ThePortForum.com

DRT wrote:Are you certain it isn't Silval or Colheita?

Yes, labels/bottles are consistent w those of the regular bottling.

I am surprised about the diffidence with which you greet a deal on port. Would you feel the same had you bought them at auction or is it just retailers you feel sorry for? Derek made reference to Berrys mis-pricing some SW97 on the thread on retail port pricing, I detected no mixed feelings there.

I know it is not an attractive quality but I enjoy a bargain and want to share my joy with others, even to the extent of crowing a bit. I think I detect this sentiment in others.

From the man who recently picked up a couple more Warre 1970 from a shop for £35 without a moments pause.

PopulusTremula wrote:slightly embarrassed about my own greed, thus prompting the question: what obligations, moral, legal or otherwise, does a buyer have to (i) inform the seller of a potential pricing error and (ii) refrain from "hitting the offer" so to speak?

1. One ‘lifts’ an offer; one ‘hits’ a bid.

2. This subject was mentioned in the FTLoP thread entitled Pricing errors, check the stickers on the bottles at the SAQ.

jdaw1 wrote:

PopulusTremula wrote:slightly embarrassed about my own greed, thus prompting the question: what obligations, moral, legal or otherwise, does a buyer have to (i) inform the seller of a potential pricing error and (ii) refrain from "hitting the offer" so to speak?

1. One ‘lifts’ an offer; one ‘hits’ a bid.

2. This subject was mentioned in the FTLoP thread entitled Pricing errors, check the stickers on the bottles at the SAQ.

Re 1: Thank you, now one will not forget what is lifted vs what is hit.

Re 2: Trust me to bring up what is essentially old hat. Note to self issued and plastered across forehead.

PopulusTremula wrote:Re 2: Trust me to bring up what is essentially old hat. Note to self issued and plastered across forehead.

Not a criticism, merely a link. We might agree or disagree or extend the content of the previous discussion.

LGTrotter wrote:I am surprised about the diffidence with which you greet a deal on port. Would you feel the same had you bought them at auction or is it just retailers you feel sorry for? Derek made reference to Berrys mis-pricing some SW97 on the thread on retail port pricing, I detected no mixed feelings there.

I know it is not an attractive quality but I enjoy a bargain and want to share my joy with others, even to the extent of crowing a bit. I think I detect this sentiment in others.

From the man who recently picked up a couple more Warre 1970 from a shop for £35 without a moments pause.

As you can imagine, I am no different from most people in that I welcome a bargain. My question is more about when a bargain becomes something more unsavoury. It is likely that there is no single line in the sand as preferences are individual and circumstances differ. My recent transaction came close enough for me to ask myself the question where my line is.

jdaw1 wrote:

PopulusTremula wrote:Re 2: Trust me to bring up what is essentially old hat. Note to self issued and plastered across forehead.

Not a criticism, merely a link. We might agree or disagree or extend the content of the previous discussion.

Not taken as such. Thanks for pointing me to the thread in the other place.

PopulusTremula wrote:My question is more about when a bargain becomes something more unsavoury.

That must have been a monumental bargain. Congratulations again, times three.

PopulusTremula wrote:My question is more about when a bargain becomes something more unsavoury.

It is uncomfortable to see affluent travellers arguing with relatively impoverished locals about nugatory amounts of money. But I think most London wine merchants can take the hit of your half dozen without calling in the receivers.

That you raise this point says a good deal about your (sorry, here comes a terrible cliche) moral compass.

Well said Owen. Succinct and clear as ever.

And correct.

LGTrotter wrote:

PopulusTremula wrote:My question is more about when a bargain becomes something more unsavoury.

It is uncomfortable to see affluent travellers arguing with relatively impoverished locals about nugatory amounts of money. But I think most London wine merchants can take the hit of your half dozen without calling in the receivers.

That you raise this point says a good deal about your (sorry, here comes a terrible cliche) moral compass.

djewesbury wrote:Well said Owen. Succinct and clear as ever.

And correct.

Hear, hear.

Bag it and leave the shop, you have nothing to feel guilty about, especially because you do.

Think of this point. Most wine merchants price bottles when they arrive at their store based on the listed invoice which came with said bottles. Most likely someone gave your wine merchant a very good deal and he is simply passing it along.

Case in point. I once special ordered some very rare expensive dry wines from a store I dealt with a lot. Bottles arrived, I arrived to pickup. Employee I knew rang up and I told him the price was wrong, being way too cheap, below normal wholesale. He told me that was marked up appropriated to what they paid. I asked him to double check, being the nice guy I was (a moment of weakness perhaps?). He returned and showed me the invoice. I paid a tiny sum for some very tasty and highly scored wines.

The above posts are all good and rational arguments which provide a substantial palliative effect on this mental itch of mine which I shall stop picking at henceforth. I'm sure that when the first bottle is uncorked in 10 years time, i will have learnt to love any lingering scar tissue.

LGTrotter wrote:It is uncomfortable to see affluent travellers arguing with relatively impoverished locals about nugatory amounts of money.

My heart agrees with this.

But if the foreigners are throwing money around on a scale that dominates the local economy, then few locals will undertake other productive activities: factories, efficient farming for export, R&D, etc. The economy becomes dominated by the whims of the rich by nationality of birth. There are countries that have failed to make the most of their potential for similar reasons.

jdaw1 wrote:

LGTrotter wrote:It is uncomfortable to see affluent travellers arguing with relatively impoverished locals about nugatory amounts of money.

My heart agrees with this.

But if the foreigners are throwing money around on a scale that dominates the local economy, then few locals will undertake other productive activities: factories, efficient farming for export, R&D, etc. The economy becomes dominated by the whims of the rich by nationality of birth. There are countries that have failed to make the most of their potential for similar reasons.

This is reductio ad absurdam, simply because you and Owen are talking on such polar scales (you the scale of dominating an entire economy, he the scale of nasty grasping individuals who just want something cheap cheaper).
That said, could you illustrate your point with the examples you had in mind?

6 Graham's Crusted 1998 from Sainsbury's, currently 25% off when buying 6 assorted bottles.

DaveRL wrote:6 Graham's Crusted 1998 from Sainsbury's, currently 25% off when buying 6 assorted bottles.

Thanks for the nod. I bought quite a few of these a little while back, but a dozen more couldn't hurt. I have started buying these as an alternative to the Tesco's own 1994 which has been my standard cellar defender for some years. I think the Graham is better by a margin.

12 bottles of the 2011 Niepoort Crusted

A mixed dozen comprising 4 Graham 85, 4 Warre 80, 3 Dow 1977 (not sure about this one) and a Fonseca 83, just to try.

A good mornings work.

Why the Dow 77? There's taking a punt and then there's throwing good money away..

djewesbury wrote:Why the Dow 77? There's taking a punt and then there's throwing good money away..

Just read the tasting notes with a sinking heart...

*Ron Manager face when asked why his team have lost ten weeks on the trot*

2 x 2009 Niepoort Porto Late Bottled Vintage
1 x 2003 Kopke Porto Late Bottled Vintage
1x 1988 Caves Messias Porto Late Bottled Vintage Quinta do Cachão
1 x 2001 Niepoort Porto Colheita Port

6 x 2010 Filipa Pato Fortificado Espirito de Baga

4 x Sandeman 70 in mag
6 x Sandeman 20YO
& 1 x Ch. Chasse Spleen 2000 on eBay.de!

LGTrotter wrote:

djewesbury wrote:Why the Dow 77? There's taking a punt and then there's throwing good money away..

Just read the tasting notes with a sinking heart...

I did sort through the pile and rejected any with iffy capsules, of which there were not a few.

LGTrotter wrote:

LGTrotter wrote:

djewesbury wrote:Why the Dow 77? There's taking a punt and then there's throwing good money away..

Just read the tasting notes with a sinking heart...

I did sort through the pile and rejected any with iffy capsules, of which there were not a few.

I was going to say "at least when it is good, it is delicious; hope for the best " - then I saw your implication that they came from a batch with lots of failed capsules/leaks...? Eek!

Not many, but enough to make me check. Spur of the moment buying is never wise, but looking on the bright side I've enjoyed the 77s more than most people seem to.

1994 Offley Boa Vista x 24. Nickolls and Perks are currently selling these from a batch of 25 cases they acquired from another retailer. Price inc. duty and VAT is £312 per case (£26 per bottle) in case others are interested. Singles are also available.

OBV 1994

6 x 1976 Krohn Colheita in order to have properly labeled bottles. Curiously, 3 were bottled in 2011 and 3 were bottled in 2013.

Just bought 2 cases of Grahams 1977 magnums.
Going home to Denmark together with Fonseca 27,66,70,77,85,97 mags, noval 55, Taylor 1970, Grahams 1970, sandeman 70,77, (they were cheap), croft 70 (cheap...), QH94 (it was even more cheap) and 5 cases of Sauternes.

Look out for them on a Danish auction, as im pretty sure my wife will kill me, when she sees the bankaccount..... i guess the police finds my dead corpse in a month or so.... So port should be back on market 3-4 months from now.....

Cheers!

Niels Strøjer

Equivalent of 96 varied bottles arriving at the house on Friday, many purchased quite some time ago! Just topped up this delivery with 4 Chasse Spleen 2000 at a very competitive price.
Don't think I need to buy any more wine or port for a while

EDIT: I may have written the last line, but I haven't read it…

djewesbury wrote:Equivalent of 96 varied bottles arriving at the house on Friday, many purchased quite some time ago! Just topped up this delivery with 4 Chasse Spleen 2000 at a very competitive price.
Don't think I need to buy any more wine or port for a while

EDIT: I may have written the last line, but I haven't read it…

How did I manage to secure 3 lots of 2xG85 at Bigwood's for £36 / btl all in, when I'd just written the above post?
I must STOP buying port (x100).

djewesbury wrote:How did I manage to secure 3 lots of 2xG85 at Bigwood's for £36 / btl all in, when I'd just written the above post?
I must STOP buying port (x100).

Not if you keep finding prices like those, you mustn't! Nice score.

Glenn E. wrote:

djewesbury wrote:How did I manage to secure 3 lots of 2xG85 at Bigwood's for £36 / btl all in, when I'd just written the above post?
I must STOP buying port (x100).

Not if you keep finding prices like those, you mustn't! Nice score.

Sask liquor dropped the price on a bunch of ports. Picked up:

12 Fonseca 2011 @ 100 CAD/bt
12 Croft 2011 @ 90 CAD/bt
6 Warre 1980 @ 72 CAD/bt (Read some good things on these on here and on FTLOP)

I succumbed to 6 Vesuvio 04 from the Wine Society. Easy storage and I thought a reasonable price (£36) given it has probably been well treated.

Good man! Did they come in a nice Vesuvio case? Contemplating these myself.

I hope they will come in a lovely case, I will have to wait and see. I went for the easy option of storage: I may incur wrath if another Vesuvio box appears here too soon after the last ones!

Barros 1948
Brilhante 1927 (anyone heard about that one ? Should be somekind of a farmer related to Taylors)
Taylors 1977 magnum
Taylors 2009 and 2011 dmag

Must stop now, cellar is full, and has been for the last 3-400 bottles. But people keeps telling me "buy older ports" and Chinese will buy port, when they realise what it tastes like. And with Novals high prices, they will see ports soon, so buy port now, before it explodes in prices. (and everytime i go online and "clicks" a couple of cases more.
Anyone else got that illness ?????

Kind regards

Stroejer

DaveRL wrote:I hope they will come in a lovely case, I will have to wait and see. I went for the easy option of storage: I may incur wrath if another Vesuvio box appears here too soon after the last ones!

Funnily enough, I keep waiting for the "you've bought more port??" moment and it never comes. "Well, other people spend their money on clothes or records or shoes.." says Rachel. What can I say? Other than explaining that we have no children..!

Strojer wrote: Anyone else got that illness ?????

Yes. Everyone here.

C da Silva Dalva Golden White Colheita 1971
C da Silva Presidential Colheita 1967

I'm quite proud of myself. In the last month I have bought 4 bottles of Champagne (keeps the wife happy), 1 bottle of white wine (keeps the wife happy), 6 bottles of red wine (keeps the wife happy) and only 1 bottle of Port.

Haven't I been good!

AHB wrote:I'm quite proud of myself. In the last month I have bought 4 bottles of Champagne (keeps the wife happy), 1 bottle of white wine (keeps the wife happy), 6 bottles of red wine (keeps the wife happy) and only 1 bottle of Port.

Haven't I been good!

You have! But have you also counted in all the Port you bought for immediate consumption?

I have been bad; 24bts of Dow 1970, 2bts of Niepoort Pota 1970, 6bts of red Burgundy, a mixed six pack case of Rocchioli wines as well as some rare South African White wine were added over the last two weeks.

At least my shortage of 1970 vintage ports I tackeled with some rigor.

WS1 wrote:

AHB wrote:I'm quite proud of myself. In the last month I have bought 4 bottles of Champagne (keeps the wife happy), 1 bottle of white wine (keeps the wife happy), 6 bottles of red wine (keeps the wife happy) and only 1 bottle of Port.

Haven't I been good!

You have! But have you also counted in all the Port you bought for immediate consumption?

Grumble. No I haven't counted those - there have been four other bottles: Churchill 1994, Offley 1977, Croft 2011 and Borges Muito Velho...

I confess. My name's AHB and I can't stop buying port.

I am now the proud owner of two bottles of Quinta do Noval Nacional 2004.

AHB wrote:I confess. My name's AHB and I can't stop buying port.

In your defense, you have only been trying to stop buying port for half a decade. I am sure you will get the knack of it eventually

AHB wrote:I confess. My name's AHB and I can't stop buying port.

I am now the proud owner of two bottles of Quinta do Noval Nacional 2004.

The first sentence indicates a certain shiftyness rather than pride. If it is any comfort I like hearing about what others buy, especially when I am going through a bit of a drought. Vicarious pleasures.

Sorry to hear there's a drought in Somerset now. You really get the worst if it there.

I think I am going to buy less port for a while: I've bought quite a lot this year and I'd like to see how long it takes to dent that lot. This doesn't prevent me going down to Sainsbury's (the new vouchers arrived) and combining my various discounts to stock up on GC98.

DRT wrote:

AHB wrote:I confess. My name's AHB and I can't stop buying port.

In your defense, you have only been trying to stop buying port for half a decade. I am sure you will get the knack of it eventually

I am quite proud of myself. This year I have bought many fewer bottles of port than I have taken out of my stocks and I am on track to take out the planned number. This is the first year in my records when my port collection will have shrunk - a very odd feeling!

AHB wrote:This is the first year in my records when my port collection will have shrunk - a very odd feeling!

I think this would trouble me. But it ebbs and flows, as long as the overall trajectory is heading in the right direction. I fear I may be straying into the 'how much is enough' debate again.