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Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:46 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by jdaw1
There will be three numbers, and I am instructing somebody to take the average of the better two of them. Or should that be the best two of them?

So if the numbers are 10, 11 and 12, the result should be Average(11, 12) = 11½.

Better two of three, or best two of three?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 13:23 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by djewesbury
jdaw1 wrote:There will be three numbers, and I am instructing somebody to take the average of the better two of them. Or should that be the best two of them?

So if the numbers are 10, 11 and 12, the result should be Average(11, 12) = 11½.

Better two of three, or best two of three?
Why is higher better? Same problem, different word. Just wondering.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 14:30 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by jdaw1
djewesbury wrote:Why is higher better?
I should have said that the context makes very obvious that higher = better.

But the same question could be asked of ‟higher two of three” versus ‟highest two of three”.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 14:41 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by PhilW
jdaw1 wrote:There will be three numbers, and I am instructing somebody to take the average of the better two of them. Or should that be the best two of them?

So if the numbers are 10, 11 and 12, the result should be Average(11, 12) = 11½.

Better two of three, or best two of three?
Best two of three. Two of them may be better than the other, but you have select the best two (i.e. better is always a comparative between at least two elements or groups, while best is a single element or group based on a criteria).

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 14:44 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by djewesbury
jdaw1 wrote:But the same question could be asked of ‟higher two of three” versus ‟highest two of three”.
hence
djewesbury wrote:Same problem, different word.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 16:44 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by Glenn E.
PhilW wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:There will be three numbers, and I am instructing somebody to take the average of the better two of them. Or should that be the best two of them?

So if the numbers are 10, 11 and 12, the result should be Average(11, 12) = 11½.

Better two of three, or best two of three?
Best two of three. Two of them may be better than the other, but you have select the best two (i.e. better is always a comparative between at least two elements or groups, while best is a single element or group based on a criteria).
My choice as well. Possibly even "best two of the three."

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 20:36 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by djewesbury
Glenn E. wrote:
PhilW wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:There will be three numbers, and I am instructing somebody to take the average of the better two of them. Or should that be the best two of them?

So if the numbers are 10, 11 and 12, the result should be Average(11, 12) = 11½.

Better two of three, or best two of three?
Best two of three. Two of them may be better than the other, but you have select the best two (i.e. better is always a comparative between at least two elements or groups, while best is a single element or group based on a criteria).
My choice as well. Possibly even "best two of the three."
I also agree with this. I think the choice is made clearer if you increase the number of the pool from 3 and see what you would do in those circumstances.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 20:55 Thu 13 Feb 2014
by jdaw1
Which agrees with my (formerly tentative) preference. Thank you.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 17:31 Sun 16 Feb 2014
by djewesbury
ImageHow much would a completely fresh lobster salad be?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 18:20 Sun 16 Feb 2014
by PhilW
djewesbury wrote:ImageHow much would a completely fresh lobster salad be?
You could also ask them how many salads you get with each lobster portion, too.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 18:35 Sun 16 Feb 2014
by DRT
You neglected to mention the fig problem. Was that deliberate?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 17:56 Mon 17 Feb 2014
by Alex Bridgeman
I prefer the thought of the 80z burger. I'm hoping the corrected menu should read 80 oz burger.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 21:47 Mon 17 Feb 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:You neglected to mention the fig problem. Was that deliberate?
The fig problem was a given. It was the fig problem that allowed all the other peculiarities to come into our purview.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 01:32 Tue 18 Feb 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:You neglected to mention the fig problem. Was that deliberate?
The fig problem was a given. It was the fig problem that allowed all the other peculiarities to come into our purview.
I get that, but Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion, not mass murder, smuggling and extortion. It is important to include the lesser crimes in the charge just in case :wink:

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 21:09 Tue 11 Mar 2014
by jdaw1
Of course that should have been, even if typed using a phone, “an Amicus Curia”.

Hopefully, in the spirit of banks’ self-reporting of benchmark crimes, my self-reporting will result in a milder punishment.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 00:20 Wed 12 Mar 2014
by djewesbury
jdaw1 wrote:
Of course that should have been, even if typed using a phone, “an Amicus Curia”.

Hopefully, in the spirit of banks’ self-reporting of benchmark crimes, my self-reporting will result in a milder punishment.
I thought Amicus Curiae?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 08:25 Wed 12 Mar 2014
by jdaw1
djewesbury wrote:I thought Amicus Curiae?
Wikipedia agrees that further penance is required. For reasons of stupidity and English word order, I was attempting to singularise the adjective. Doh. Sackcloth and ashes.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 14:49 Mon 17 Mar 2014
by jdaw1
Messrs Christie and Manson, in their splendid catalogue of the “Interesting and Valuable Collection of Antiquities … The Property of The Commandant Barbetti” to be auctioned on 1 June 1857, wrote:
Scarabs, Mounted in Gold and Silver.
147 …
Scarabs, In Cornelian, Mounted.
162 …
Scarabæi, In Green Jasper, (not Mounted).
408 …
Scarabs, In Soft Stone and Porcelain.
442 …
Scarabæi, In Green Jasper, Mounted in Silver.
460 …
Scarabæi, Mounted In Gold.
462 …
Note to self: pictures 17714 to 17719.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 10:54 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by djewesbury
This is a curious one. In Dorothy L. Sayers's The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club (the one, you will remember, with a rather nice description of the Cockburn 1886), the plural of a family name is always printed with an apostrophe, viz:
Image
Now this is done with such consistency that it can't be a typo every time. Sayers was also quite the grammarian so not given to casual solecisms. Is this some sort of strange slang possessive, as in "I've just been to the family of The Rushworth"? Rather like clan chieftains might be referred to as, for instance, The O'Rahilly, or The Turnbull?
Any thoughts?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:02 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by DRT
Please reproduce the whole sentence to provide context.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:20 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by djewesbury
'Waffles! What have you been doing, old boy?'
'Interviewing the Rushworth's,' said Waffles, edging his way into a chair by Hardy.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:21 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by djewesbury
The context gives no clue. It's the same elsewhere. Any time a plural family name would ordinarily be used to indicate the entire family, an annoying apostrophe lopes inter.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 12:51 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by DRT
Perhaps it is consistently incompetent type-setting / proof-reading?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 13:12 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by jdaw1
Nowadays we might write of the 1890s, whereas then they would have written of the 1890’s. Is this similar?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 14:04 Sun 06 Apr 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:Perhaps it is consistently incompetent type-setting / proof-reading?
jdaw1 wrote:Nowadays we might write of the 1890s, whereas then they would have written of the 1890’s. Is this similar?
Of both suggestions, I prefer the first. This is a rather cheap, rather old, paperback imprint. The type isn't even set square on the page. What puzzles me is why they would specially commission a bad set of the type. Surely they'd have just bought in the galleys and printed from them. Or maybe that's not how it worked.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 20:59 Fri 11 Apr 2014
by jdaw1
[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=74063#p74063]Here[/url] SushiNorth wrote:Any bottle, provide there is an 8 in it's vintage.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 21:32 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by DRT
Glenn E. wrote:My totally inadequate digital camera is charging just in case the blood moon is visible in 2 hours. Tonight would be the night for me to have Derek's telescope if the internets is to be believed.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 22:18 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by Glenn E.
DRT wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:My totally inadequate digital camera is charging just in case the blood moon is visible in 2 hours. Tonight would be the night for me to have Derek's telescope if the internets is to be believed.
Not a crime. "The internets" is fairly common usage, at least in the US, to imply that blind faith in anything you read on the internet is unwise.

Note that in this case, the internets was not to be believed. Despite the good forecast, it rained and so I was unable to view the blood moon.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 22:20 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by DRT
Guilty as charged.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 22:20 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by djewesbury
Glenn E. wrote:
DRT wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:My totally inadequate digital camera is charging just in case the blood moon is visible in 2 hours. Tonight would be the night for me to have Derek's telescope if the internets is to be believed.
Not a crime. "The internets" is fairly common usage, at least in the US, to imply that blind faith in anything you read on the internet is unwise.
Agreed. Humorous and intentional. Not a crime. Which one of us etc etc Let he who is without etc etc.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 22:25 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by Glenn E.
DRT wrote:Guilty as charged.
Read on the internets, therefore obviously not true.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 22:40 Tue 15 Apr 2014
by DRT
Is it too late to claim that Bush-isms should be considered default crimes?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 10:48 Mon 05 May 2014
by djewesbury
PhilW, [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8323#p75206]here[/url], wrote: […] last seen in it's prime at the Bell, in a photo amongst all it's friends; I'm hoping it found a well-cared for resting home with a new pub-owner.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 12:38 Mon 05 May 2014
by PhilW
djewesbury wrote:
PhilW, [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8323#p75206]here[/url], wrote: […] last seen in it's prime at the Bell, in a photo amongst all it's friends; I'm hoping it found a well-cared for resting home with a new pub-owner.
Damn, sackcloth everywhere.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 17:05 Mon 05 May 2014
by PhilW
Our local paper this week mentions an event where a visiting chef will be creating a dish "going back to his routes"; I suspect it is too much to hope that this is some reference to a previous career as a lorry driver...

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:15 Sun 11 May 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:23 Sun 11 May 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
More of a dialect thing than a crime - certainly not worth the lead pellets to the knees.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:28 Sun 11 May 2014
by flash_uk
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
I'm not so sure a crime has been committed here...the knock on the door is singular, the new knees plural, however the new knees come as a composite bundle with the knock on the door, with the bundle able to be treated as a singular.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:30 Sun 11 May 2014
by djewesbury
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
I'm not so sure a crime has been committed here...the knock on the door is singular, the new knees plural, however the new knees come as a composite bundle with the knock on the door, with the bundle able to be treated as a singular.
Whether or not DRT committed a crime, you certainly have. Sophistry of this kind is clearly injurious to the euphony of the tongue.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:36 Sun 11 May 2014
by flash_uk
djewesbury wrote:
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
I'm not so sure a crime has been committed here...the knock on the door is singular, the new knees plural, however the new knees come as a composite bundle with the knock on the door, with the bundle able to be treated as a singular.
Whether or not DRT committed a crime, you certainly have. Sophistry of this kind is clearly injurious to the euphony of the tongue.
Please direct further correspondence to my solicitor (Derek).

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:39 Sun 11 May 2014
by DRT
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
I'm not so sure a crime has been committed here...the knock on the door is singular, the new knees plural, however the new knees come as a composite bundle with the knock on the door, with the bundle able to be treated as a singular.
Whether or not DRT committed a crime, you certainly have. Sophistry of this kind is clearly injurious to the euphony of the tongue.
Please direct further correspondence to my solicitor (Derek).
Case dismissed.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 23:44 Sun 11 May 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
flash_uk wrote:
djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:… the knock on the door and some new knees is never far away.
I'm not so sure a crime has been committed here...the knock on the door is singular, the new knees plural, however the new knees come as a composite bundle with the knock on the door, with the bundle able to be treated as a singular.
Whether or not DRT committed a crime, you certainly have. Sophistry of this kind is clearly injurious to the euphony of the tongue.
Please direct further correspondence to my solicitor (Derek).
Case dismissed.
It doesn't work like that. You're both guilty. I refer this to the higher authority. Or at least his great big avatar.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 00:19 Mon 12 May 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:I refer this to the higher authority. Or at least his great big avatar.
Most disturbing. Is it too late to vote Raving Loony to avoid being associated with the Creepy Big Head Party?

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 13:45 Mon 12 May 2014
by flash_uk
djewesbury, [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=75320#p75320]here[/url], wrote:Too me this is a powerful expression of the beauty of democracy.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 15:58 Mon 12 May 2014
by djewesbury
Autocorrected solecisms don't count! See TPF v Various, above.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 18:19 Mon 12 May 2014
by djewesbury
Autocorrected solecisms don't count! See TPF v Various, above.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:09 Tue 13 May 2014
by SCP-DFF
Is this more pedantic than we need to be? C'mon geeks. Lemme hear your thoughts on this one. My view? It's just silly.

http://www.businessinsider.com/commas-i ... tes-2014-5

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 11:29 Tue 13 May 2014
by djewesbury
SCP-DFF wrote:Is this more pedantic than we need to be? C'mon geeks. Lemme hear your thoughts on this one. My view? It's just silly.

http://www.businessinsider.com/commas-i ... tes-2014-5
This is just silly. You are right as usual.
I think that if we are going to have such things as 'Oxford commas', and accept that these are a matter of personal taste or style, then we must also be able to accept that the separation of verbal phrases in compound predicates (!) is likewise a question of the author's or editor's own taste.
If I were Gus Lubin and attempting to defend the English language from depredation, I might start elsewhere. Like anywhere but the USA.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 16:58 Tue 13 May 2014
by Glenn E.
No, I agree with the author. All of those examples look wrong to me.

I do not claim perfection, and I am sure that I mis-use commas at least occasionally, but I do try to use them correctly. There's no comma between John eating a slice and drinking a bottle, nor should there be.

Re: Apostrophe crimes

Posted: 17:15 Tue 13 May 2014
by DRT
It is interesting that only one half of the house of Wiseman has posted here on the comma debate.

I agree, and disagree with much of what has been said.