet it ends up in a group with some wines that can only be expected to show poorly.

But isn't this only for the first pass? There would be time to shuffle the pack post-dinner to put the good, the bad and the ugly into their real groups.

[jdaw1]

If only the IVDP were competent enough to keep and publish the chemistry statistics (Baumé, acidity, whatever) …

[djewesbury]

If there is a minimal chance of Andy V taking his seat at this event can I put a request for a +1 in (IJ, dexter)? If confirmed, I will cancel the tasting tentatively scheduled for Fri 13th.

[flash_uk]

Gents,

I have put myself on a self-imposed alcohol ban for the next 5 weeks and will therefore be unable to attend this event.

Please give my seat to someone on the reserve list.

I have just re-visited the first post since the early days of the organisation and am bemused as to why I offered a Croft Roeda 1997 as I have never owned one. I can only assume I spotted one online that I intended buying and then forgot.

I will happily pay someone the cost of a Croft Roeda if anyone has one to hand. If not I will arrange to have one at the tasting in my absence.

If the seats cannot be filled and my ££ are required to avoid extra cost to others please let me know.

Apologies for the withdrawal but there are good reasons for me to do this.

DRT

You will be missed! CrR supply subsequently resolved I see. Hope we see you not long after your 5 weeks are up.

[flash_uk]

Sorry, the dissertation marking is coming in thick and fast and I have neglected this thread somewhat. What can I adopt?

I have sourced various bottles for this event, so no need to worry, some kind of financial rebalance will take place!

If there is a minimal chance of Andy V taking his seat at this event can I put a request for a +1 in (IJ, dexter)? If confirmed, I will cancel the tasting tentatively scheduled for Fri 13th.

I'll check with Andy and the others on the reserve list one last time and then confirm if the place can be freed.

[djewesbury]

Sorry, the dissertation marking is coming in thick and fast and I have neglected this thread somewhat. What can I adopt?

I have sourced various bottles for this event, so no need to worry, some kind of financial rebalance will take place!

If there is a minimal chance of Andy V taking his seat at this event can I put a request for a +1 in (IJ, dexter)? If confirmed, I will cancel the tasting tentatively scheduled for Fri 13th.

I'll check with Andy and the others on the reserve list one last time and then confirm if the place can be freed.

Thank you twice!

[flash_uk]

If there is a minimal chance of Andy V taking his seat at this event can I put a request for a +1 in (IJ, dexter)? If confirmed, I will cancel the tasting tentatively scheduled for Fri 13th.

Daniel - place confirmed for IJ.

[djewesbury]

If there is a minimal chance of Andy V taking his seat at this event can I put a request for a +1 in (IJ, dexter)? If confirmed, I will cancel the tasting tentatively scheduled for Fri 13th.

Daniel - place confirmed for IJ.

Wonderful! Thank you.

[flash_uk]

I have found a source for Quarles Harris 1997, however it would cost about £64 inclusive of delivery. A case of 12 is about £240 retail elsewhere. Hmmm. I am in three minds.

1. £4.50 each to potentially discover QH97 is not half bad, and then feeling good about buying a case for £20 per bottle seems alright;
2. What a rip off;
3. Do we really need another glass alongside the current 20 glasses?

Thoughts?

[djewesbury]

The amount of QH94 I've drunk at ≤£20 (albeit labelled as Tesco), I'm not certain I'd pay this much for 97. Very pleasant, at just over £1.40 a glass, but not necessary otherwise.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm happy to pass on the chance to try QH97 after having tried 20 other different ports from the same vintage. I should have enough information to be able to judge whether the vintage is mature and drinking well before my 21st glass.

[jdaw1]

Not enough room on the placemats.

[jdaw1]

My guest has confirmed.

AWGH = Anthony Habert of Stevens Garnier

[flash_uk]

My guest has confirmed.

AWGH = Anthony Habert of Stevens Garnier

Excellent. Once I hear from Axel, then we have attendance all sorted, with potentially one place left depending on what happens. Fingers crossed that Stevens Garnier can magic up the missing bottles also

[jdaw1]

Have you decided the division into flights? And have you any comment on the draft of the placemats?

[flash_uk]

Have you decided the division into flights? And have you any comment on the draft of the placemats?

Quite like the proposal of flights roughly according to expectation of greatness. This would avoid the situation of perhaps finding Fonseca as the final glass of 20. Placemats look good. One potential enhancement - do the rows need to be dovetailed so closely? If we only have three rows, then if they could have slightly more space in between then it would be easier to distinguish the flights. I will make the necessary enquiries today about physical production and media.

[djewesbury]

Have you decided the division into flights? And have you any comment on the draft of the placemats?

You always insist on an accent for Cálem, yet you omit it for Roêda. Sorry. I am channelling my Portuguese teacher.

[djewesbury]

I also have a question regarding Feuerheerd's and Passadouro's respective placings. Wasn't the Ps97 already being made by Dirk? I am almost certain I've had it and found it good. Fr is a less good proposition to my mind. Are they candidates for swapping?

[flash_uk]

I also have a question regarding Feuerheerd's and Passadouro's respective placings. Wasn't the Ps97 already being made by Dirk? I am almost certain I've had it and found it good. Fr is a less good proposition to my mind. Are they candidates for swapping?

Fr = Ferreira

[djewesbury]

I also have a question regarding Feuerheerd's and Passadouro's respective placings. Wasn't the Ps97 already being made by Dirk? I am almost certain I've had it and found it good. Fr is a less good proposition to my mind. Are they candidates for swapping?

Fr = Ferreira

*adopts low voice, looks at ceiling*
I knew that.

[flash_uk]

For various good reasons (below) QH is off the menu.

The amount of QH94 I've drunk at ≤£20 (albeit labelled as Tesco), I'm not certain I'd pay this much for 97. Very pleasant, at just over £1.40 a glass, but not necessary otherwise.

I'm happy to pass on the chance to try QH97 after having tried 20 other different ports from the same vintage. I should have enough information to be able to judge whether the vintage is mature and drinking well before my 21st glass.

Not enough room on the placemats.

[jdaw1]

One potential enhancement - do the rows need to be dovetailed so closely? If we only have three rows, then if they could have slightly more space in between then it would be easier to distinguish the flights.

I had them dovetailed as tightly as possible, to save table space. Now less tightly.

Roêda.

Sackcloth and ashes. And fixed.

[flash_uk]

Right then. The prototype of the placemat on A2 has turned out very nice indeed, printed on media which is heavier than bog standard A4 paper, but not stiff card. I will have these made up on the day, with the additional aspect of having 6 inches of the white space at the bottom cut off so that there is no risk that the placemat overhangs the edge of the table.

I also propose that we adopt the pouring method used recently at the 60 vs 63 tasting, whereby bottles are circulated for self pouring in tranches (we can use the flights as a tranche), and each tranche of bottles is held on ice for a period prior to pouring.

[jdaw1]

There has been a small accident: Stevens Garnier were also able to obtain Sandeman Vau 1997 in ¾l, and somehow I failed to refuse. Sorry folks.

[jdaw1]

There has been a small accident: Stevens Garnier were also able to obtain Sandeman Vau 1997 in ¾l, and somehow I failed to refuse. Sorry folks.

Adding an extra circle has switched the layout of the placemats from three rows to four. Except that four rows holds 22, and we currently have a thirst-inducing mere 21. Oh dear. Holes are just not good. Not good.

(See comment in the thread entitled Software that makes placemats.)

I have found a source for Quarles Harris 1997, however it would cost about £64 inclusive of delivery. A case of 12 is about £240 retail elsewhere. Hmmm. I am in three minds.

1. £4.50 each to potentially discover QH97 is not half bad, and then feeling good about buying a case for £20 per bottle seems alright;
2. What a rip off;
3. Do we really need another glass alongside the current 20 glasses?

Thoughts?

My previous reply

Not enough room on the placemats.

is obviously invalided by recent developments. Does that mean…?

[Alex Bridgeman]

Surely that means we now have a space in which to put our water glass?