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Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.jdaw1 wrote:Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.
Is “4A: Belgian Golden Strong” a category? If so, could you use the likes of the following?foomench wrote:I also have considered trying to adapt it for another use, but the time to tweak output seems a little prohibitive to me. Here is my use case: Best of show judging at a beer competition. All beers are first judged in their individual categories. Then the best of each category goes on to a best of show round. Now we have some large number (say 30) of beers to pick from, blind. But for each we have an entry number and a style (alphanumeric indicator and description, like "4A: Belgian Golden Strong").
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/Titles [ … (4A) … ] def
/Circlearrays [
…
[ (Belgian Golden Strong) (4A) ]
…
] defOne PDF for each number of glasses; glasses sheets and TN sheets at end so user chooses last page to print and thereby chooses effective number of people. Or have 14 people on the voting sheets, and one set of glasses/TN pages with a blank name: print as many copies as needed.DRT wrote:Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.jdaw1 wrote:Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.
Yes, that would work, but includes the user picking and downloading a file from somewhere. Compare that to an App on an iPhone (or, if you are staunchly Glenn, a lesser device) >> launch >> x drinks >> y drinkers >> print. No having to find the files, no choosing the correct one, no downloading, just six or seven clicks and you have a complete set of placemats.jdaw1 wrote:One PDF for each number of glasses; glasses sheets and TN sheets at end so user chooses last page to print and thereby chooses effective number of people. Or have 14 people on the voting sheets, and one set of glasses/TN pages with a blank name: print as many copies as needed.DRT wrote:Let's call that Example 0. Not everyone wants to waste paper.jdaw1 wrote:Example 1 could be pre-canned: 4 to 12 drinks (I, II, III, IV, …); 14 drinkers (A, B, C, …, N); A4 or 8½″×11″.
Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.foomench wrote:I really stirred this pot it seems.
A perfect use for example 2:foomench wrote:In my beer use case, we don't need score sheets, aren't really concerned about drinker names ... Detailed notes have already been recorded and entered into the competition software for the 300 or 1000 beers judged. (There are a couple different programs out there for this.) This is the final elimination round and we just want to keep from mixing things up. 3 or 5 judges take sheets of paper and stewards pour the BOS qualifiers. Judges sample everything. "Got anything you would knock out?" A whole bunch of beers go away if there are no objections. Then people start ranking them and talking about them, taking another sip, sitting them back down. You might scribble something on your grid/placement. More things get knocked out ...
By your own admission elsewhere in this thread writing a wizard is not your forte. You therefore do not need to know what to do with this request other than to give a stable version of the code to someone who does.jdaw1 wrote:Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.foomench wrote:I really stirred this pot it seems.
Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.DRT wrote:give a stable version of the code to someone who does.
A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.jdaw1 wrote:Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.
Agreed. It’s a mess.djewesbury wrote:A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.jdaw1 wrote:Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.
(which is our lowest grade of star) indeed.Semantics. It is a single file and to a non-programmer is reasonably considered to be a file of "code". By stable I mean "not being tinkered with by JDAW".jdaw1 wrote:Agreed. It’s a mess.djewesbury wrote:A perfect example of how to render the language impenetrable through the thoroughly correct use of grammar. Brown star for you.jdaw1 wrote:Actually, it suffices for it to be a version of the code the parameters of which the wizard might change are stable.
- What matters is the stability of the parameters that the wizard might alter. The code and the other parameters need not be stable.
Not semantics. Later improvements to the code that do not effect the parameters controlled by the wizard could be very easily included in the wizard version.DRT wrote:Semantics. It is a single file and to a non-programmer is reasonably considered to be a file of "code". By stable I mean "not being tinkered with by JDAW".
The general answer to all the above is no. There need not be any hierarchy maintained, but ordering would be nice. The style guidelines are set (but subject to update, as the 2015 just came out to supersede the 2008), but at any given competition categories may be split or combined based on the number of entries. A BOS judging may have one "11" English Bitter, which happens to be an "11A" Ordinary Bitter, but there could be both an 11A and an 11B, or no 11s at all. Some competitions exclude certain categories, and judges in the early rounds may choose not to award a 1st place, which means nothing from that pool will advance.jdaw1 wrote:Requests have improved the software. I need to understand the request and its generality before knowing what to do with it.foomench wrote:I really stirred this pot it seems.
• Do you know that there will be on ‘4’ beer?
• Do you know that there will be on ‘4A’ beer?
• Is there any level of the hierarchy of specification such that you know, at that level of ontology, how many beers there will be?
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/Names [ () ] def
/NamesVoteRecorder [ 14 {()} repeat ] def
Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)In the thread [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=96335#p96335]Parameters for the placemat software[/url] jdaw1 wrote:……Code: Select all
/ExternalLinks [ % Array, length a multiple of three: indented0-boolean, (Descriptor0), (http://URL0), indented1-boolean, (Descriptor1), (http://URL1), ... false (Review at ThePortForum.com) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10381&view=unread#unread) true [(C) /aacute (lem 1985, TN)] (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10394&view=unread#unread) true (M Gonzalez 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10395&view=unread#unread) true (Delaforce 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10396&view=unread#unread) true (J. H. Andresen 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10397&view=unread#unread) true (Quinta do Noval 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10398&view=unread#unread) true (Offley Boa Vista 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10399&view=unread#unread) true (Churchill 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10400&view=unread#unread) true (Sandeman 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10401&view=unread#unread) true (Martinez 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10402&view=unread#unread) true (Gould Campbell 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10403&view=unread#unread) true (Quarles Harris 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10404&view=unread#unread) true (Smith Woodhouse 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10405&view=unread#unread) true (Ramos Pinto 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10406&view=unread#unread) true (Taylor 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10407&view=unread#unread) true (Fonseca 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10408&view=unread#unread) true (Dow 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10409&view=unread#unread) true (Graham 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10410&view=unread#unread) true (Warre 1985, TN) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10411&view=unread#unread) false (Planning at ThePortForum.com) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10175&view=unread#unread) false (Latest version this placemat) (http://www.jdawiseman.com/2015/20151125_1985s.pdf) true (in list of placemats) (http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/placemat/placemats_list.html#a20151125) true (parameters by which made) (http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=96335#p96335) false (Food order) (http://www.jdawiseman.com/2015/20151125_ThePortForum_food.pdf) false (Boot & Flogger) (http://www.davy.co.uk/wine-bar/boot-and-flogger/) true (SE1 1TA, streetmap.co.uk) (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=532409&y=180083&z=106&pc=SE1+1TA) true (SE1 1TA, maps.google.co.uk) (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?z=20&t=k&layer=c&cbll=51.50428,-0.0935&cbp=11,260,,0,0) true (SE1 1TA, bing.com) (http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?where1=SE1+1TA&cp=51.50428~-0.0935) ] def
• ExternalLinks contains the TN threads — at least those created before the tasting. Is this a good idea?
Maybe? Not for me, as I never use external links. (PDF is never used digitally. I use the .ps to create it, then print it, so any functions requiring opening the PDF on a computer are lost to me.)jdaw1 wrote:Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)
I would say not vital. Implies a level of preparedness and planning to create the TN threads in advance of finalising the pdf.jdaw1 wrote:Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)
I would say that it would only be worthwhile if it might be used. If looking to find details of an old tasting, I expect most people would be more likely to search the forum than to search an archive of post-tasting-modified placemat sheets. However, I also see no down-side except for the whole "placemats should serve as a permanent record and therefore should not be altered after the event" argument, where I am outnumbered; once post-tasting update of placemats is allowed, I see no problem with this, but also little likelihood of use.jdaw1 wrote:Is it a good idea? (See “§ External Links” area in image.)
This seems to be the consensus.PhilW wrote:I see no problem with this, but also little likelihood of use.
Something like this perhaps.jdaw1 wrote:As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.
Sure. But what should it be?
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/AccountingNumCopies 1 def
/AccountingTopText (Accounting) def
/AccountingColumnTitles [ % Array of even length, alternately header for group of columns, and array of those columns' headers
[
(Bestowals) [ (Wine) ]
(Costs) [ (Food &c) (Wines) ]
(Settlement) [ (Owes) (Is owed) [(P) /quoteright {-0.08 Kern} (d?)] ]
] def
/AccountingColumnRelativeWidths [ 4 4 4 4 4 1 ] def
/AccountingExtraRows [ () (Total) () ] defI would suggest it should not be. Several reasons:jdaw1 wrote:As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.
Sure. But what should it be?
Translated into post-tasting speak:PhilW wrote:- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (I know, I said it already, but it's the most important reason).
I'm not sure it's such a bad thing. I agree this is only really relevant for the bigger tastings with an imbalance in bottle provision - the sheet can be an optional, like many others in the software. It is true that attempting the calculations during, or at the end of the tasting could lead to error, however that is not caused by having a sheet available. It happens because 13 or 14 people are standing around with cash/cards in their hand trying to be helpful and make a fair contribution. Sheet or no sheet, Tom found himself needing to undertake difficult maths at a less that ideal time - the sheet could only have helped I believe! And there is nothing to stop gentlemanly contribution continuing, which is always appreciatedPhilW wrote:I would suggest it should not be. Several reasons:jdaw1 wrote:As the 1975 horizontal was ending, Tom was calculating the damage. Some people had brought Port, most hadn’t, and there was the cost of the food. Tom looked up from his scribbling and asked that, to help do this, there be an accounting page.
Sure. But what should it be?
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (note the accuracy of voting summations).
- This is only really relevant for larger tastings where either a large amount of wine comes from a subset of the individuals, or there is significant disparity due to some bringing much older wines. In previous tastings (at least some of those I have organised) some people have been very generous in providing their (significant) contribution either as "if this covers me, I don't want anything more for it" or at very low cost. Such gentlemanly behaviour is appreciated and should not be discouraged (and yes I think group analysis might do so).
- Given such variations, a spreadsheet is more reliable.
- During a tasting is not the best time to do the calculation (I know, I said it already, but it's the most important reason).
flash_uk wrote:the sheet can be an optional, like many others in the software.
There would also have to be administrative parameters such as PageOrderingAccounting, and perhaps others.jdaw1, in editing his post four above, wrote:……Code: Select all
/AccountingNumCopies 1 def
AccountingNumCopies: Inserted following Flash’s suggestion three posts below.
PhilW wrote:… not the best time to do the calculation …
… a spreadsheet is more reliable…
I agree with both of you.DRT wrote:… should …
flash_uk wrote:… optional…
… Sheet or no sheet, Tom found himself needing to undertake difficult maths at a less that ideal time - the sheet could only have helped …
I agree that this is alien to Planet Should, and really belongs on Asteroid Helpful. Which is a yes, partly grudging. Would it be sensible for the default to be that it appears if the length of Names is ≥7?uncle tom wrote:If one has all the numbers to hand in advance, then a computation at a sober moment is preferable, but that's only possible at a minority of events - the food bill is usually variable, and late additions and deletions to the wine list are not uncommon.
A simple computation sheet would therefore assist..
Why the conditional mood? With very few exceptions†, we do attempt to “sort it out on the night”. It has been suggested that if the Accounting page exists, we would attempt it neither more nor less often — i.e., it would remain “the normal behaviour” — but might be done more accurately.DRT wrote:"I'll sort it out on the night" could become the normal behaviour.
For the verticals, in which a minority of bottles were the majority of the cost, accounting needs more attention. We seem to have been doing horizontals recently.DRT wrote:Admittedly, I have not been to many tastings recently. Normal behaviour for this part of the organisation appears to have changed.
The matter is settled democratically, by a weighted vote, in which my vote is the only one with non-zero weight. Good reasoning is what matters; not whether you will organise a tasting.DRT wrote:As I am unlikely to organise a major tasting in the foreseeable future my view on the matter is of little or no significance.
Correct. My home printer isn’t happy, and I wanted to see a page — which has resulted in some minor improvements to the aesthetic.flash_uk wrote:Presumably with 4 people at the test tasting, it was not put to use?
. As a test Eric Menchen printed this test PDF (which has pages of 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, and 21 glasses), and has posted photographs of glasses on these 17″×11″ pages. Answer: sixteen.Surely this depends on which style of glasses are used?jdaw1 wrote:How many glasses can sensibly go on one sheet of /USL2 = US Ledger = 17″×11″? This has been discussed on
Yes.DRT wrote:Surely this depends on which style of glasses are used?
[url=http://fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?p=127383#p127383]On :ftlop2014:[/url] Eric Menchen wrote:I used a Schott Zwiesel SIZA Port Wine Glass. I think this the same as an IVDP glass. It has a squared stem with a notch in it. The base diamter is 2¾", whereas the bowl appears to have a maximum diameter of 2½".