Software that makes placemats

[DRT]

Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.

Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.

[jdaw1]

I also have considered trying to adapt it for another use, but the time to tweak output seems a little prohibitive to me. Here is my use case: Best of show judging at a beer competition. All beers are first judged in their individual categories. Then the best of each category goes on to a best of show round. Now we have some large number (say 30) of beers to pick from, blind. But for each we have an entry number and a style (alphanumeric indicator and description, like "4A: Belgian Golden Strong").

Is “4A: Belgian Golden Strong” a category? If so, could you use the likes of the following?

Code: Select all

/Titles [ … (4A) …  ] def
/Circlearrays [
	…
	[ (Belgian Golden Strong)  (4A)  ]
	…
] def

The vote-recorder sheets would be used. Do you need a separate v-r sheet each, with column titles being points categories (nose, taste, gets you sauced quickly, etc)? That fits into the current code, though some re-arrangements of parameters might help.

If not, what is known? Is it that there will be only one ‘4’ beer, and it could be 4A or 4B or 4C or … or 4Z?

Please could you post more data.

[jdaw1]

Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.

Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.

One PDF for each number of glasses; glasses sheets and TN sheets at end so user chooses last page to print and thereby chooses effective number of people. Or have 14 people on the voting sheets, and one set of glasses/TN pages with a blank name: print as many copies as needed.

[DRT]

Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.

Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.

One PDF for each number of glasses; glasses sheets and TN sheets at end so user chooses last page to print and thereby chooses effective number of people. Or have 14 people on the voting sheets, and one set of glasses/TN pages with a blank name: print as many copies as needed.

Yes, that would work, but includes the user picking and downloading a file from somewhere. Compare that to an App on an iPhone (or, if you are staunchly Glenn, a lesser device) >> launch >> x drinks >> y drinkers >> print. No having to find the files, no choosing the correct one, no downloading, just six or seven clicks and you have a complete set of placemats.

[foomench]

I really stirred this pot it seems. In my beer use case, we don't need score sheets, aren't really concerned about drinker names ... Detailed notes have already been recorded and entered into the competition software for the 300 or 1000 beers judged. (There are a couple different programs out there for this.) This is the final elimination round and we just want to keep from mixing things up. 3 or 5 judges take sheets of paper and stewards pour the BOS qualifiers. Judges sample everything. "Got anything you would knock out?" A whole bunch of beers go away if there are no objections. Then people start ranking them and talking about them, taking another sip, sitting them back down. You might scribble something on your grid/placement. More things get knocked out ...

I'll see if I can draw up one of these improvised placemats for inspiration some time.

[jdaw1]

I really stirred this pot it seems.

Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.

• Do you know that there will be on ‘4’ beer?
• Do you know that there will be on ‘4A’ beer?
• Is there any level of the hierarchy of specification such that you know, at that level of ontology, how many beers there will be?

[DRT]

In my beer use case, we don't need score sheets, aren't really concerned about drinker names ... Detailed notes have already been recorded and entered into the competition software for the 300 or 1000 beers judged. (There are a couple different programs out there for this.) This is the final elimination round and we just want to keep from mixing things up. 3 or 5 judges take sheets of paper and stewards pour the BOS qualifiers. Judges sample everything. "Got anything you would knock out?" A whole bunch of beers go away if there are no objections. Then people start ranking them and talking about them, taking another sip, sitting them back down. You might scribble something on your grid/placement. More things get knocked out ...

A perfect use for example 2:

1. Launch Placemat Wizard and choose "Include Drink Names"
2. Enter a list of drinks (max 50?) in one box, one name per line.
3. Enter the number of drinkers.
4. Print.

[DRT]

I really stirred this pot it seems.

Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.

By your own admission elsewhere in this thread writing a wizard is not your forte. You therefore do not need to know what to do with this request other than to give a stable version of the code to someone who does.

[jdaw1]

give a stable version of the code to someone who does.

Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.

Calling for volunteers to write Derek’s wizard?

[jdaw1]

Eric: please don't be distracted by Derek's enthusiasm for a wizard. Please do answer the beer questions.

[djewesbury]

Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.

A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.

[jdaw1]

Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.

A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.

Agreed. It’s a mess. (which is our lowest grade of star) indeed.

• What matters is the stability of the parameters that the wizard might alter. The code and the other parameters need not be stable.

[DRT]

Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.

A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.

Agreed. It’s a mess. (which is our lowest grade of star) indeed.

• What matters is the stability of the parameters that the wizard might alter. The code and the other parameters need not be stable.

Semantics. It is a single file and to a non-programmer is reasonably considered to be a file of "code". By stable I mean "not being tinkered with by JDAW".

[jdaw1]

Semantics. It is a single file and to a non-programmer is reasonably considered to be a file of "code". By stable I mean "not being tinkered with by JDAW".

Not semantics. Later improvements to the code that do not effect the parameters controlled by the wizard could be very easily included in the wizard version.

What is missing is somebody volunteering to build your wizard. You find the volunteer; I will assist that person.

[foomench]

I really stirred this pot it seems.

Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.
• Do you know that there will be on ‘4’ beer?
• Do you know that there will be on ‘4A’ beer?
• Is there any level of the hierarchy of specification such that you know, at that level of ontology, how many beers there will be?

The general answer to all the above is no. There need not be any hierarchy maintained, but ordering would be nice. The style guidelines are set (but subject to update, as the 2015 just came out to supersede the 2008), but at any given competition categories may be split or combined based on the number of entries. A BOS judging may have one "11" English Bitter, which happens to be an "11A" Ordinary Bitter, but there could be both an 11A and an 11B, or no 11s at all. Some competitions exclude certain categories, and judges in the early rounds may choose not to award a 1st place, which means nothing from that pool will advance.

I might volunteer to make a wizard some day, but it won't be too soon. The next beer competition that I will help out with, beyond just judging, will probably be next March. That might be the time I work on something.

[jdaw1]

That was helpful. But what output do you want? What is it that you hand-scribble?

[PhilW]

A question/request; I am hosting a tasting next month where I will not know the names of the attendees in advance. I wish to print sets of glasses and tasting note pages for each attendee, and it would seem sensible to provide a location (on both pages?) for the attendee to put their initials/name.

Various solutions come to mind - I could potential use blank definitions for the attendees initials, or perhaps "....." or "Name: .........." in the initials field. Before I start testing what might look best, is there already an intended method/approach for this scenario?

[jdaw1]

One possibility includes something like

Code: Select all

/Names [ () ] def
/NamesVoteRecorder [ 14 {()} repeat ] def

That makes only one set of glasses and TN pages, which are printed as many times as are needed. But the vote-recorder page would have enough for columns for its purpose.

[jdaw1]

Usually bugs are fixed silently. But notice should be given of the most recent bug fix: the code used an incorrect size for A4.

Erroneously I had believed that A4 was 250mm÷√√2 by 250mm×√√2, which ≈ 210.224mm×297.302mm. No, not so: in a different conversation mention was made of ISO 216, which iteratively rounds the A and B paper sizes to integer numbers of mm. A4 is actually 210mm×297mm, precisely, the area of which is 0.208% smaller than that in the previous code (0.06237m² rather than 0.0625m²).

The code (HTML, PostScript) now uses the slightly smaller but on-standard A and B page sizes, and hence radii and titles and such like features are also slightly smaller.

But only slightly. Unless you look carefully, you might not notice.

[jdaw1]

Re the placemats for the 1985 horizontal on Wednesday 25^th November:

…

Code: Select all

/ExternalLinks [  % Array, length a multiple of three:  indented0-boolean, (Descriptor0), (http://URL0),  indented1-boolean, (Descriptor1), (http://URL1),  ...
	false   (Review at ThePortForum.com)     (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10381&view=unread#unread)
		true    [(C) /aacute (lem 1985, TN)]     (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10394&view=unread#unread)
		true    (M Gonzalez 1985, TN)            (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10395&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Delaforce 1985, TN)             (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10396&view=unread#unread)
		true    (J. H. Andresen 1985, TN)        (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10397&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Quinta do Noval 1985, TN)       (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10398&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Offley Boa Vista 1985, TN)      (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10399&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Churchill 1985, TN)             (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10400&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Sandeman 1985, TN)              (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10401&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Martinez 1985, TN)              (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10402&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Gould Campbell 1985, TN)        (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10403&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Quarles Harris 1985, TN)        (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10404&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Smith Woodhouse 1985, TN)       (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10405&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Ramos Pinto 1985, TN)           (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10406&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Taylor 1985, TN)                (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10407&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Fonseca 1985, TN)               (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10408&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Dow 1985, TN)                   (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10409&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Graham 1985, TN)                (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10410&view=unread#unread)
		true    (Warre 1985, TN)                 (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10411&view=unread#unread)
	false   (Planning at ThePortForum.com)   (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10175&view=unread#unread)
	false   (Latest version this placemat)   (http://www.jdawiseman.com/2015/20151125_1985s.pdf)
		true    (in list of placemats)           (http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/placemat/placemats_list.html#a20151125)
		true    (parameters by which made)       (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=96335#p96335)
	false   (Food order)                     (http://www.jdawiseman.com/2015/20151125_ThePortForum_food.pdf)
	false   (Boot & Flogger)                 (http://www.davy.co.uk/wine-bar/boot-and-flogger/)
		true    (SE1 1TA, streetmap.co.uk)       (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=532409&y=180083&z=106&pc=SE1+1TA)
		true    (SE1 1TA, maps.google.co.uk)     (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?z=20&t=k&layer=c&cbll=51.50428,-0.0935&cbp=11,260,,0,0)
		true    (SE1 1TA, bing.com)              (http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?where1=SE1+1TA&cp=51.50428~-0.0935)
] def

…
• ExternalLinks contains the TN threads — at least those created before the tasting. Is this a good idea?

Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)

[Glenn E.]

Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)

Maybe? Not for me, as I never use external links. (PDF is never used digitally. I use the .ps to create it, then print it, so any functions requiring opening the PDF on a computer are lost to me.)

[flash_uk]

Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)

I would say not vital. Implies a level of preparedness and planning to create the TN threads in advance of finalising the pdf.

[DRT]

I am struggling to think of any downside.

[PhilW]

Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)

I would say that it would only be worthwhile if it might be used. If looking to find details of an old tasting, I expect most people would be more likely to search the forum than to search an archive of post-tasting-modified placemat sheets. However, I also see no down-side except for the whole "placemats should serve as a permanent record and therefore should not be altered after the event" argument, where I am outnumbered; once post-tasting update of placemats is allowed, I see no problem with this, but also little likelihood of use.

[foomench]

It is kind of a neat feature in the PDF, but in my use no one would ever use it. Attendees at my events will use the paper, and have other means of finding the relevant threads on forums, etc.

[jdaw1]

I see no problem with this, but also little likelihood of use.

This seems to be the consensus.

I like a PDF to have a route home, so that if it appears on another website, as they do, a user has a pointer back to whence it came. A link to just the review thread, or even the planning thread, suffices for that. So the full set of TN threads is a little work (even though only a little) for less gain.

[jdaw1]

As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.

Sure. But what should it be?

[flash_uk]

As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.

Sure. But what should it be?

Something like this perhaps.

Picture1s.jpg (30.44 KiB) Viewed 60058 times

The bottles contribution line is completed at the start of the evening, a per person average computed (in this case 41.50), and this is also completed in the bottle cost line. Once the bill arrives, the meal cost per person is completed. Finally the calculation is made column by column for who owes/is owed.

[uncle tom]

Something like that would be very helpful - thankyou..

[jdaw1]

In the voting sheets, there is one column per name (example on right). This arrangement was chosen partly because, happily, we typically have more wines than people. This is the same arrangement as Mike’s spreadsheet.

But the Accounting page has only a few fields per name, so it seems more natural to have one name per row rather than one name per column, which is the transpose of Mike’s spreadsheet. Objections?

Draft parameters:

Code: Select all

/AccountingNumCopies 1 def

/AccountingTopText (Accounting) def

/AccountingColumnTitles [  % Array of even length, alternately header for group of columns, and array of those columns' headers
[
	(Bestowals)  [ (Wine) ]
	(Costs)      [ (Food &c)  (Wines) ]
	(Settlement) [ (Owes) (Is owed) [(P) /quoteright {-0.08 Kern} (d?)] ]
] def

/AccountingColumnRelativeWidths [ 4 4 4 4 4 1 ] def

/AccountingExtraRows [ () (Total) () ] def

Comment welcomed. Notes follow.

AccountingNumCopies: Inserted following Flash’s suggestion three posts below.

AccountingTopText: must be a parameter to allow non-English possibilities.

AccountingColumnTitles: In the instance in which a group of columns has only one column, the group’s column title should be short: hence “Bestowals” rather than “Contributions”. Do suggest better. Also, should there be a few columns with blank titles? If so, within the groups already present, or in a new blank group?

AccountingColumnRelativeWidths: allows “P’d?” column to ne narrow, holding no more than a tick.

AccountingExtraRows: extra rows under those of the names, to cope with extra people, sub-calculations, changes of mind, &c.

Is this wanted? Is this what is wanted?

[PhilW]

As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.

Sure. But what should it be?

I would suggest it should not be. Several reasons:
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (note the accuracy of voting summations).
- This is only really relevant for larger tastings where either a large amount of wine comes from a subset of the individuals, or there is significant disparity due to some bringing much older wines. In previous tastings (at least some of those I have organised) some people have been very generous in providing their (significant) contribution either as "if this covers me, I don't want anything more for it" or at very low cost. Such gentlemanly behaviour is appreciated and should not be discouraged (and yes I think group analysis might do so).
- Given such variations, a spreadsheet is more reliable.
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (I know, I said it already, but it's the most important reason).

[Glenn E.]

- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (I know, I said it already, but it's the most important reason).

Translated into post-tasting speak:

- doing the calcing-thing not now right. Hey is that bottle empty?

I have no objections, but likely wouldn't use the function. If there are remunerations to be made, I calculate and distribute them prior to the event (and bring a copy with me).

[flash_uk]

As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.

Sure. But what should it be?

I would suggest it should not be. Several reasons:
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (note the accuracy of voting summations).
- This is only really relevant for larger tastings where either a large amount of wine comes from a subset of the individuals, or there is significant disparity due to some bringing much older wines. In previous tastings (at least some of those I have organised) some people have been very generous in providing their (significant) contribution either as "if this covers me, I don't want anything more for it" or at very low cost. Such gentlemanly behaviour is appreciated and should not be discouraged (and yes I think group analysis might do so).
- Given such variations, a spreadsheet is more reliable.
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (I know, I said it already, but it's the most important reason).

I'm not sure it's such a bad thing. I agree this is only really relevant for the bigger tastings with an imbalance in bottle provision - the sheet can be an optional, like many others in the software. It is true that attempting the calculations during, or at the end of the tasting could lead to error, however that is not caused by having a sheet available. It happens because 13 or 14 people are standing around with cash/cards in their hand trying to be helpful and make a fair contribution. Sheet or no sheet, Tom found himself needing to undertake difficult maths at a less that ideal time - the sheet could only have helped I believe! And there is nothing to stop gentlemanly contribution continuing, which is always appreciated

[jdaw1]

the sheet can be an optional, like many others in the software.

…

Code: Select all

/AccountingNumCopies 1 def

…
AccountingNumCopies: Inserted following Flash’s suggestion three posts below.

There would also have to be administrative parameters such as PageOrderingAccounting, and perhaps others.

[uncle tom]

If one has all the numbers to hand in advance, then a computation at a sober moment is preferable, but that's only possible at a minority of events - the food bill is usually variable, and late additions and deletions to the wine list are not uncommon.

A simple computation sheet would therefore assist..

[DRT]

Experience tells me that shared costs should be calculated, notified and settled in advance of large structured tastings. If people then decide to bring extras or not show up that is their choice. Ideally the bottles should also be collected in advance to eliminate the problem of late withdrawals or no shows on the day.

[jdaw1]

… not the best time to do the calculation …
… a spreadsheet is more reliable…

… should …

I agree with both of you.

… optional…
… Sheet or no sheet, Tom found himself needing to undertake difficult maths at a less that ideal time - the sheet could only have helped …

If one has all the numbers to hand in advance, then a computation at a sober moment is preferable, but that's only possible at a minority of events - the food bill is usually variable, and late additions and deletions to the wine list are not uncommon.

A simple computation sheet would therefore assist..

I agree that this is alien to Planet Should, and really belongs on Asteroid Helpful. Which is a yes, partly grudging. Would it be sensible for the default to be that it appears if the length of Names is ≥7?

[DRT]

I don't think what appears to have happened to Tom this time should be encouraged.

[jdaw1]

Do you believe that the existence of an Accounting sheet on the placemats would materially discourage or disincentivise early administration?

[DRT]

Yes. "I'll sort it out on the night" could become the normal behaviour.

[jdaw1]

"I'll sort it out on the night" could become the normal behaviour.

Why the conditional mood? With very few exceptions^†, we do attempt to “sort it out on the night”. It has been suggested that if the Accounting page exists, we would attempt it neither more nor less often — i.e., it would remain “the normal behaviour” — but might be done more accurately.

Do you agree with these assertions?

† So far this year, I recall only the 1985 horizontal in which finances were computed in advance. And even those were altered on the night.

[DRT]

Admittedly, I have not been to many tastings recently. Normal behaviour for this part of the organisation appears to have changed. As I am unlikely to organise a major tasting in the foreseeable future my view on the matter is of little or no significance.

[jdaw1]

Admittedly, I have not been to many tastings recently. Normal behaviour for this part of the organisation appears to have changed.

For the verticals, in which a minority of bottles were the majority of the cost, accounting needs more attention. We seem to have been doing horizontals recently.

As I am unlikely to organise a major tasting in the foreseeable future my view on the matter is of little or no significance.

The matter is settled democratically, by a weighted vote, in which my vote is the only one with non-zero weight. Good reasoning is what matters; not whether you will organise a tasting.

[jdaw1]

Please comment:


(Edited to update image.)

[flash_uk]

The accounts page looks good to me. Presumably with 4 people at the test tasting, it was not put to use?

[jdaw1]

Presumably with 4 people at the test tasting, it was not put to use?

Correct. My home printer isn’t happy, and I wanted to see a page — which has resulted in some minor improvements to the aesthetic.

[jdaw1]

How many glasses can sensibly go on one sheet of /USL2 = US Ledger = 17″×11″? This has been discussed on . As a test Eric Menchen printed this test PDF (which has pages of 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, and 21 glasses), and has posted photographs of glasses on these 17″×11″ pages. Answer: sixteen.

[DRT]

How many glasses can sensibly go on one sheet of /USL2 = US Ledger = 17″×11″? This has been discussed on . As a test Eric Menchen printed this test PDF (which has pages of 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, and 21 glasses), and has posted photographs of glasses on these 17″×11″ pages. Answer: sixteen.

Surely this depends on which style of glasses are used?

[jdaw1]

Surely this depends on which style of glasses are used?

Yes.

I used a Schott Zwiesel SIZA Port Wine Glass. I think this the same as an IVDP glass. It has a squared stem with a notch in it. The base diamter is 2¾", whereas the bowl appears to have a maximum diameter of 2½".

[Glenn E.]

The SZ has a larger base than the INAO tasting glass. I have held tastings with both 18 and 20 INAO glasses on /USL2 and it works fine. Examples, in fact, can be seen in Roy's most recent newsletter.